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Thread: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

  1. #151
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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    I think landscape photography is not so much about lens look, I want a neutral rendering lens that is damn sharp corner-to-corner and which allows me to tilt and shift. It is almost always about maximizing DOF so out of focus rendering is not that important.

    Pretty easy to compare systems, sensors are now so good on both systems so it basically boils down to a resolution test and how much you think you need for a specific print size. (To me, the tilt-shift choices on D800 is a bit too poor/inflexible to be an attractive landscape camera when comparing to a tech cam with similar resolution.)

    In short DOF photography though, then lens look comes very much into play and it seems to me it is here the "MF magic" may be. I'd love to see some demonstrations of this.

    This fine portfolio of Marko Repse if I've guessed correctly is made much with RZ and Aptus 22, and to me there are many pictures in there that could be example of the special MF format look Marko Rep?e especially those images with quite well-defined but at the same time out of focus backgrounds. I don't know how these would look if made with a 35mm digital system though.

    MFDB had the best dynamic range until compared side-by-side with DSLRs with Sony Exmor sensors so I don't really dare to make any conclusions without side-by-side comparisons...

    I would be very happy if I can learn to see and appriciate the night and day difference that some people say exist. I may then actually get a minimal H system to my H back, and perhaps I do not have to be as worried about MFDB manufacturer's future like I am currently...

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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Used recently has been 21K on a P65+ with low mileage from dealers that is
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    I was shopping around for a P65+ at the beginning of this year. I found two available (one in UK, one in US) for between $18K and $19K. Can't recall the image counts.

    The UK one was with an authorized dealer. Can't remember where the US one was.

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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    The problem is that many people, myself included, don't have the ability to see a "night and day" difference, and by some reason it is never really demonstrated in side-by-side tests. Perhaps my eyes are bad, I don't know, that could be the case. I have no prestige in this. It is not only about spotting a difference, it also about thinking that the difference has any significant impact on image quality/look

    If it indeed is a night-and-day difference it would be a fantastic opportunity for MF marketing guys to show off this difference in their marketing material or on the web ("if you shoot with a DSLR it looks like this, but if you use our MF system it looks like this, tada see the night-and-day difference!").

    The D800 puts some more stress on this though so we're starting to see some interesting side-by-side tests. Perhaps we'll see something concentrated more on lens look further ahead.
    The reason why you don't see this in MF manufacturers marketing is because there is no significant difference. There was a big difference in 35mm vs medium format in the film days. This is because medium format included capture sizes that were vastly bigger than 24x36. One of the biggest limitations of MF digital is that it it limited to below 60x45mm

    With the rapid increase in 35mm DSLR quality the subtle difference between MF and 35mm DSLR has pretty much vanished. As sensor quality has improved enormously Nikon and Canon have followed up with significant lens improvements. Also the fact that they have multiple versions of most focal lengths means that the faster lenses are designed for a certain look while the slower ones for another.

    The Nikon 85mm 1.4G is a perfect example. It's an internal focusing system and the iris moves with the focusing group. This produces much nicer bokeh, fast focusing (due to internal focusing). Sealed lens design (keeps quality far longer). This is an expensive design, but is viable for Nikon because they have an alternative with the far less expensive 85mm 1.8G.

    The Nikon 85mm 1.4G has a look that isn't matched by MF offerings. The closest being the Hasselblad Fuji 100mm 2.2.


    Going back to the claimed special look of MF digital lenses..... if the difference were noticeable enough the medium format manufacturers would be publishing side by side comparisons. The reason they don't is because it's just not there anymore.

    I've said it before, but IMHO you are more empowered look wise with a combination of 35mm DSLR and a large MF film camera. Get yourself a d800E and a GX680 6x8 film camera or a 4x5 film camera and you will really have two significantly different looks. The larger capture areas combined with the look of film are something MF just can't do while the d800 can pretty much do what a MF digital can do but far more efficiently.
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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Honestly I shot these type of images for years and my Phase DF with a 110 mm LS would look exactly the same. Now given I worked on this a little harder in my raw processing with color editor , the net result would have been almost identical. I just posted this on the Nikon forum.

