D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

[subrata1965]

For now, I am going to use the D800E with 14-24, 24-70, 70-200 as a convenient landscape kit when I don't feel like lugging the IQ around, or when I'm in locations such as my kayak where I don't want to risk dunking my phase kit. YMMV.

What I'm reading on diglloyd - Blog, though those Nikon lenses will offer convenience, but won't be able to squeeze every drops of juice out of D800. Schneider & Zeiss prime manual focus lenses could be better option, but again doesn't offer the convenience of Zoom lenses.

Subrata

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I was not pointing fingers at you Guy, it was just your example was easiest to quote.

I can't speak for the Nikon as I'm a Canon shooter but when I've had a few days shooting jobs on my 1D/5D, (that I like very much IQ and ergonomically) it's always nice to pick up the DF and Phase/Schneider glass. Its like the feeling you get coming home from a long trip!

I know you where not.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

What I'm reading on diglloyd - Blog, though those Nikon lenses will offer convenience, but won't be able to squeeze every drops of juice out of D800. Schneider & Zeiss prime manual focus lenses could be better option, but again doesn't offer the convenience of Zoom lenses.

Subrata

It's going to depend on the lenses you use. I don't think any zoom is going to do it to be honest. My 200mm is though. I said it before put the best you can afford to put in front of that sensor. On the other hand do you always need to squeeze every drop out of it as well. In some cases sure it would be nice but not always. Sometimes just the look and feel of a great image is all that matters. Pixel peeping can be hazardous to your health you know. I kid you but the truth is get great images worry about the other stuff later. This is a ART it matters how it looks only end of day.

 

[subrata1965]

Sometimes just the look and feel of a great image is all that matters. Pixel peeping can be hazardous to your health you know. I kid you but the truth is get great images worry about the other stuff later. This is a ART it matters how it looks only end of day.

Pixel peeping is hazardous to bank account also.

Then again we discuss IQ.

Subrata

 

[Paratom]

What I'm reading on diglloyd - Blog, though those Nikon lenses will offer convenience, but won't be able to squeeze every drops of juice out of D800. Schneider & Zeiss prime manual focus lenses could be better option, but again doesn't offer the convenience of Zoom lenses.

Subrata

I dont allways come to the same conclusion as digilloyd but one comment here:

I have tried it with the d700 several times but I find manual focus not a good option for Nikon (besides subjects where you can use live view).

So even if there are some manual focus lenses which - in theory-offer better IQ I find it problematic to use them for anything where you like shooting wide open and where you can not use live view.

One of the big advantages (and why I still own Nikon) is the fast and accurate AF.

 

[FredBGG]

Sometimes just the look and feel of a great image is all that matters. Pixel peeping can be hazardous to your health you know. I kid you but the truth is get great images worry about the other stuff later. This is a ART it matters how it looks only end of day.

Let me ad to that....

The Art Director of Vogue Italy told me that he flicks through photographers book in what may appear to be a very superficial manner, but that he does so because that is how readers flick through magazines. If the image does not strike him in a flash it's not doing one half of the job. The other half is standing up to "prolonged viewing" by designers and trade people.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I like to impress the guy writing the checks. ROTFLMAO

 

[Ben Rubinstein]

>I remember the enthusiasm for the Nex 7.

I have it too, but the AF glass sucks. Has still great potential with the right glass.

NEX-7 with Zeiss 85mm Leica mount:

Nice try Uwe but your images do not prove much in this kind of argument. Sorry mate but you make every single camera you use sing. You squeeze tonality out of tiny sensors that I would not begin to think possible. It is people like you who I consider my mentors in the 'it's the photographer not the gear' stakes and are an incredible example about why the argument about spending tens of thousands of dollars on a couple more percent of subjective IQ is a techy argument, not an artists argument IMHO.

 

[FredBGG]

What I'm reading on diglloyd - Blog, though those Nikon lenses will offer convenience, but won't be able to squeeze every drops of juice out of D800. Schneider & Zeiss prime manual focus lenses could be better option, but again doesn't offer the convenience of Zoom lenses.

