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D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

Bob

Administrator
Staff member
So I have been shooting now three (well 2.5) systems lately.
D800: ok, good enough for government work, lots of lens choices first Canikon that is actually fun to shoot once you solve its maze of options. ZF.2 18 is a decent wide at f/8. most of the lenses I have tried are more or less ok at f/8 except the nikon 20 which would be fine if I liked oatmeal.
Small enough to put in a bag with 2-3 lenses and walk around the streets, bulkier and heavier than Leica M but the D800's AF is better.

DF/IQ180/LS lenses: Body is a touch temperamental but once it has been zeroed in by MAC service it focuses reasonably well. Use with live subjects is doable once you develop the technique using af on the rear button and then shooting a bunch until the distance changes and as long as you shoot at f/11. Landscape and occasional people with LS lenses wide open produce some very nice results.

Arca Rm3di/Rodie 40/70/Schneider120/IQ180: Killer system but slow to use. Almost the full zen experience of large format except the film holders are lighter. I also have a roll film back for use when I want to remind myself why I shoot digital from a work flow point of view.

So the bottom line is the frequency of "good" images with each system. I say "good" not meaning to imply that I am a good photographer, just that they are pleasing to me and clients.

Results: Well it depends
Kitchen and architecture, ok, well it pays: Arca hands down winner, D800 is in second place. Tilt and shift (or swing as is the case with so many kitchen shots) being always available is a HUGE benefit. I only own the 24PCE and it is ok but just ok. The rodies and schneiders beat it with a stick. No issue or possibility here with quick grab shots. Lighting needs to be set and adjusted, all of this work is thought-out slow work so there are few advantages with the D800 other than perhaps it might need half or a quarter the flash power at higher ISOs OTOH, that is not really so as often as one is trying to balance outdoor light with interior light.

Event, grip and grin, and I would assume wedding other than the set shots since I don't do weddings: D800 hands down. Fast, light, high ISO that behaves well in the shadows where the 5DII and 1DsIII did not.

Landscape usual tripod holes: Much like a kitchen these are not grab and go shots, often the biggest time spent is waiting for the light.
Choice is either IQ180 approach with the favor going to the arca.

Models in studio. d800 is good enough, af wins, colors are a bit off but who really knows what color that scarf is other than the manufacturer. Skin tones are acceptable but not as good as the IQ180. Favor tends to the d800 since I can move around a lot more without breaking my back. After a 4 hour shoot this is a significant point.

So for those occasions where I might casually see something I want to shoot the d800 has earned its place in my kit.

Serious landscape and architecture it is the arca when I know in advance pretty much what I want to shoot.

That leaves the df in sort of a no-mans-land. If it weren't for the LS lenses it would be gone. Maybe it is time to let it go but hold on to the LS lenses in the hope that Phase will make something that fits better between the lens and back BUT and this IS a big BUT. Even if they did, the weight alone would not permit it to be my walk-about camera.

So my first inclination was to look at the number of good images. Well I suppose they don't change much no matter what camera I am using, but I DO take more images with the d800 simply because I can.
-bob
 
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dchew

Well-known member
Bob, which one is the widest, the D800 + 18mm or the IQ180 with Rodie 40mm shifted ?
With the IQ180 / 40mm combo, you would need to shift 20mm each way in the vertical orientation to equal the diagonal of an 18mm lens in 35mm format.

However, the ratios are of course different. My calculations assume cropping the 40-shift to the normal 4/3 format.

But regardless, the angle of view from the two are pretty comparable when the 40 is shifted.

Dave
 
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Geoff

Well-known member
So I have been shooting now three (well 2.5) systems lately.
D800: ok, good enough for government work, lots of lens choices first Canikon that is actually fun to shoot once you solve its maze of options. ZF.2 18 is a decent wide at f/8. most of the lenses I have tried are more or less ok at f/8 except the nikon 20 which would be fine if I liked oatmeal.
Small enough to put in a bag with 2-3 lenses and walk around the streets, bulkier and heavier than Leica M but the D800's AF is better.

DF/IQ180/LS lenses: Body is a touch temperamental but once it has been zeroed in my MAC service it focuses reasonably well. Use with live subjects is doable once you develop the technique using af on the rear button and then shooting a bunch until the distance changes and as long as you shoot at f/11. Landscape and occasional proper with LS lenses wide open produce some very nice results.