    This is for a friend of ours for a commercial portrait that she needs for her website so pretty corporate looking. But just wanted to show you the 200mm F2 lens at F7.1 and the fall off. Its heavily airbrushed as that is what she wanted. I'm still working it too. LOL

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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Marc,

    A bit of semantics: As one who's been in sales my entire life, I can assure you it isn't usually about money itself, it's almost always about the perceived VALUE. And we all have differing sets of values and differing weights we place on said values which form our individual perceptions...

    Cheers,
    No disagreement here Jack. I do grasp the notion of value, and understand the attraction of the D800. I am just pointing out that for some the look and feel of any given system may produce the perception of value ... as in "it is very valuable" if it fits with your personal vision or working requirements ... if it doesn't, then it has no value.

    I also grasp that the concept can work both ways ... some may not value what MFD provides, at least not at the price-point ... which is what I meant regarding "money".

    My original answer was simply lamenting the poster's notion of relegating digital backs to tech camera use, which IMO de-values the systems approach that makes MFD a viable cross application tool. If I could only use my H4D/60 back on a view camera, its value to me would be substantially reduced to the point that, quite frankly, I wouldn't buy one.

    So, I vote for the opposite ... the MFD systems must become even more diverse in application. For example, I'd love a smaller Hasselblad camera with dual shutter ability with an H AF mount , maybe a CMOS based smaller sensor ... which would further increase the system value.

    -Marc
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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Echoing Marc's points, I'd also wager that had Phase One got a DSLR body that only even matched, let alone surpassed the abilities of ANY of the current crop of full frame 35mm DSLRs then perhaps the eagerness to change to something like the D800 would be a lot less. That's where I think that Hasselblad and Phase One in particular really need to get their act together to keep the appeal of their whole systems vs the 'good enough' perceived advantages of the D800 and whatever follows shortly no doubt from everyone else next year.
    Ylem ...
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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Actually hasselblad published a side by side comparison back when the 1DsmkIII came out... In their Victor magazine.... Of course this was 21 vs 31 megapixels.... So one manufacturer of mf has published a direct comparison.... Whether they will do it again remains to be seen...

    No doubt you get mucho bang for the buck with the d800, but no medium format camera it is...
    Back when I had one series as main body, I had (and still have) a 5DII as back up... It s just not the same as a one series, just as my one series is not the same as my blad... And here I am talking about using it... Holding it... Working with it. And hanging a 200 f2 off the front of the 5D was no fun, it was good on the 1 series though...
    Talking of the 200, I sold mine to finance the hassy... Don't regret that move one little bit. even if Canon were to announce a 30plus megapixel camera...
    Oh and one other little point... When charging clients goody portions of wonga for a days work, I hate it when a board member pokes through my bag and noticing the 5D back up... "Oh, I got two of those" or "I bought one of those for my wife" ... Yes i have heard both! in Norway the 5Dmkiii and the d800, and even the 1Dx and the equivalent nikon are not out of reach for most enthusiasts.... Now not saying I splashed out on the hassy because of this, but it sure is nice to stop that kind of conversation dead in its tracks
    I really enjoy medium format, Film and digital, clients today expect digital, and it's great to be able to supply digital, but work the way I want to... With medium format...
    I am rambling again, lol so I will shut up... What I am trying to say I think, is its more to do with feelings than tech specs for me....
    Or, why do so many cab drivers here drive Mercedes? Sure a ford will do the job, but driver comfort s everything when sitting behind the wheel all day....
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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post

    Let's cut to the chase, it is about money. Period.

    -Marc
    Not at all. Not for me at least, and I suspect not for plenty of other folk.

    For me it's about focus. I have a have a cabinet groaningly full of stuff. IQ180, Phase DF, glass, Cambo, glass, M9, glass, 5DII, glass, GH2, glass, Nex7, glass, Fuji X100, Ricoh, somewhere in another home an entire Pentax DSLR system, blah blah blah.

    The IQ gear is so I can get the best quality for things that really matter. The M9 is so I can get ballpark similar but with less pixels and more portability. The 5DII is for longer lenses and action. The GH2 and Nex are part of the search for great image quality in a travel or casual walkaround kit. The Fuji is for silent and very unobtrusive but still with good IQ. And the truth is, I know how to use all of it and none of it.

    That much gear is simply too much stuff to be master of. How each lens works on each body at each aperture and focal length. What the files are like in PP and how best to shoot accordingly. You get the picture. And this is not even going near the stuff I've owned and sold, such as the S2.

