H3DII39 or P45+

[dougpeterson]

Re: Rhttp://forum.getdpi.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&pe: H3DII39 or

There are tremendous benifits of having a system that is completely integrated and Hasselblads competitors are following suite with their first generation DSLR cameras.

...

This is a technical decision rather then a marketing decision. Hasselblad designed their first digital HCD lens to cover the image circle of a 22/39/50mp sensor, the 28mm was announced at Photokina 2006 Hasselblad at the same time we announced our 3rd generation H3D platform 2 years ago.

Paul Claesson
Hasselblad USA

In case I wasn't clear I am fully behind the technical advantages of increased integration (I am a Mac user after all and I love the Phase One body/lenses!). My comment was to say that locking OTHERS out of your system is a marketing decision. Phase has heavily increased their integration in conjunction with Mamiya but we are leaving the system completely open. Any manufacturer can make a back for our Phase One body.

Adding increased functionality or striving for higher quality by integration does not prohibit openness. There are zero technical reasons why the Hasselblad 28mm lens cannot be used with a Phase One back. There is no reason why the H3 body cannot be used with a Phase One back. These were marketing decisions which bode poorly for the future of Hasselblad's openess.

Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer | Personal Portfolio

 

[tashley]

We should clarify a relatively slow top shutter speed is only a limitation to generating SHALLOW DoF under brighter lighting... In "normal" outdoor light at ISO 100, your max aperture would be approximately f5.6 @ 1/800th. So if you wanted f4 or f2.8, you'd need to mount an ND filter or use a camera with faster shutter speeds or lower ISO...

I rarely want shallow DoF in landscapes, though I definitely do in a few certain situations. However, I find I like shallow DoF for many street or natural light portrait sessions, and this is where I find the higher shutter speeds beneficial.

All FWIW,

Thanks Jack - I get that, just possibly did not express myself clearly. I too generally want very deeo DOF but there are always times when shallow is good, and as I said much further up the thread, carrying ND is a bore.

Tim

 

[Guy Mancuso]

:ROTFL:

I'm quite pleased at the interactions on this board. Paul is a great guy and it's great to be paired up with him on the court .

Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer | Personal Portfolio

Actually I have been reading this thread and it is all great to be honest. Each manufacture has there strong points and each there hate to say weak , let's just say limited points and for new folks like Tim this stuff needs to get out of the closet and be talked about. These are some of the very key reasons why some would choose a Hassy and some would choose the Phase or any other brand. I see sometimes way to much chest pumping which frankly a little tired of but not here . These are points one needs to understand and base there decisions on. The end of the day there all good systems and it just really depends on what the needs are. i went focal plane so that was a decision based on my needs , some will chose leaf for the very same reasons based on there needs but all these other details are important and need to be said. Well done from all sides

 

[Paul Claesson Hasselblad]

:ROTFL:

I'm quite pleased at the interactions on this board. Paul is a great guy and it's great to be paired up with him on the court .

Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer | Personal Portfolio

It is great to be a part of the forum and I always enjoy a lively exchange ;-)

Paul

 

[etrigan63]

I too am watching this thread with great interest. I met fine folks at the Mamiya and Hasselblad booths over at PhotoPlus. Both systems (and the Phamiya too) are candidates for me to move up to if my photography allows me.

 

[PeterA]

What is there to be confused about?

Hasselblad via CF back range and Sinar both via adaptor plates allows the user to change adaptor plates as much as they choose to change them and as frequently as they choose to change them to fit multiple camera platforms. It takes a few minutes if one is clumsy. thsi delivers enormous potential flexibility and therefore increased utility.

I didnt 'coin' the term "open or closed" it is a term that has been used to criticise Hasselbald H system for quite a while now. This criticism was very much 'aimed' at Hasselbald as the H body and Leaf lenses was the most heavilly used pro studio system and Hasselblad in effect were seen to be 'cutting out' competing backs. Today- all systems are in fact as closed as each other - except as stated in my original post the CF range of Hasselblad back and their I adaptors and the Sinar range of backs and their adaptors.

The industry has now moved to a model where every system is essentially 'closed' - because of the need for intergrated workflow - blah blah marketing BS blah..intergrated workflow is software interfacing with hardware to get better corrections.

If the industry actually sat down and standardised certain hardware interface protocalls - we would all be better off - but then again the marketing scam of so called differentiation would be much harder to pull off.

PeterA, I'm confused on why sending in the back to have a plate changed or not makes it "open" or "closed." Both need plate changes, one you can do yourself, one you can't. Doesn't mean you can't do it. In fact, correct me if I'm wrong, but Phase gives you a free platform change with the 3-year VA warranty.

EDIT: Well, the 3-year gives you "3-Year Free Platform Swap Guarantee" though I'm not 100% clear on what that means. Maybe I mispoke.

 

[tashley]

I too am watching this thread with great interest. I met fine folks at the Mamiya and Hasselblad booths over at PhotoPlus. Both systems (and the Phamiya too) are candidates for me to move up to if my photography allows me.

Carlos, I have learned one very politically incorrect thing about this: if you buy it, your photography will come.

No one will agree but in my experience it has almost always been true.
t

 

[etrigan63]

Oh, I know that based on bitter experience. When I teach my workshop to middle school kids, the first thing I tell them is that having the right tools are very important. A talented person can build a bridge with rocks and sticks, it's just way more difficult. I am looking towards digital medium format to accomplish in one shot what I do currently with 5-7 shots and a lot of post work.

The trick is having enough business to pay for the silly thing. Still working on that part.

 

[FromJapan]

If Phase and Leaf offered a platform swap at the same cost as that of an adaptor from Sinar and Hasselblad, it would go a long way to increase the perception of flexibility. I say 'perception' because most photographers do not actually change camera systems frequently.

