Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

[Uaiomex]

CFV 50 with a rotating sensor. It would ignite Jupiter!
Eduardo

I do hope senior management in Hasselblad would read this post.

Both Hasselblad, and Leica are legendary cameras manufacturers. In so many years, they produce so many fine cameras and lens, they are not just a piece photo gear, they are piece of gem to many owners. Many of such legendary cameras vanished in the digital era. But some survive and continue to be leading camera gear manufacturer, like Leica. It is because they value their customers, and protect their investments.

For many photographers, a lens not just a gear, they have taken many good pictures with it, and it is part of their memory. They do not want them to be left alone. I saw people use their “antique” lens on their Leica M9, or M8. Hasselblad have many fine lenses, and what I saw is people are using it on Nikon, Pentax, or Mamiya, and they are not use it with Hasselblad. I have a 203FE, I was so affair to use it as I worry that I cannot get replacement if they have any problem.

Hasselblad was once on the hand of some greedy businessman, when they migrate to digital system, they change everything, and make their customer to re-invest whatever they own. I bought a CFV39 which is cost me a fortune. But, something I do want to take picture with modern camera like H, and sorry, I have to buy another system. It is impossible for me, but even if you are rich, how can you carry so many gear with you in a trip.You don't win customer's royalty with such skinning strategy.
I hope Hasselblad new owner could bring some changes, I hope they would manufacture a new model of H, say "H4v" that allow use to use both H and V lens with minimum conversion (the existing converter is clumsy and not acceptable.) and also V back.

 

[EH21]

I have tested the D800 vs my IQ180. I haven't done a full test, but I can say that in dark scenes (exposure around 1/2s) the D800 kills the IQ180 when it comes to DR. I can open up more shadows and they are much cleaner. My IQ180 shows slight banding after pushing 2/3 stops, but the D800 stays clean and only shows little noise. (lowest base ISO on both cameras)

Why haven't I posted anything ? Well, I want to do more testing first and would even like to get my hands on a second IQ and D800, just to check whether these tests were correct.

Color wise and such I prefer much the IQ, but DR wise the D800 is the best camera I have seen so far.

Yes you can lift the shadows very well with the d800 and your comment about the color is something I noticed as well. But regarding DR, take a look next time you have a chance to compare for darkest detail. I found that while you could lift the shadows much more cleanly with the d800 the darkest detail was still recorded by the Aptus 80. Kind of weird but that's what I saw, more real shadow detail, but just not able to push it way up without noise. D800 could push up but at the darkest its just flat black getting flat grey.

 

[fotografz]

I do hope senior management in Hasselblad would read this post.

Both Hasselblad, and Leica are legendary cameras manufacturers. In so many years, they produce so many fine cameras and lens, they are not just a piece photo gear, they are piece of gem to many owners. Many of such legendary cameras vanished in the digital era. But some survive and continue to be leading camera gear manufacturer, like Leica. It is because they value their customers, and protect their investments.

For many photographers, a lens not just a gear, they have taken many good pictures with it, and it is part of their memory. They do not want them to be left alone. I saw people use their “antique” lens on their Leica M9, or M8. Hasselblad have many fine lenses, and what I saw is people are using it on Nikon, Pentax, or Mamiya, and they are not use it with Hasselblad. I have a 203FE, I was so affair to use it as I worry that I cannot get replacement if they have any problem.

Hasselblad was once on the hand of some greedy businessman, when they migrate to digital system, they change everything, and make their customer to re-invest whatever they own. I bought a CFV39 which is cost me a fortune. But, something I do want to take picture with modern camera like H, and sorry, I have to buy another system. It is impossible for me, but even if you are rich, how can you carry so many gear with you in a trip.You don't win customer's royalty with such skinning strategy.
I hope Hasselblad new owner could bring some changes, I hope they would manufacture a new model of H, say "H4v" that allow use to use both H and V lens with minimum conversion (the existing converter is clumsy and not acceptable.) and also V back.

Nice post.

For years now I have wished and hoped for Hasselblad to engineer one change to the H system ... make it a dual shutter camera ... which would have opened up new possibilities for both their own H series lenses, as well as use of most all the CF/CFi/CFE and F/FE V lenses in focal plane (F) mode via a simple V to H adapter.

The Phase One camera can also use some Schneider Leaf shutter lenses and can use many MF focal plane shutter lenses including the Zeiss V series. The Leica S2 is also a dual shutter camera, can use the V lenses, and as of recent can also use the H series lenses either in Leaf shutter or focal plane mode by using the H to S electronic adapter.