    What the D800 means is, sell it all apart from the Nex and the Fuji. Then really concentrate on getting the finest glass for the Nikon and learning every last detail of the camera and its glass.

    So it's about purity of purpose. About having far less stuff that covers pretty much all the same bases, and learning that stuff in great depth.

    It's not about money. It's about results. I have tested the D800 in all the territory, indoors and out, flash and natural, tilt and shift, long and short, that I've used the Canon and Phase gear for. It covers all the bases, with, to all practical intents the same (sometimes nearly as good, often much better) results.

    It is a no brainer, for me, totally irrespective of cost.
    Last edited by tashley; 29th May 2012 at 17:14.
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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Echoing Marc's points, I'd also wager that had Phase One got a DSLR body that only even matched, let alone surpassed the abilities of ANY of the current crop of full frame 35mm DSLRs then perhaps the eagerness to change to something like the D800 would be a lot less.
    You mean like a Pentax 645D?
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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    I remember the enthusiasm for the Nex 7. Lots of love and many accolades. Many of those that were lovin' that camera no longer have it any more. The D800 is a great camera. Lets see what happens next year...
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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    You mean like a Pentax 645D?
    Well yes, good point, but only if you could stick a Phase One back on it.

    The Pentax price point is appropriate for what it is too which is NOT something I would say about the DF if you bought it at retail vs a back bundle.

    I bought a D800 too to use for long exposure work etc but I've kept my DF system (which I merely tolerate) because of the glass and IQ use.
    Ylem ...

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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Echoing Marc's points, I'd also wager that had Phase One got a DSLR body that only even matched, let alone surpassed the abilities of ANY of the current crop of full frame 35mm DSLRs then perhaps the eagerness to change to something like the D800 would be a lot less. That's where I think that Hasselblad and Phase One in particular really need to get their act together to keep the appeal of their whole systems vs the 'good enough' perceived advantages of the D800 and whatever follows shortly no doubt from everyone else next year.
    I would have thought 3 times if the DF was better, no question. Its a nice system and the glass is extremely good but it simply could not do everything easily for me but we need to remember I am a generalist and with that turf I need as much versatility as I can get from extreme wide to very long if i don't own it I can rent a 600mm F4 for incoming jets that I shoot on occasion for a client or a 16 mm fisheye. I always had a 35mm system in the background but this tips the scales and it reduces 3 complete systems into 2 which now I can build this system better with the savings from 3 and this actually helps me be more versatile in a lot of ways. Sure i would love to have all three but it also is not making sense for me at least. I also sold all my studio strobes and kept the Profoto Acute 600R battery and bought 2 Nikon SB 910 and one SB 700 with a slew of pocket wizards and now its a small bag for location gigs and when i need more i rent. Its a 20 minute drive and i can rent all the Profotos and Nikon glass even the BIG stuff I could ever hope for. So for me this is all about getting down to manageable systems and lowering my costs but keeping the gear versatility in place for anything I run into. I get a big gig than I do what almost every Pro in NY and LA do rent it and bill back what I can or raise my rate. LOL

    Hassy does not escape this either BTW, its no better IMHO. They both need to up the ante on there bodies. The S2 was a no start for me when it was released and still is. Maybe a S3 will be the one but not unless they rethink there cost structure, Im not investing 50k in a iPhone world. Sorry thats a commerce reality. For the hobbyists its a different world and I envy you folks. My hobbies are cheap. ROTFLMAO
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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    " it's about money, period".
    Hmmm, of course it's about money...and form factor, weather sealing, utility, weight, batteries, etc. usefulness, and here's a really good one...reliability!
    I owned 3 or 4 MFD cameras in the same period as one 35mm DSLR. Perhaps I'm eccentric for wanting my money's worth. The gap is smaller for photographers to compete now, based on equipment, and the creative individual is not separated by the high cost of so called, quality. Just because the gear is high priced doesn't mean the person knows how to exploit it. One could buy 2 D800's and not feel the shame of planned obsolescence when you trade them up.
    Yes, i'll take the D800, and with what's left, I could go fully outfit my studio, or buy every lens available from Nikon or Zeiss. If I want MFD, a P25+ with my H1 is perfect, and quite a bargain now too. These comparisons have completely changed many photographers attitudes towards the MFD industry. All photographers start with a budget - Given a choice with a 35mmDSLR that has been as good or better than MFD at a fraction of price...of course it's about money...duh!
    Last edited by johnnygoesdigital; 30th May 2012 at 06:34.

