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H3DII39 or P45+

Graham Mitchell

New member
Re: Rhttp://forum.getdpi.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&pe: H3DII39 or

In fact all of the companies, including Phase (see Capture One 4.5.1) do some form of lens correction in software.
I am not aware of any lens correction being performed by Sinar software. Was this a mistake or can you provide any information?
 

Graham Mitchell

New member
Re: Rhttp://forum.getdpi.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&pe: H3DII39 or

Also, if you're shooting landscapes you may find that in the long run you may switch to a tech camera such as the Horeseman SWD or Cambo WDS/RS. These bodies are built for landscape; they are slow as molasses to work with (relatively at least, still much faster than a film view camera) but offer absolutely unbeatable lens quality
This is absolutely true. If you want the best machine for landscapes, you are better off using a view camera with lenses such as Rodenstock HR. Try and find image samples on websites such as alpa.ch and you'll see what I mean
 

Graham Mitchell

New member
Re: Rhttp://forum.getdpi.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&pe: H3DII39 or

Our advantage is that you can shoot view camera or technical camera without having to deal with any external power sources, battery or what have you if you don't wish to.
And just for the record this is also true of the Sinar eMotion and eSprit backs.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Doesn't the M8 just perform vignette correction? That does not shift pixels around with the subsequent loss of detail. In other words, not all software correction is equal!
Where is there information about "subsequent loss of detail" from "shifting pixels around" that you mention?

The software corrections are optional and can be selected individually if preferred. Contrary to what you are saying ... in practice, correcting CA specific to a lens improves the image quality as there is virtually none once applied.

I've yet to encounter a wide angle SLR lens without some distortion, so the distortion correction is also a welcome software correction ... whether from Hasselblad or Phase One.

My shooting experiences and results do not support your theory.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
One option not discussed so far IF one prefers a more open system AND prefers the Hasselblad H camera ...

The new H2F with a CF/39 digital back.

Unlike a H2, the H2F provides many of the current digital advantages when used with HC lenses, including use of the H/C 28mm and digital software corrections.

The CF digital back can be used on virtually all MF cameras via a system of relatively inexpensive iAdapters, or on a tech camera with a H adapter ... so use it on a H camera (H1, H2, H2F), or a RZ/RB, or on a Mamiya 645, or Contax 645, or Fuji GX, or a Rollie 6000 AF ... at any time ... no mount swap needed.

http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/133781/uk_cf_datasheet_v2.pdf

The CF backs use a clip-on, easy to find Sony battery available in various strengths to match your shooting needs ... so are fully portable without the need for the Image bank or thether ... but both can be used if desired.

Like with all the H cameras, all CF, CFi and CFE Zeiss optics can be used via the CF Adapter including the new 40IF and the legendary Zeiss APO teles ... and unlike other adapted lens systems, these are fully auto aperture so one need not stop down meter or shoot.
 

Graham Mitchell

New member
Where is there information about "subsequent loss of detail" from "shifting pixels around" that you mention?
Any geometric transformation applied to a bitmap will introduce 'smearing' and loss of detail. It is for this reason that correcting lens distortion in Photoshop will never beat a good tilt/shift lens and a photo taken properly first time.

But don't take my word for it.

Even correction of CA will reduce the detail per channel but it is an acceptable trade off because the RGB image as a whole can be much improved.
 

carstenw

Active member
I have to say that Sinar's adapter solution really stands out here (and I don't own a back yet, so no owner-bias here). I don't know if the CF adapters can also be swapped by the user, but if so, that holds here too.

Having to send away a back to change camera system is madness. Bundling adapter switching with a warranty is not a good business model, *for the photographer*. It is great for Phase One, and possibly the distributors, because as you say, Doug, most people never use it. In other words, you pay for something you don't use. And no, it is not free. The cost is built-in and not unbundleable.

IMO, everything should have an individual pricetag on it, and a fair one at that. Bundles should save a little, but if bundles save a lot over the individual services, then the individual prices are in most cases likely not fair in the first place.


This whole issue really makes me lean towards Sinar. The adapters are expensive, but you know what you are paying for, and you know if you need it or not.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Carsten you have a choice to buy the Value added warranty or not. It is 3 k it does include a swap mount in it, it also includes a free loaner program not sure any one else actually advertises that or does that ( they may but i never hear it advertised). You also get a Hassy adapter plus several other things with this price. If you do not buy the value added which you save that cost but say at a latter time you decide to switch than it would be 2500.00 . I personally did not buy it. I would sell it first. Please the 3 year warranty you get with Sinar and do NOT let anyone fill your pants with anything that cost is built into the price of the back and you are paying for it just like any other product out there with a 3 year warranty BMW for example with maintenance free 3 year warranty there is a price built into it with that purchase. Yes the adapters are less than a full swap but you have to weigh these factors in if you do swaps or not. I will not so i did not buy the VA and saved some money. There are 5 different camera's out there what are you going to swap too really without having a complete lens system for it and what advantage does it really bring unless you sell your camera system but reality now is the backs are bundled with free camera's and all of them do that now. So it makes almost more sense to sell everything anyway because the new back you buy may have more features in it after 2 years of ownership. The other issue is we can always use a Alpa, Cambo , Horseman or a view camera with any mount we have. Honestly i see no reason for swaps in the overall picture of this, I figure just easier to sell the package and move to whatever you want but that is my thinking and i saved 3k up front. Now I did lose some benefit of course but i switch system faster than some folks drink water. LOL