Subrata

The whole Schneider Zeiss is a bit overblown...

Zeiss 50mm 1.4 @ 1.4 corner

Nikon 50mm 1.4g @ 1.4 corner

Zeiss 85mm 1.4 @ 1.4 corner

Nikon 85mm 1.4g @ 1.4 corner

And the "cheap" Nikon 85mm 1.8G

And just to round things off how about Zooms vs Zeiss Primes?

Quite a difference right...... but the top one is a Canon Zoom. lenses are set to 2.8.

 

[Shashin]

The whole Schneider Zeiss is a bit overblown...

But, but. The German name, that surely must do something. I know, you don't know how to focus and you used a Nikon filter on the Zeiss glass. Only a Zeiss filter would get all the resolution out of the lens. it would be way different if you had processed that in C1!

 

[Paratom]

The whole Schneider Zeiss is a bit overblown...

I thik resolution is overrated in all those lens and camera comparisons.
There is so much more than resolution.

 

[fotografz]

Nice try Uwe but your images do not prove much in this kind of argument. Sorry mate but you make every single camera you use sing. You squeeze tonality out of tiny sensors that I would not begin to think possible. It is people like you who I consider my mentors in the 'it's the photographer not the gear' stakes and are an incredible example about why the argument about spending tens of thousands of dollars on a couple more percent of subjective IQ is a techy argument, not an artists argument IMHO.

Ben, doesn't that sweeping statement preclude wanting a specific look and feel of a specific system?

My friend refuses to relinquish his Contax 645 (which he uses with a Phase One back), because of the look and feel he gets from the whole system, not just the sensor specs. He'll spend what is necessary to preserve that unique systems look. He only shoots with that camera and a Leica M9. I don't think he even owns a 35mm DSLR.

IQ isn't just pixel peeping, and subjectivity IS what this is all about as an artist's choice ... because it IS the photographer not the tech specs that makes the aesthetic choices.

I shot with an A77 for three days and could NOT wait to return it. The look and feel from the A900 was so much better ... frankly, I was stunned after reading all the accolades about the A77 and then actually using it. Wiped the NEX7 off the consideration list at the same time. Not much hope for the A99 if the look and feel will be like that in the rush to jack-up the meg count and squeeze it into a tiny space. They can keep the EVF also BTW.

IMHO.

-Marc

 

[FredBGG]

I thik resolution is overrated in all those lens and camera comparisons.
There is so much more than resolution.

I agree which is why I still shoot even portraits with 8x10 using paper instead of film... but my response was to this:

What I'm reading on diglloyd - Blog, though those Nikon lenses will offer convenience, but won't be able to squeeze every drops of juice out of D800. Schneider & Zeiss prime manual focus lenses could be better option, but again doesn't offer the convenience of Zoom lenses.

Subrata

 

[FredBGG]

The test is up on their site:

D800(E) vs IQ180 | The Circle of Confusion

 

[Shashin]

Why was this result surprising? Why were they so impressed? Isn't that what they should have expected?

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Actually, some chaps from England predicted this development almost 50 years ago. They even made a song about Nikon back then

Getting Better- The Beatles - YouTube

 

[subrata1965]

The test is up on their site:

D800(E) vs IQ180 | The Circle of Confusion

Images from IQ180 are more pleasing to my eyes!

Would love to see RAW files, if they decide to publish.

Subrata

 

[Ben Rubinstein]

Ben, doesn't that sweeping statement preclude wanting a specific look and feel of a specific system?

My friend refuses to relinquish his Contax 645 (which he uses with a Phase One back), because of the look and feel he gets from the whole system, not just the sensor specs. He'll spend what is necessary to preserve that unique systems look. He only shoots with that camera and a Leica M9. I don't think he even owns a 35mm DSLR.