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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    >I remember the enthusiasm for the Nex 7.

    I have it too, but the AF glass sucks. Has still great potential with the right glass.

    NEX-7 with Zeiss 85mm Leica mount:

    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    >I remember the enthusiasm for the Nex 7. I have it too, but the AF glass sucks. Has still great potential with the right glass.
    Try the AF Zeiss 24/1.8. I tried and the sold the Nex because the handling of the cameras were not for me. But that lens is a stunner it has both resolution to match the sensor and a look to make a Leica owner go weak at the knees. Sony's control over AF when video is the gem in their crown (as it should be given their experience). It can hold focus on a subject without hunting and quickly corrects in low DoF scenarios. I know the distortion here is not great to look at (it's my son and a video for granny back in the UK).

    Sorry have to navigate to Flickr for the vid

    Because of the Nex7, during the coming few days I'm going to get hold of an A77 and the full frame equivalent to see how it all hangs together. In anticipation of a FF Sony. I like your comment as in a few months, if Sony kick out something special in FF, many people will be singing a different tune. Lets face it there's nothing groundbreaking about the D800 except more MP, and we all know who makes their sensor.

    btw where are the Nex7/A77 vs D800 comparisons? The Nex7 was remarkable in the studio, if only it didn't have such a stupid button layout. It has all the same problems as Nikon as well, too much red saturation, requires quite a bit of messing with colour in post. Seems that Sony have updated their entire lens range in anticipation of a kick arse FF offering.

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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Not at all. Not for me at least, and I suspect not for plenty of other folk.

    For me it's about focus. I have a have a cabinet groaningly full of stuff. IQ180, Phase DF, glass, Cambo, glass, M9, glass, 5DII, glass, GH2, glass, Nex7, glass, Fuji X100, Ricoh, somewhere in another home an entire Pentax DSLR system, blah blah blah.

    The IQ gear is so I can get the best quality for things that really matter. The M9 is so I can get ballpark similar but with less pixels and more portability. The 5DII is for longer lenses and action. The GH2 and Nex are part of the search for great image quality in a travel or casual walkaround kit. The Fuji is for silent and very unobtrusive but still with good IQ. And the truth is, I know how to use all of it and none of it.

    That much gear is simply too much stuff to be master of. How each lens works on each body at each aperture and focal length. What the files are like in PP and how best to shoot accordingly. You get the picture. And this is not even going near the stuff I've owned and sold, such as the S2.

    What the D800 means is, sell it all apart from the Nex and the Fuji. Then really concentrate on getting the finest glass for the Nikon and learning every last detail of the camera and its glass.

    So it's about purity of purpose. About having far less stuff that covers pretty much all the same bases, and learning that stuff in great depth.

    It's not about money. It's about results. I have tested the D800 in all the territory, indoors and out, flash and natural, tilt and shift, long and short, that I've used the Canon and Phase gear for. It covers all the bases, with, to all practical intents the same (sometimes nearly as good, often much better) results.

    It is a no brainer, for me, totally irrespective of cost.
    All right already ... I retract the "money" statement since it keeps being taken totally out of context to the original post answering a specific point of view.

    As to "purity of purpose" ... sounds like you found your Swiss Army knife for life ... I guess we'll never see a F/S ad for your D800.

    Personally, Nikon stuff was boring to me. Only having a Nikon would be excruciatingly boring. The cameras were boring, and the lenses were especially boring. About as inspirational as a brick and a stick. Gotta like what's in my hand, simple as that.

    BTW, I don't agree with you at all regarding the mastery of more than one system, unless you buy and sell into different stuff every five minutes. I've been using the same basic H camera for almost seven years (different models, same basic camera/lenses), a M camera for 40 years, and my Sony now for longer than any other DSLR with no intention of moving elsewhere since I finally found a fit with a camera/sensor that doesn't require an IT degree to figure out how to PP the files, and lenses with character I prefer. The S2 is the only new boy on the block, and it's so easy to use it's already second nature.