However, the problem with using all the legacy Zeiss V leaf shutter lenses on LS Mode is that they are mechanical in an electronic age. There is no way to cock the leaf shutter except with a mechanical device like the CF Adapter.

In each case, when using a mechanical legacy lens like the CF/CFi/CFE in F mode, or the F/FE, these Zeiss lenses are "dumb" on any focal plane camera you mount it to ... requiring stop-down metering and shooting. This is fine for some, but is not fine with many others ... thus reducing the appeal as each camera maker improves their own fully functional series of lenses. It is difficult for small niche camera companies to engineer limited appeal devices in a category that is already of limited appeal.

The most you could hope for is either a dual shutter H camera, or a new Hasselblad camera that eliminates the shutter altogether and uses electronic activation of the sensor capture, or something like that.

Maybe this new Hasselblad camera will fulfill your dreams Or not

-Marc

 

[Digitalcameraman]

I have one for you, what if Phase One did the same? They already have the body to do that with their industrial camera body, already have the back to do that with the IQ series Live View, just need the integration of the EVF and that would get me pretty excited.

Sincerely,
Chris Snipes
Sales Manager Florida
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Here is an interesting idea: what if Hasselblad retrofitted their existing H series camera without a mirror, a CMOS chip and some sort of EVF viewfinder that replaced the current prism?

 

[Andy Biggs]

What if the Hasselblad announcement is 100% made by Fuji and only branded as a Hasselblad product? What about something like a 16x19 version of the Fuji X-1 Pro? Just kicking around ideas here.

 

[dougpeterson]

CFV 50 with a rotating sensor. It would ignite Jupiter!

You mean a high res digital back that fits directly on any 500 series, has an internally rotating sensor, allows you to enter metadata for the lens into the raw file, allows color cast and vignette correction to be loaded directly into the back, allows accurate (if somewhat slow) 100% views of focus/detail, produces raw files that can be read in LightRoom, preferably with a sensor known for it's great rendition of skin tones and tonal gradations? Preferably made by a company that has shown a continuing and real interest in making backs/innovations for the V platform well into the future?

We have that; it's called a Mamiya Leaf Aptus II 10R or 12R. We even have one in pre-owned inventory.

It's a great back. But, to my knowledge, Jupitor is not on fire.

 

[JorisV]

We have that; it's called a Mamiya Leaf Aptus II 10R or 12R. We even have one in pre-owned inventory.

It's a great back. But, to my knowledge, Jupitor is not on fire.

There is a big price difference though: $17K (CFV50) versus $26K/$32K (Leaf).

And Leaf decided to drop the unique rotating sensor solution so at present the assumption is that it will not be available in the Credo and any other future models.

Also the Leaf Aptus II does require a cable if I recall correctly.

Let me just add that neither of them is full frame which would even be nicer

 

[BANKER1]

@ Andy

What is your fixation with Fuji? If Hasselblad comes out with a rebadged Fuji they would lose all their credibility not to mention a mass of customers. Yes, yes I know about XPan, but really, is that all you can think about. And I can tell you that if they happen to do what you say, they will lose me as a customer.

@ Doug

No that is not what he meant. He was specifically talking about Hasselbald. Spare us the sales pitch.

Greg

 

[Andy Biggs]

Greg, it's not a fixation. It's a reality. Fuji is Hasselblad's largest partner, so naturally we look to them for many of the solutions that Hasselblad could introduce.

 

[Bill_Green]

@ Andy

What is your fixation with Fuji? If Hasselblad comes out with a rebadged Fuji they would lose all their credibility not to mention a mass of customers.

You mean like the entire H series (or at the very least the H1 and H lenses)?

 

[BANKER1]

Most people know that Hasselblad designs every one of their lenses and Fuji produces them. Where do you think Schneider and Rodenstock lenses are produced? As for the H camera, I am very happy with it and all its features. Maybe Phase One would be well served to find a partner to make a camera to their specifications. Their camera has been "forthcoming" for years. And most of us know where the most important part of the Hasselblad system, the digital back, is produced.

My hope has always been to embrace the good qualities of all the systems from which we have to choose. But, I guess, there will always be the naysayers to show us how important that is.