Honestly as a buyer you have to sit down and figure out your future plan. A swap may makes sense for some and for others it makes no sense. This is exactly why most of us here say the same thing day in and day out. Try as many systems and do your homework before buying any of them. It all sounds good on paper but reality is a different ball game . Some folks have 2 or more MF systems so it may make sense , good for them but I can't afford that luxury. The question is do you plan on that.
 

carstenw

Active member
Right, so either you go for the extended warranty (you didn't, I wouldn't), or you pay 2500 for the adapter change.

Like you I am also unlikely to switch. But I can imagine it. I can imagine wanting to go from 645 to a full MF square camera like the V series, or the Hy6, and I can also imagine wanting to try out the Mamiya RZ. More likely though is wanting to use the same back on a view camera. The separate, user-changeable adapters is just a really nice approach. I imagine that it would also increase resale value of a back, since suddenly all camera brands can use it, rather than just one system.

Anyway, everyone has to decide for himself, but personally, I dislike bundles which you cannot unbundle in a cost-effective fashion. In the case of Phase, either the warranty, loaners and so on should also be available for about $500 separately, maybe a little higher, or the $2500 adapter-change price is a total ripoff.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
If you had a Phase back not saying to get one but there is a plate for the RZ for 400 dollars I think . The view camera's and tech camera's all come with your mount plate or you may need to buy them anyway. The Alpa , Cambo and Horseman are without plates so you need to buy one for whatever mount you have. No real difference here. Honestly the only real difference overall or I should say the most useful feature is a leaf shutter and a focal plane shutter and that will change in time. Mamiya will have leaf shutter lenses so that would eliminate a switch for some folks between systems. Now I should add here that Hassy adapter takes all the V lenses, so buying a V body may not make sense too unless you need the leaf shutter. You have a Contax so that also gives you lot's of lens options and lens adapters also.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I have to say that Sinar's adapter solution really stands out here (and I don't own a back yet, so no owner-bias here). I don't know if the CF adapters can also be swapped by the user, but if so, that holds here too.

Having to send away a back to change camera system is madness. Bundling adapter switching with a warranty is not a good business model, *for the photographer*. It is great for Phase One, and possibly the distributors, because as you say, Doug, most people never use it. In other words, you pay for something you don't use. And no, it is not free. The cost is built-in and not unbundleable.

IMO, everything should have an individual pricetag on it, and a fair one at that. Bundles should save a little, but if bundles save a lot over the individual services, then the individual prices are in most cases likely not fair in the first place.


This whole issue really makes me lean towards Sinar. The adapters are expensive, but you know what you are paying for, and you know if you need it or not.
Yes, the Hasselblad CF Digital back iAdapters are user exchangable. Very easy actually.
 

Paratom

Well-known member
Yes, the Hasselblad CF Digital back iAdapters are user exchangable. Very easy actually.
I just browsed through the info about the CF backs. Sounds great, if someone would think about using a back on a traditional camera like a Hasselblad 205 or 503 but also use a Mamiya with AF sometimes.
However prices seems pretty high for those Backs.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
For some people, mount swaps could be a decent idea as long as they remain available.

When Leaf went to the AFi Hy6 system, suddenly I could NOT swap mounts on my $30K Aptus 75s to use it on the AFi, even though the AFi 7 digital back was the same sensor and performance. :angry: Not one hint about that little detail when I purchased the Aptus 75s.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I just browsed through the info about the CF backs. Sounds great, if someone would think about using a back on a traditional camera like a Hasselblad 205 or 503 but also use a Mamiya with AF sometimes.
However prices seems pretty high for those Backs.
Talk to a dealer about pricing. Not as high as one might think when you get down to bargaining. There are some decent deals on demo/refurb CFs also ... including a 39 Multi-Shot.

BTW, no back from anyone works on a Hasselblad 200 series camera and retains full functions except the Hasselblad CFV ... which is a crop sensor 16 meg dedicated digital back for use on all V series cameras 500 or 200 type. The CF backs work on 500 series cameras but not the 200 series ... nothing from Sinar, Phase One or Leaf will work full function either.
 

Paratom

Well-known member
I am still very interested in that CFV back.
One question: does the 30/3.5 not work with the cvf back or with the 503cwd or why does everyone only mention the 40?
Thanks again, Tom
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I am still very interested in that CFV back.
One question: does the 30/3.5 not work with the cvf back or with the 503cwd or why does everyone only mention the 40?
Thanks again, Tom
Yes Tom, the 30mm f/3.5 works with the CFV back. Don't know if you know this, but the 30mm is a fisheye lens. I personally like it for a lot of fun shots.
BTW, I can use the 30mm on my H system cameras also, or with a film back on a 500 series camera, or set the lens to F and use it on a 200 series focal plane camera with film or the CFV digital back. : -)
 
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