    So ... as usual, to each their own ... and I do not discount the notion of simplification if your applications allow it. I may well do the same in future as I wind down my shooting and ramp up retirement ... which is why I bought the S2 ... it is my retirement camera


    -Marc
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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    I hated the A77 EVF drove me nuts. I just need a optical finder myself. Just can't get used to them.
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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    I wrote 6 posts and deleted them . I guess time to say goodnight.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Guy, at first I was not real fond of the EVF on the Nex-7, but now after using it a while, I really love it. I love the ability to zoom up to 11.7x from the EVF. I would love to see it on a DSLR like the D800 or follow on Canon. What is strange is how the 11.7x is easy to use for me with the Sony and I get very good results, but when I use Nikon's implementation I find myself not liking the zoom. Especially when using a moderate telephoto. Wide angle is easier. I would love to see focus peaking on the Nikon in the future, but probably not going to happen. My eyes just don't work well with optical anymore. I just need to get a better feel for the live view on the D800.

    Uwe, I totally agree on your statement on the Nex7 and AF lenses. The camera has really amazing potential. I have gotten great results by using using some of the Sony Alpha glass on the Nex7 with the Alpha to E adapter. The one lens that really is a winner is the Sony 16-80. You can get some great results with this combination. The E lenses mostly don't begin to really get the best from the sensor's resolution, exception being the 50mm 1.8. One of these day's I am going to try a metabones adapter with what's left of my Canon glass to see how they work on the Sony. The Sony 18-200 can also produce some really great results but I am not as consistent with it as the 16-80.

    Paul

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    All right already ... I retract the "money" statement since it keeps being taken totally out of context to the original post answering a specific point of view.

    As to "purity of purpose" ... sounds like you found your Swiss Army knife for life ... I guess we'll never see a F/S ad for your D800.

    Personally, Nikon stuff was boring to me. Only having a Nikon would be excruciatingly boring. The cameras were boring, and the lenses were especially boring.M
    About as inspirational as a brick and a stick. Gotta like what's in my hand, simple as that.

    BTW, I don't agree with you at all regarding the mastery of more than one system, unless you buy and sell into different stuff every five minutes. I've been using the same basic H camera for almost seven years (different models, same basic camera/lenses), a M camera for 40 years, and my Sony now for longer than any other DSLR with no intention of moving elsewhere since I finally found a fit with a camera/sensor that doesn't require an IT degree to figure out how to PP the files, and lenses with character I prefer. The S2 is the only new boy on the block, and it's so easy to use it's already second nature.

    So ... as usual, to each their own ... and I do not discount the notion of simplification if your applications allow it. I may well do the same in future as I wind down my shooting and ramp up retirement ... which is why I bought the S2 ... it is my retirement camera


    -Marc

    Marc,

    Yet again you surmise the the worLd today in MF perfectly.

    If you're already invested - enjoy and exploit the superiority of your MF gear.

    If not, weigh up the qualitative advantages and see if they are worth the investments

    I know where I stand - although I have a certain King Canute feeling right now here.
    Ylem ...

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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Marc,
    I know where I stand - although I have a certain King Canute feeling right now here.
    Looking on the bright side, for those that want to be in MF it is getting cheaper - and the number of people who a) own it and b) have real depth of experience using it is shrinking. Which means that from a pro perspective, soon those people will be far harder to find when clients really need that stuff. So they will hopefully be able to charge more!

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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Looking on the bright side, for those that want to be in MF it id getting cheaper - and the number of people who a) own it and b) have real depth of experience using it is shrinking. Which means that from a pro perspective, soon those people will be far harder to find when clients really need that stuff. So they will hopefully be able to charge more!

    It is so nice to appreciate folks who understand us Brits ....
    Ylem ...

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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Ah, Graham,

    Your Danish roots are showing! And you are holding up pretty well while battling back the tides!

    Jack
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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    All right already ... I retract the "money" statement since it keeps being taken totally out of context to the original post answering a specific point of view.
    Marc,

    From my POV there is no need to retract the money comment, I was clarifying what I saw as a distinction that might make more sense. Am sorry it went as far South as it did.

    So ... as usual, to each their own ... and I do not discount the notion of simplification if your applications allow it. I may well do the same in future as I wind down my shooting and ramp up retirement ...
    This was more directly to my point -- we all have differing needs and desires and as such there is no single right and wrong for everybody. It's truly great to have all of these options AND the ability to explore them!