Greg

 

[Anders_HK]

You mean a high res digital back that fits directly on any 500 series, has an internally rotating sensor, allows you to enter metadata for the lens into the raw file, allows color cast and vignette correction to be loaded directly into the back, allows accurate (if somewhat slow) 100% views of focus/detail, produces raw files that can be read in LightRoom, preferably with a sensor known for it's great rendition of skin tones and tonal gradations? Preferably made by a company that has shown a continuing and real interest in making backs/innovations for the V platform well into the future?

We have that; it's called a Mamiya Leaf Aptus II 10R or 12R. We even have one in pre-owned inventory.

It's a great back. But, to my knowledge, Jupitor is not on fire.

Oh no :bugeyes: It is still called Leaf Aptus-II 10R and 12R still, is it not??? Dont let them change the name to include Mamiya

And about the camera... Early last year I thought I was going with a V, but was introduced to the Hy6. It blew me away, fits what should been a modern V; modern, AF, balanced, lenses arguably better... and with the AFi-II 10 and 12, rotating sensor, tilt display, modern design.

Credo? Why? Already very happy with AFi, have an iPhone, why give up $$ for no rotating sensor and no tilt display? The awesome is that Hy6 is one of best cameras I have used and fits as extension of my brain in visualizing and making images. :thumbs:

Sort of wish Rollei and Hassy would merge... Wishful... Quality made in Europe :banghead:

 

[Uaiomex]

It's not made by Hasselblad. It needs a tangling cable to work and it looks "frankensteinish" on a V. BTW, how much are the pre-owned 10r or 12r? Those are my other dream backs besides the P45+.
Eduardo

You mean a high res digital back that fits directly on any 500 series, has an internally rotating sensor, allows you to enter metadata for the lens into the raw file, allows color cast and vignette correction to be loaded directly into the back, allows accurate (if somewhat slow) 100% views of focus/detail, produces raw files that can be read in LightRoom, preferably with a sensor known for it's great rendition of skin tones and tonal gradations? Preferably made by a company that has shown a continuing and real interest in making backs/innovations for the V platform well into the future?

We have that; it's called a Mamiya Leaf Aptus II 10R or 12R. We even have one in pre-owned inventory.

It's a great back. But, to my knowledge, Jupitor is not on fire.

 

[georgl]

Most people know that Hasselblad designs every one of their lenses and Fuji produces them

The issue here is the definition of "design" - Hasselblad gave the "requirements specifications": focal length, speed, size, price, usable for the central shutter (which is not made by Fuji) and certain quality requirements. Then Fuji designs and manufactures the lenses. Designing the optical elements requires very specific know-how, many companies even use proprietary software for optical design.
For the SK-lenses for Phase One made by Mamiya and the Zeiss-lenses made by Cosina the opposite is true: the optical design is made by the company which also offers the brand name but according to the limitations of the manufacturer and is then off-shored for production. The reason? Make it to the price and quality of cheaper products but give it the image of a brand which promises higher quality standards - a risky game. IMHO, it doesn't make sense, I doubt that a Mamiya-lens is necessarily worse than a SK-design made by Mamiya.
As far as I know, Rodenstock doesn't play this game.

Zeiss shows the difference quite clearly, their advanced designs (incorporating special technologies) are not given to Cosina or other manufacturers. Lenses like the 40IF or the Superachromats can not be manufactured by others.

 

[fotografz]

What if the Hasselblad announcement is 100% made by Fuji and only branded as a Hasselblad product? What about something like a 16x19 version of the Fuji X-1 Pro? Just kicking around ideas here.

Do you mean like the Hasselblad XPan was? Who cares? Everyone knew the Xpan was a Hassey commissioned camera and Fuji made it and the lenses, but those that embraced the camera LOVED it, and wishes it would be reincarnated in a digital version.

I would assume that Hasselblad exercises some standards control just like Carl Zeiss did with the Contax optics made in Japan ... some of the initial Zeiss Contax N lenses were delayed because Zeiss rejected the first production runs.

-Marc

 

[fotografz]

The issue here is the definition of "design" - Hasselblad gave the "requirements specifications": focal length, speed, size, price, usable for the central shutter (which is not made by Fuji) and certain quality requirements. Then Fuji designs and manufactures the lenses. Designing the optical elements requires very specific know-how, many companies even use proprietary software for optical design.
For the SK-lenses for Phase One made by Mamiya and the Zeiss-lenses made by Cosina the opposite is true: the optical design is made by the company which also offers the brand name but according to the limitations of the manufacturer and is then off-shored for production. The reason? Make it to the price and quality of cheaper products but give it the image of a brand which promises higher quality standards - a risky game. IMHO, it doesn't make sense, I doubt that a Mamiya-lens is necessarily worse than a SK-design made by Mamiya.
As far as I know, Rodenstock doesn't play this game.