Arca Rm3di/Rodie 40/70/Schneider120/IQ180: Killer system but slow to use. Almost the full zen experience of large format except the film holders are lighter. I also have a roll film back for use when I want to remind myself why I shoot digital from a work flow point of view.

so the bottom line is the frequency of "good" images with each system. I say good not meaning to imply that I am a good photographer, just that they are pleasing to me and clients.

Results: Well it depends
Kitchen and architecture, ok, well it pays: Arca hands down winner, D800 a in second place. Tilt and shift (or swing as is the case with so many kitchen shots) being always available is a HUGE benefit. I only own the 24PCE and it is ok but just ok. The rodies and schneiders beat it with a stick. No issue here with quick grab shots. Lighting needs to be set and adjusted, all of this work is thought-out slow work so there are few advantages with the D800 other than perhaps it might need half or a quarter the flash power at higher isis OTOH, that is not really so as often one is trying to balance outdoor light with interior light.

Event, grip and grin, and I would assume wedding other than the set shots since I don't do weddings: D800 hands down. Fast, light, high iso that behaves well in the shadows where the 5DII and 1DsIII did not.

Landscape usual tripod holes: Much like a kitchen these are not grab and go shots, often the biggest tie spent is waiting for the light.
Choice is either IQ180 approach with the favor going to the arcs.

Models in studio. d800 is good enough, af wins, colors are a bit off but who really knows what color that scarf is other than the manufacturer. Skin tones are acceptable but not as good as the IQ180. Favor tends to the d800 since I can move around a lot more without breaking my back. After a 4 hour shoot this is a significant point.

So for those occasions where I might casually see something I want to shoot the d800 has earned its place in my kit.

Serious landscape and architecture it is the arca when I know in advance pretty much what I want to shoot.

That leaves the df in sort of a no-mans-land. If it weren't for the LS lenses it would be gone. Maybe it is time to let it go but hold on to the LS lenses in the hope that Phase will make something that fits better between the lens and body BUT and this IS a big BUT. Even if they did, the weight alone would not permit it to be my walk-about camera.

So my first inclination was to look at the number of good images, well I suppose they don't change much no matter what camera I am using, but I DO take more images with the d800 simply because I can.
-bob
Excellent summation. Really right on the mark. Of course, while in total agreement, another answer is just right where you aren't: MFDB works for me albeit with a better body than the DF (Hy6) and all those lovely Schneiders. But you put your finger right on it: where it can work is to get landscapes, and even move around shots. For really set shots, a tech camera would be better with more movements (although there is a decent PC lens, boat anchor). For action shots - maybe it can take something, but misses outnumber the hits 3:1.

Where MFDB excels for my uses is in the urban/landscape mode, addressing well both uncertainty and movement to get the shot. The WLF really makes the difference in composition and is moving the work to another plane, which doesn't happen with DSLR. An desire for fine files is satisfied. Pretty neat right? Well.... yes... but then after about 2-3 hours, forget it. Its all over. The weight is just too much. Then again (in mid-late 50's), not sure I can concentrate much longer than that anyway, so maybe that's just about right. Gee, that's the answer - pick the best system that meets your physical endurance and the rest falls into place. :)
 

anGy

Member
With the IQ180 / 40mm combo, you would need to shift 20mm each way in the vertical orientation to equal the diagonal of an 18mm lens in 35mm format.

However, the ratios are of course different. My calculations assume cropping the 40-shift to the normal 4/3 format.

But regardless, the angle of view from the two are pretty comparable when the 40 is shifted.

Dave
:salute:
 
R

rjkern

Guest
Peter, looking forward to seeing the results! Thanks for geeking out and sharing.

Your book is proudly on display in my office with such great memories from shooting landscapes in Ireland :)

Cheers,

RJ
 

Wayne Fox

Workshop Member
If it was an improvement then the AFD III really must be a dog. Hard to believe that's the best they can do after 4 design versions.
maybe you have a bad lens, body or back or some type of mirror/viewfinder screen alignment problem?

My DF body doesn't focus fast (doesn't do anything real fast) , but it's pretty much dead on most of the time ... as good as my canon or Nikons autofocus.
 

EH21

Member
Wayne,

Anythings a possibility I guess. I did find the viewfinder black out was so long before the camera actually recorded the image that I would move or my model would move. DOF is pretty shallow and little bits of movement make big differences. My primary camera was the 6008AF but also shot the RZ and never had this issue and wasn't ready for it. I went to the AFi-ii 12 and was much happier.

Anyhow photokina is almost here - maybe phase/mamiya will come out with something really new for you folks that shoot that platform?
 
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