IQ isn't just pixel peeping, and subjectivity IS what this is all about as an artist's choice ... because it IS the photographer not the tech specs that makes the aesthetic choices.

I shot with an A77 for three days and could NOT wait to return it. The look and feel from the A900 was so much better ... frankly, I was stunned after reading all the accolades about the A77 and then actually using it. Wiped the NEX7 off the consideration list at the same time. Not much hope for the A99 if the look and feel will be like that in the rush to jack-up the meg count and squeeze it into a tiny space. They can keep the EVF also BTW.

IMHO.

-Marc

Marc, how many of the greats are known for the 'look' of the equipment they use rather than the content and the way they use them? (honest question)

It's a point I've been musing about for the past few weeks after the end of year exhibition from my art students. So much incredible and diverse work, all 8X12" prints, 90% shot on p&s's or on my lent 5Dc + 50mm lens set at f5.6. I was sitting at the display at the end of the evening when a couple of students from a nearby college walked by. They stopped to look and I overheard a muttered comment about two of the displays 'if I had a better camera..'. I really enjoyed walking over and telling them that the photographs were taken on p&s's, one of which had been set to 3 megapixel mode to make the pictures faster to load up to facebook! banghead: students) That sent them off red faced.

I honestly want to believe, as an artist, that the differences in nuance which most other photographers cannot see nevermind the viewing public, can only be a personal need and not a necessity for producing the art. If it is personal then arguments about which fits better to a personal need are like arguing over which is the best colour. Everyone has a different and subjective opinion that can have little to no relevance to anyone else and no persons choice is any less valid than anyone elses. There is a big difference of course between requirements and choices, I'm talking about the latter.

 

[torger]

Making very large sharp high resolution pictures can be a part of an artistic expression. Some subjects work much better on large sharp prints.

Some music works best with a symphony orchestra in a fine concert hall, other can be played on a poorly tuned solo guitar around a camp fire.

I'd say landscape photography corresponds to that symphonic music.

I think Ansel Adams is one example of a photographer which is partly known for the very high technical quality of his images. Much of his subtle artistic expression would be lost if he had not been an expert photographer and printmaker.

Henri Cartier-Bresson is an example of a great photographer where technical perfection or printmaking was not as important, but his subjects are much different from those of Ansel Adams.

 

[malmac]

Interesting Thread with lots of apparently different points of view. I have just been wondering if the points of view reflect our respective situations rather than an objective assessment of the three cameras being compared.

This is what I am seeing as I consider the impact of the D800 on my photography.

I see three positions re this issue (there may well be more that others wish to point out).

1. Those who currently own a MFDB

2. Those who are, or were considering the purchase of a MFDB

3. Those who have no intention or capacity to purchase a MFDB.

So each of those groups seem to have three broad options available to them (again there are probably more but you get my point)

Group 1 who currently own a MFDB have roughly three options
(a) BAIL OUT - sell and move on
(b) RATIONALIZE - defend the current benefits of IQ180 files for example.
(c) WAIT - maybe Phase 1 will bring out a better camera, a bigger sensor etc, etc

Those in Group 2 who are or were thinking of buying a MFDB also have three options.
(a) BE GRATEFUL - Review the savings now possible if the D800 fits their needs.
(b) BE OPTIMISTIC - wow now MFDB will be cheaper and second hand units in greater supply
(c) WAIT - What will the next generation of MFDB's deliver

Those in Group 3 who don't want or cant afford a MFDB have three broad options
(a) CELEBRATE - the D800 is the latest camera with premium performance per $ spent
(b) ASSASSINATE - the IQ180 was King last year but now lets chop off his head
(c) ENJOY - the conversation that these releases engender - and wait for the next killer camera to come along that makes the D800 look shabby and past it's use by date.

I currently own a MFDB and have opted for the WAIT and see what happens next option.
This decision may result in me having the most expensive paper weight in the street.


I respect that everyone has a reason for their point of view - this is my attempt to appreciate the different views expressed in this thread.

cheers.


mal