Zeiss shows the difference quite clearly, their advanced designs (incorporating special technologies) are not given to Cosina or other manufacturers. Lenses like the 40IF or the Superachromats can not be manufactured by others.

Seems we're mincing words here ... I seriously doubt some Hasselblad engineer is jotting down specifications on a bar napkin and faxing it to Fuji To even ask for certain specifications requires some optical knowledge, and cross pollination to fit with-in reality.

Hasselblad also has to have major input as to what their cameras can do, and what is possible in the digital realm with software ... a concept widely poo-pooed initially, then adopted by almost everyone including Leica for their S lenses . Given the choice of a $10,000 lenses that is a little better than others, and a $5,000 one that requires a one button click on free software to equal the expensive one ... well ...

I'd agree that the off-shore game would be risky if it were not for the decade long proven track record of the Hasselblad/Fuji partnership ... and the continued collaboration that has brought Hassey users the more advanced designs of the new HC50-II, 150N and 120-II not to mention the highly rated HCD-35-90.

Hasselblad puts their name on the camera, back and lenses because it is their product and their responsibility, not Fuji's ... which is like a car maker who doesn't put some major suppliers name on their cars either ... otherwise, the Audi Quattro would have been named "American Axel"

As too the Zeiss examples, yes they are stellar and not affordable to a vast masjority of the world's photographers ... and they aren't AF ... and as far as the 40IF, it was lots better, but not perfect with distortion requiring ... software corrections

-Marc

 

[stephengilbert]

As Marc said two posts ago, "Who cares."

It seems some Hassy fans care about the words people use about their cameras. People who have some gripe about Hasselblad bring up Fuji, and its defenders often seem to bite. Who cares who makes the parts so long as they're made well and work as they should? It's not like Fuji is some fly by night operation.

 

[Andy Biggs]

I agree. I certainly don't care. Just trying to back into what could be announced, based on what we know and who the relationships are. I didn't know the whole Fuji thing was such a sensitive topic, otherwise I would have stayed away from making predictions of my own.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Fuji on one hand and the word Mamiya seem to be sensitive areas and for the life of me I can't figure out why when they are both great companies that produce great stuff. Sure they may have had some dogs along the way but this is now and everything is done by computers and high end engineers that know what they are doing. I don't discount anyone because of there name. Most of these companies have been merged, bought and sold a hundred times by now. It's what they produce what counts.

 

[georgl]

Seems we're mincing words here ... I seriously doubt some Hasselblad engineer is jotting down specifications on a bar napkin and faxing it to Fuji To even ask for certain specifications requires some optical knowledge, and cross pollination to fit with-in reality.

It propably happened like this - maybe some meetings defining basic possibilities, what's possible and what's not. But Hasselblad sending over optical designs to Fuji? I know that people got used to sloppy definitions of "made in" or "designed by" - a brand or just QC doesn't define quality, engineers and skillled craftsmen do. Many business-people, managers and controllers have absolutely no problem to re-brand sub-standard products or suppliers even when ruining the brand itself in the long-run.

Hasselblad set the quality standard in medium format for decades and then they fired the majority of workers responsible for this quality standard to fulfill the wishes of Shriro... Yes, that makes me angry. Also killing off the Hy6...
They were selling cameras (propably even more than before) but avoided major investments into their Gothenburg-based production by off-shoring most of the work to Fuji. And the mechanics are a noticeable downgrade to the "real" Hasselblads.

Zeiss wasn't strongly affected by losing Hasselblad as a customer but nevertheless, interesting design upgrades and new technologies never became available for professional photographers, they brought the cinematography-lenses to an entirely new standard within the last decade, but in 2012, most medium format-lenses are still at the technical level of the 1970s...
As an engineer and keeping people in mind who spend 30k$ on a MFDB, it just makes me sad that superior technology and quality standards are abandoned in favour of shareholder-value...

When there will be a EVIL-Hasselblad, it better be good Newly developed Zeiss-lenses would be a major selling point compared to Phase One or Nikon... And a full-metal body resembling the chrome-plated aluiminium-bodies of the 200/500-series would be interesting as well.