    Cheers,
    Jack
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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Where are the comparison images?

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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Looking at this from another angle.....

    I keep reading reports that the D800 produces images as good a the Phase gear but what I don't understand is why people are selling all their DF's and Schneider glass to buy the D800 and Nikon glass for the same net results?

    Like one example above, Guys's corporate portrait looks as good as it were taken with the DF and 110LS. Why not just shoot it of the DF/110LS that you already own(d) in the first place?
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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    Looking at this from another angle.....

    I keep reading reports that the D800 produces images as good a the Phase gear but what I don't understand is why people are selling all their DF's and Schneider glass to buy the D800 and Nikon glass for the same net results?

    Like one example above, Guys's corporate portrait looks as good as it were taken with the DF and 110LS. Why not just shoot it of the DF/110LS that you already own(d) in the first place?
    Magic Bullet?
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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    Looking at this from another angle.....

    I keep reading reports that the D800 produces images as good a the Phase gear but what I don't understand is why people are selling all their DF's and Schneider glass to buy the D800 and Nikon glass for the same net results?

    Like one example above, Guys's corporate portrait looks as good as it were taken with the DF and 110LS. Why not just shoot it of the DF/110LS that you already own(d) in the first place?
    Well said and true. Myself I have to have a 35mm anyway, just can't get around shooting event work without it. So having three systems tech cam, DF and a set of Sonys . I figured I would get reasonably close with the Nikon and it turns out its good enough to get by. So dumped the DF , dumped the Sony and combined both systems into the D800. I saved money and I don't have to support 3 systems. For me this is a business call and the change in the photo assignment climate. Now is the DF and it's lenses better , I think so and certainly I have real functions with the Tech cam has over both Nikon and DF. So that I want to keep and use the Nikons for other work. I need the DF I'll rent for jobs that require it. If was not for the economics I would have kept the DF in addition to the Nikon. Not sure what everyone else is doing but mine was a planned attack when the Nikon was announced. I figured it's good enough for commerce and need better grab the tech cam. Is it ideal and as good as a MF system. NO I'm cheating and not afraid to admit it. LOL

    Net is if I did not HAVE to have a 35mm , I would not have done this move. I was running on 3 crippled (gear amount wise) which was not smart. The Nikon system is loaded for bear and the tech cam needs a 43TS otherwise I'm good to go.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    I was not pointing fingers at you Guy, it was just your example was easiest to quote.

    I can't speak for the Nikon as I'm a Canon shooter but when I've had a few days shooting jobs on my 1D/5D, (that I like very much IQ and ergonomically) it's always nice to pick up the DF and Phase/Schneider glass. Its like the feeling you get coming home from a long trip!

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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by jagsiva View Post
    For now, I am going to use the D800E with 14-24, 24-70, 70-200 as a convenient landscape kit when I don't feel like lugging the IQ around, or when I'm in locations such as my kayak where I don't want to risk dunking my phase kit. YMMV.
    What I'm reading on diglloyd - Blog, though those Nikon lenses will offer convenience, but won't be able to squeeze every drops of juice out of D800. Schneider & Zeiss prime manual focus lenses could be better option, but again doesn't offer the convenience of Zoom lenses.

    Subrata

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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    I was not pointing fingers at you Guy, it was just your example was easiest to quote.

    I can't speak for the Nikon as I'm a Canon shooter but when I've had a few days shooting jobs on my 1D/5D, (that I like very much IQ and ergonomically) it's always nice to pick up the DF and Phase/Schneider glass. Its like the feeling you get coming home from a long trip!
    I know you where not.
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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by subrata1965 View Post
    What I'm reading on diglloyd - Blog, though those Nikon lenses will offer convenience, but won't be able to squeeze every drops of juice out of D800. Schneider & Zeiss prime manual focus lenses could be better option, but again doesn't offer the convenience of Zoom lenses.

    Subrata
    It's going to depend on the lenses you use. I don't think any zoom is going to do it to be honest. My 200mm is though. I said it before put the best you can afford to put in front of that sensor. On the other hand do you always need to squeeze every drop out of it as well. In some cases sure it would be nice but not always. Sometimes just the look and feel of a great image is all that matters. Pixel peeping can be hazardous to your health you know. I kid you but the truth is get great images worry about the other stuff later. This is a ART it matters how it looks only end of day.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Sometimes just the look and feel of a great image is all that matters. Pixel peeping can be hazardous to your health you know. I kid you but the truth is get great images worry about the other stuff later. This is a ART it matters how it looks only end of day.
    Pixel peeping is hazardous to bank account also.

