I think we'll leave it here for now, then if the results get posted here as well as tweeted, we can move it to the gear review area after it's completed.
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Wayne Fox
Workshop Member
As far as resolution is concerned and detail, I don't think a 20x30 print will show much ... the d800 should handle this without any problems at all. I wouldn't expect anything different than when LuLa tested a G10 against a MFDB.
I guess what I'd like to see from all these "tests" everyone is doing is what happens with a "big" print. 24"x30" is my test print size, my minimum print of my top edition of images is 40" in the longest dimension. So what happens when you decide to print a 60" or 72" print? Even an 80" print with the IQ180 is pretty good most of the time. How does the d800 do?
That is correct. But in reality it is the combo I use for about 90% of my compositions to begin with. The conclusion that can be inferred is that for the rest, I feel I can make do with the D800 and it's larger stable of lenses. Note too, that selling my other tech lenses more than covered the cost of my entire suite of pretty choice Nikon lenses...
Sensor+ on the IQ180 is 20MP.
P
petercoxphoto
Guest
Hi folks -
We spent the day testing the cameras, and I'm currently printing the 30x20" test prints, all 13 of them. We'll probably be making two 40x60" prints for the most closely matched pair of images. We will be announcing the results live tomorrow at 4pm here in Ireland, 11am on the East Coast and 8am on the West Coast. We'd love it if you joined us.
It'll be announced via a Google Hangout. To join in, in Google Plus, add Neil McShane to your circles (https://plus.google.com/116143938603101885158/posts) and you should receive the hangout invite.
Join us and ask any questions you want about the comparison, either via the chat option in Google+ during the hangout or via Twitter. The hashtag to use is #bigtestresults.
Just click on the hangout invitation in your Google+ home feed when we go live.
Please spread the word.
Cheers,
Peter
We spent the day testing the cameras, and I'm currently printing the 30x20" test prints, all 13 of them. We'll probably be making two 40x60" prints for the most closely matched pair of images. We will be announcing the results live tomorrow at 4pm here in Ireland, 11am on the East Coast and 8am on the West Coast. We'd love it if you joined us.
It'll be announced via a Google Hangout. To join in, in Google Plus, add Neil McShane to your circles (https://plus.google.com/116143938603101885158/posts) and you should receive the hangout invite.
Join us and ask any questions you want about the comparison, either via the chat option in Google+ during the hangout or via Twitter. The hashtag to use is #bigtestresults.
Just click on the hangout invitation in your Google+ home feed when we go live.
Please spread the word.
Cheers,
Peter
EH21
Member
Jack,
Just curious and hope you don't mind me asking, but how different would your kit be if a) more wide lenses played well with the big Dalsa chipped backs and/or b) the DF body and system were improved? I guess I'm really asking about how much the convenience of use weighed into your decision to sell off most of your MF gear vs image quality.
Eric
Thats what I've been waiting for too! It should be very be interesting as will the posted results for the D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison.
Dave (D&A)
subrata1965
Member
wentbackward
Member
You might be interested that Ming Thien compares the Leica MM with the D800.
The Medium Format / Large Format versus Leica discussion has been going on since the 30's. I don't see why Nikon going from 24 -> 36 MP in a Nikon body radically changes anything to be honest and I think Ming Thiens comparisons raises some interesting questions when you consider he's comparing 18 to 36 MP.
The Medium Format / Large Format versus Leica discussion has been going on since the 30's. I don't see why Nikon going from 24 -> 36 MP in a Nikon body radically changes anything to be honest and I think Ming Thiens comparisons raises some interesting questions when you consider he's comparing 18 to 36 MP.
Ming Thien's review is only relevant if you're a die hard B/W shooter. It goes to show how much resolution you can gain by removing the bayer filter, let alone spending vast sums of money more on the new Summicron and Leica body – which in itself is what? nearly double the price of the D800E?
Jorgen Udvang
Subscriber Member
I completely agree. The big change for Nikon came with the D3X, a superb camera in every way. Unfortunately, it was (is) almost 3 times as expensive as the competition and very close to MF DB, so I have a feeling most photographers disqualified it from the start. The resolution advantage going from 24 to 36MP isn't dramatic in any way, but a price drop of 60% is.
P
petercoxphoto
Guest
We've just produced a pair of 40x60" prints comparing the D800E with Nikon 24mm PC-E and the IQ180 and the Schneider 35mm. The results are very interesting indeed - if you can make the hangout at 4pm Irish time, 11am Eastern, you'd find it worthwhile I think.
Add Neil McShane to your circles on Google Plus to receive the invite (https://plus.google.com/116143938603101885158).
Cheers,
Peter
Add Neil McShane to your circles on Google Plus to receive the invite (https://plus.google.com/116143938603101885158).
Cheers,
Peter
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Nor am I and I barely have time for this place to be honest. I don't surf much anymore.
manouch shirzad
Workshop & Subscriber Member
What is Google Plus? a new photo website.
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Manouch
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Manouch
P
petercoxphoto
Guest
Hi guys -
Sorry for the brief responses to this thread, but as you might imagine we've been incredibly busy with this test. We started yesterday morning at 9am, finished at around midnight and have been at it for about the same amount of time today.
