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Can't get accurate colour from C1

yaya

Active member
FWIW, I have been unable to PRINT from C1 and get anything remotely color matched. If I export a TIFF and print from Lightroom, Photoshop, or Aperture, then all is well. If I print a test jpeg from C1, it looks good as well.. What has not worked at all is printing directly from a RAW file within C1. (This is on a Mac Pro with OS 10.7.4, and C1 6.x)

I'm not the only one, as I've seen this mentioned on the C1 fora, but haven't checked recently to see if it has been fixed. Ill try again when C1 7 comes out.

--Matt
You should check that your print settings are consistent acroos these apps Matt
 

Shashin

Well-known member
I am not sure why shooting reproductions is that difficult with C1? This is done with a P25+ back, Linhof View Camera, cheap Norman strobes with soft boxes, and no polarization, although the lens has an IR cut filter. This is a 100% crop. Your results are worse?
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
You should check that your print settings are consistent acroos these apps Matt
Yair,

While it is always possible to get these things wrong no matter how experienced, I was extremely careful going down the printer settlings checklist. It also works perfectly printing an imported jpeg with the same printer settings. (Indistinguishable from the LR4 or Aperture output). The problem doesn't resemble double profiling - it's more of a slight cyan cast and lack of contrast. I'll try letting the printer manage colors next time, but I never do that with other programs.

It's not more than a minor annoyance, as I don't use C1 for file management, so all final versions for print are exported to Aperture or Lightroom anyway.

Best,

Matt
 

yaya

Active member
Matt would you mind submitting a support case for this? It'll help us investigate this issue and see if this is a bug or something else...we'll need to know what OS you're running, what printer, your C1 colour settings etc.

Contact Support

Thanks!
 

Ben Rubinstein

Active member
I am not sure why shooting reproductions is that difficult with C1? This is done with a P25+ back, Linhof View Camera, cheap Norman strobes with soft boxes, and no polarization, although the lens has an IR cut filter. This is a 100% crop. Your results are worse?
Unless I see the original I don't know how I could comment?
 

Ben Rubinstein

Active member
Sorry, I was not implying you are stupid. I am thinking about a solution and rather handicapped by not seeing anything. Sometimes we can overlook an obvious factor.

I have shot books for an exhibition catalog. Books don't have a black and the pages are dull--they are low-contrst targets. When you pump the contrast, the colors are hard to control and you see unwanted color in the paper. The problem does not come down to simple color management and profiling.

After I had finished this, I came across the LAB color space. I am wondering if that would be a better way to control the reproduction as the color and contrast are separate. You can increase the contrast while desaturating the color. LAB seems a difficult space to work in, but once you figure out a few basics, it is really not that hard, like if the A or B color curve intersects the center, there is no color shifts. The slope of the curve changes saturation and the movement of the curve impacts hue. The lightness curve is all about contrast.
I meant I would have been stupid to have missed something so obvious.

LAB sounds nice but we are shooting around 25,000 files every 3 months or so. We need a WYSIWYG solution, straight from camera to finished file via a white balance change or so. We do not begin to have the time to deal with individual files.

I am assured by Stefan Steib, the colour expert for the BSB in Munich that not only is it possible using custom profiles but as a consultant he has travelled the world setting it up for repro studios to achieve close to true colour accuracy. This is the kind of thing we need and we are indeed considering bringing him over at some point to set everything up, not only for our past work but for the future too.

The great thing about hiring an expert to do this is that a) it's no longer on my head b) I have someone to blame and fix things if it doesn't work! rather than me taking the rap :D
 

Ben Rubinstein

Active member
When I get into work tomorrow and if I have the time I will post a sample page from the book that brought home to us just how bad the problem was to show what we are dealing with?
 
Ben, I don't want to run people's s/ware into the ground, especially online (i know you had some idea to select a package). I think given the volumes you're talking about it would be worth engaging someone experienced.

There's no magic bullet and as easy as people think it may be, it is really tough to reproduce near true colour. Adobe/xrite solution via colour passport only seems to work because Nikon/canon profiles are so bad to start with. But a good profile is only a start point. You'll need to get yourself into a situation where it is a repeatable process, and that is what you should expect for any $ spent.

I hope your decisions work out
Paul
 

Ben Rubinstein

Active member
Thanks Paul, it's the route I've advised the bosses to take, they're waiting for us to move to the permanent studio so they don't have to pay twice.
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Yair,

I *think* I managed to navigate the Phase One website to submit a problem, but I have my doubts. Here's what I'm seeing. This is a photo of two prints: the top one is from Capture One printed directly, the bottom one is from Aperture, printing a TIFF exported from C1. The bottom one is correct.



My Capture One session lives in the Profoto color space, but it should know how to handle that, right? And I have all printer color management turned off.

Mac OS 10.7.4, Epson 3880, C1 6.4.3

Disclaimer: The RAW file is from a Canon 1DsII, so this may be the wrong forum. :facesmack:

Best,

Matt
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Problem solved! C1 support suggested that I first generate a TIFF and then print from that. One more step than Aperture or Lightroom, but it worked beautifully, and, I suppose, you have the printable TIFF around for future printing.

C1 support was fast and communicative. I'm impressed. :thumbs:

Best,

Matt
 
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