    Then again we discuss IQ.

    Subrata

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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by subrata1965 View Post
    What I'm reading on diglloyd - Blog, though those Nikon lenses will offer convenience, but won't be able to squeeze every drops of juice out of D800. Schneider & Zeiss prime manual focus lenses could be better option, but again doesn't offer the convenience of Zoom lenses.

    Subrata
    I dont allways come to the same conclusion as digilloyd but one comment here:

    I have tried it with the d700 several times but I find manual focus not a good option for Nikon (besides subjects where you can use live view).

    So even if there are some manual focus lenses which - in theory-offer better IQ I find it problematic to use them for anything where you like shooting wide open and where you can not use live view.

    One of the big advantages (and why I still own Nikon) is the fast and accurate AF.

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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Sometimes just the look and feel of a great image is all that matters. Pixel peeping can be hazardous to your health you know. I kid you but the truth is get great images worry about the other stuff later. This is a ART it matters how it looks only end of day.
    Let me ad to that....

    The Art Director of Vogue Italy told me that he flicks through photographers book in what may appear to be a very superficial manner, but that he does so because that is how readers flick through magazines. If the image does not strike him in a flash it's not doing one half of the job. The other half is standing up to "prolonged viewing" by designers and trade people.

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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    I like to impress the guy writing the checks. ROTFLMAO
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    >I remember the enthusiasm for the Nex 7.

    I have it too, but the AF glass sucks. Has still great potential with the right glass.

    NEX-7 with Zeiss 85mm Leica mount:

    Nice try Uwe but your images do not prove much in this kind of argument. Sorry mate but you make every single camera you use sing. You squeeze tonality out of tiny sensors that I would not begin to think possible. It is people like you who I consider my mentors in the 'it's the photographer not the gear' stakes and are an incredible example about why the argument about spending tens of thousands of dollars on a couple more percent of subjective IQ is a techy argument, not an artists argument IMHO.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by subrata1965 View Post
    What I'm reading on diglloyd - Blog, though those Nikon lenses will offer convenience, but won't be able to squeeze every drops of juice out of D800. Schneider & Zeiss prime manual focus lenses could be better option, but again doesn't offer the convenience of Zoom lenses.

    Subrata
    The whole Schneider Zeiss is a bit overblown...

    Zeiss 50mm 1.4 @ 1.4 corner


    Nikon 50mm 1.4g @ 1.4 corner


    Zeiss 85mm 1.4 @ 1.4 corner


    Nikon 85mm 1.4g @ 1.4 corner


    And the "cheap" Nikon 85mm 1.8G








    And just to round things off how about Zooms vs Zeiss Primes?





    Quite a difference right...... but the top one is a Canon Zoom. lenses are set to 2.8.

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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by FredBGG View Post
    The whole Schneider Zeiss is a bit overblown...
    But, but. The German name, that surely must do something. I know, you don't know how to focus and you used a Nikon filter on the Zeiss glass. Only a Zeiss filter would get all the resolution out of the lens. it would be way different if you had processed that in C1!

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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by FredBGG View Post
    The whole Schneider Zeiss is a bit overblown...
    I thik resolution is overrated in all those lens and camera comparisons.
    There is so much more than resolution.

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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Nice try Uwe but your images do not prove much in this kind of argument. Sorry mate but you make every single camera you use sing. You squeeze tonality out of tiny sensors that I would not begin to think possible. It is people like you who I consider my mentors in the 'it's the photographer not the gear' stakes and are an incredible example about why the argument about spending tens of thousands of dollars on a couple more percent of subjective IQ is a techy argument, not an artists argument IMHO.
    Ben, doesn't that sweeping statement preclude wanting a specific look and feel of a specific system?

    My friend refuses to relinquish his Contax 645 (which he uses with a Phase One back), because of the look and feel he gets from the whole system, not just the sensor specs. He'll spend what is necessary to preserve that unique systems look. He only shoots with that camera and a Leica M9. I don't think he even owns a 35mm DSLR.