We had the Google+ hangout and it was well attended, sorry if you tried to get on but found it was full.
I'll let you know the basic conclusion now, and will provide more details in a few days when we have the video live and the detailed article written up.
Essentially, at 40x60", the D800E with the 24mm PC-E lens is extremely close to the IQ180 with the 35mm Schneider on the Arca-Swiss. Close enough that at a 'normal' viewing distance of 4-5 feet, you can't tell which is which.
At close viewing, less than about 2 feet, the difference becomes apparent. But it is nowhere close to what you would expect.
In 20x30" prints, the difference is also apparent, but you have to be less than a foot from the print to tell.
I'm gobsmacked, to say the least.
Dynamic range is, as far as I can tell, at least equal between the cameras. Colour rendition appears to be better on the IQ180.
Bear in mind, the IQ180 we were testing is my own. We borrowed the D800 and D800E from friends and colleagues. So I'm giving this result as an IQ180 owner.
Cheers,
Peter
Sorry for the brief responses to this thread, but as you might imagine we've been incredibly busy with this test. We started yesterday morning at 9am, finished at around midnight and have been at it for about the same amount of time today.
We had the Google+ hangout and it was well attended, sorry if you tried to get on but found it was full.
I'll let you know the basic conclusion now, and will provide more details in a few days when we have the video live and the detailed article written up.
Essentially, at 40x60", the D800E with the 24mm PC-E lens is extremely close to the IQ180 with the 35mm Schneider on the Arca-Swiss. Close enough that at a 'normal' viewing distance of 4-5 feet, you can't tell which is which.
At close viewing, less than about 2 feet, the difference becomes apparent. But it is nowhere close to what you would expect.
In 20x30" prints, the difference is also apparent, but you have to be less than a foot from the print to tell.
I'm gobsmacked, to say the least.
Dynamic range is, as far as I can tell, at least equal between the cameras. Colour rendition appears to be better on the IQ180.
Bear in mind, the IQ180 we were testing is my own. We borrowed the D800 and D800E from friends and colleagues. So I'm giving this result as an IQ180 owner.
Cheers,
Peter
Presumably at 20x30, the IQ is being down-rezzed, and the D800E up-rezzed, whereas at 40x60, both are being up-rezzed.
How were the 40x60 files created?
More interesting (to me), is the relative lens performance. Anyone know how the Nikon 24 PC-E compares to the Canon 24 TS-E II? (wondering how an IQ180 on a HCam would perform here).
How were the 40x60 files created?
More interesting (to me), is the relative lens performance. Anyone know how the Nikon 24 PC-E compares to the Canon 24 TS-E II? (wondering how an IQ180 on a HCam would perform here).
40x60" would be 122 ppi for D800, 20x30" 245 ppi.
As a rule of thumb I usually think that going below 200 ppi for fine art prints is undesirable since one may start seeing pixel structures when nosing the print. If nosing quality is not needed (=wanted) we can quit doing high resolution photography right now. 10 megapixel is enough to make any picture good for "viewing distance".
Like most items with high quality, one really have to look closely to see any difference.
What would be interesting to know is if the D800 with PC-E 24 delivers sharp pixels all the way to the corner, and if IQ180 with the Schneider does the same.
Say if the Schneider is outresolved by the 80 megapixel IQ180 so the real resolution therefore is close to the 36 megapixel D800E that would be a shocking result. But if both deliver sharp pixels for their resolution then it is just up to the user to decide how many megapixels they need.
It is quite easy for any of us to test if we think we need 80 megapixels rather than 36, just do a crop test print of a imagined print size resulting in a certain ppi, look at it and see if we think it is sharp enough for the size. I've done that myself in great detail. What I find harder to test and find results for is if system XYZ can deliver sharp pixels corner to corner. It is one thing to have X megapixel sensor, another to have a lens that can make all those megapixels sharp so we get full use of them in a print. I was hoping to get that kind of questions answered from this test.
My guess would be that the PC-E 24 would not hold up 100% to the corners of the D800, and also the Schneider would have some problems on the IQ180 (therefore I suggested rodenstock digaron-w lenses).
Right on the money.:thumbup: I've done these tests.... I just downsample my IQ180 file to 36MP and print to the same size as my original file. Yes..... at five feet there is little difference and I'm printing to 40 inches in one direction on canvas. BUT..... everyone wants to walk into the print - its only natural. The difference then becomes very apparent. If the image contains high frequency it becomes lost with 36MP. There's only so much upsampling that can take place.... and I'm only talking about 40 inches....jeeez these guys are printing to 60 inches.
That would be the outer, outer limit for me with an IQ180 file.For me, the D800 file for high frequency is limited to 250ppi for upsampling which means that the outer limit for high frequency images is 30 inches in the long direction..... that's it for me! This is image specific..... so if I were shooting architectural detail - likes windows or doors - I might be able to print to 40 inches, but the subject matter is lower frequency which now takes up most of the image. Anyway..... my two cents.
Victor