Kumar

What is there to be confused about?

Hasselblad via CF back range and Sinar both via adaptor plates allows the user to change adaptor plates as much as they choose to change them and as frequently as they choose to change them to fit multiple camera platforms. It takes a few minutes if one is clumsy. thsi delivers enormous potential flexibility and therefore increased utility.

I didnt 'coin' the term "open or closed" it is a term that has been used to criticise Hasselbald H system for quite a while now. This criticism was very much 'aimed' at Hasselbald as the H body and Leaf lenses was the most heavilly used pro studio system and Hasselblad in effect were seen to be 'cutting out' competing backs. Today- all systems are in fact as closed as each other - except as stated in my original post the CF range of Hasselblad back and their I adaptors and the Sinar range of backs and their adaptors.

The industry has now moved to a model where every system is essentially 'closed' - because of the need for intergrated workflow - blah blah marketing BS blah..intergrated workflow is software interfacing with hardware to get better corrections.

If the industry actually sat down and standardised certain hardware interface protocalls - we would all be better off - but then again the marketing scam of so called differentiation would be much harder to pull off.

 

[dougpeterson]

If Phase and Leaf offered a platform swap at the same cost as that of an adapter from Sinar and Hasselblad, it would go a long way to increase the perception of flexibility. I say 'perception' because most photographers do not actually change camera systems frequently.

Kumar

Phase One offers a free platform swap with the Value Added (and highly recommended) 3-year Warranty. Even less money than an adapter from Sinar .

And you're right, the vast vast majority of our customers never use this option even though its free. It's more of an insurance policy as future-proofing and a way to protect your investment and resale value.

Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer | Personal Portfolio

 

[lance_schad]

Kumar,

Well Phase One essentially does this for less than what an adapter costswhen you purchase the VA warranty the platform swap is included along with a three warranty, next business day swap-out along with other accessories for a nominal cost of $3000 additional.

If you are out of warranty or have a classic one, the list price is $2500 for a swap-out to a back that will pick up your warranty (if left) and give a factory re-certified unit with a similar if not lower number of captures.

Maybe it should be considered. Steve are you listening?

Lance

 

[dougpeterson]

Geesh. Lance and I have equally little to do on a Monday night.

Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer | Personal Portfolio

 

[lance_schad]

I guess....but I have a salad from Joes!
L

 

[dougpeterson]

I guess....but I have a salad from Joes!
L

Lance is mocking me because I committed to home cooking all of my food in November.

What I wouldn't give for a nice salad from Joes...

Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer | Personal Portfolio

 

[fotografz]

We should clarify a relatively slow top shutter speed is only a limitation to generating SHALLOW DoF under brighter lighting... In "normal" outdoor light at ISO 100, your max aperture would be approximately f5.6 @ 1/800th. So if you wanted f4 or f2.8, you'd need to mount an ND filter or use a camera with faster shutter speeds or lower ISO...

I rarely want shallow DoF in landscapes, though I definitely do in a few certain situations. However, I find I like shallow DoF for many street or natural light portrait sessions, and this is where I find the higher shutter speeds beneficial.

All FWIW,

The H3D-II/39 offers ISO 50. The only HC lenses offering faster than f/3.2 are the 100/2.2 and 80/2.8. I rarely have run out of shutter speed with the 500 series camera let alone the H camera @ 1/800th ... usually if ISO 50 and 1/800th doesn't do it, the light is pretty harsh.

I far more often ran out of sync speed when shooting environmental outdoor portraits using a touch of fill ... which is why I sold off my Mamiya ... 1/125th top sync forced small apertures to balance out the ambient.

Depends on which situation you are more likely to face more frequently based on your shooting.

 

[Steve Hendrix]

Here is the breakdown on platform flexibility, at least through the 3rd quarter of 2008.

Leaf
Platform swap (no shims required)
Cost: $2,099
When: Can be done any time in or out of warranty

Hasselblad
Adapter system (shims may be required)
Cost: $650 - $850 per adapter
When: can be done any time in or out of warranty

Sinar
Adapter system (shims may be required)
Cost: $661 - $2537 per adapter
When: can be done any time in or out of warranty

Phase One
Platform swap (no shims required)
Option #1) Cost: Free (with 3 year Value Add Warranty)
When: can be done any time within 3 year warranty period
Option #2) Cost: $2,500 (with 1 year Classic Warranty)
When: can be done any time in or out of warranty


Steve Hendrix
Phase One

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I do have a question here though. Can you take a H3 with a 39 mpx sensor back and switch it to another body or are they a matched pair

 

[fotografz]

I do have a question here though. Can you take a H3 with a 39 mpx sensor back and switch it to another body or are they a matched pair

They're matched, but the back works on viewcameras or any sync driven camera with a H adapter.

If you want interchangability, then the CF backs are there for that choice. Also, CF backs do not need a separate battery or Image bank to use them on a tech camera ... but the Image Bank will work with them if you wish that option.

 

[Graham Mitchell]

Phase One offers a free platform swap with the Value Added (and highly recommended) 3-year Warranty. Even less money than an adapter from Sinar .

Well the Sinar adapters start at €365.- (RRP, so could be cheaper in reality)

How much is the Value Added Warranty?

Besides this misses the point that with the adapter system, you are free to use multiple platforms on the same day. A studio can share a back across various cameras, or you can enjoy the flexibility of using the same back on your chosen leaf shutter system AND focal plane shutter system.

 

[Graham Mitchell]

Hi All,
I'll also assume that the small huffiness I feel about Hassy doing lens correction in software rather than in lens is misplaced: I use an M8 and that is also doing lens correction in software and that really doesn't bother me.

Doesn't the M8 just perform vignette correction? That does not shift pixels around with the subsequent loss of detail. In other words, not all software correction is equal!