    IQ isn't just pixel peeping, and subjectivity IS what this is all about as an artist's choice ... because it IS the photographer not the tech specs that makes the aesthetic choices.

    I shot with an A77 for three days and could NOT wait to return it. The look and feel from the A900 was so much better ... frankly, I was stunned after reading all the accolades about the A77 and then actually using it. Wiped the NEX7 off the consideration list at the same time. Not much hope for the A99 if the look and feel will be like that in the rush to jack-up the meg count and squeeze it into a tiny space. They can keep the EVF also BTW.

    IMHO.

    -Marc

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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    I thik resolution is overrated in all those lens and camera comparisons.
    There is so much more than resolution.
    I agree which is why I still shoot even portraits with 8x10 using paper instead of film... but my response was to this:

    Quote Originally Posted by subrata1965 View Post
    What I'm reading on diglloyd - Blog, though those Nikon lenses will offer convenience, but won't be able to squeeze every drops of juice out of D800. Schneider & Zeiss prime manual focus lenses could be better option, but again doesn't offer the convenience of Zoom lenses.

    Subrata

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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    The test is up on their site:

    D800(E) vs IQ180 | The Circle of Confusion

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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Why was this result surprising? Why were they so impressed? Isn't that what they should have expected?

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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Actually, some chaps from England predicted this development almost 50 years ago. They even made a song about Nikon back then

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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by FredBGG View Post
    The test is up on their site:

    D800(E) vs IQ180 | The Circle of Confusion
    Images from IQ180 are more pleasing to my eyes!

    Would love to see RAW files, if they decide to publish.

    Subrata

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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Ben, doesn't that sweeping statement preclude wanting a specific look and feel of a specific system?

    My friend refuses to relinquish his Contax 645 (which he uses with a Phase One back), because of the look and feel he gets from the whole system, not just the sensor specs. He'll spend what is necessary to preserve that unique systems look. He only shoots with that camera and a Leica M9. I don't think he even owns a 35mm DSLR.

    IQ isn't just pixel peeping, and subjectivity IS what this is all about as an artist's choice ... because it IS the photographer not the tech specs that makes the aesthetic choices.

    I shot with an A77 for three days and could NOT wait to return it. The look and feel from the A900 was so much better ... frankly, I was stunned after reading all the accolades about the A77 and then actually using it. Wiped the NEX7 off the consideration list at the same time. Not much hope for the A99 if the look and feel will be like that in the rush to jack-up the meg count and squeeze it into a tiny space. They can keep the EVF also BTW.

    IMHO.

    -Marc
    Marc, how many of the greats are known for the 'look' of the equipment they use rather than the content and the way they use them? (honest question)

    It's a point I've been musing about for the past few weeks after the end of year exhibition from my art students. So much incredible and diverse work, all 8X12" prints, 90% shot on p&s's or on my lent 5Dc + 50mm lens set at f5.6. I was sitting at the display at the end of the evening when a couple of students from a nearby college walked by. They stopped to look and I overheard a muttered comment about two of the displays 'if I had a better camera..'. I really enjoyed walking over and telling them that the photographs were taken on p&s's, one of which had been set to 3 megapixel mode to make the pictures faster to load up to facebook! ( students) That sent them off red faced.

    I honestly want to believe, as an artist, that the differences in nuance which most other photographers cannot see nevermind the viewing public, can only be a personal need and not a necessity for producing the art. If it is personal then arguments about which fits better to a personal need are like arguing over which is the best colour. Everyone has a different and subjective opinion that can have little to no relevance to anyone else and no persons choice is any less valid than anyone elses. There is a big difference of course between requirements and choices, I'm talking about the latter.
    Last edited by Ben Rubinstein; 8th June 2012 at 01:25.
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    Re: D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

    Making very large sharp high resolution pictures can be a part of an artistic expression. Some subjects work much better on large sharp prints.

    Some music works best with a symphony orchestra in a fine concert hall, other can be played on a poorly tuned solo guitar around a camp fire.

    I'd say landscape photography corresponds to that symphonic music.

    I think Ansel Adams is one example of a photographer which is partly known for the very high technical quality of his images. Much of his subtle artistic expression would be lost if he had not been an expert photographer and printmaker.

    Henri Cartier-Bresson is an example of a great photographer where technical perfection or printmaking was not as important, but his subjects are much different from those of Ansel Adams.
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