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Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

MaxKißler

New member
It will be interesting to read about all the frustration and disappointment built up by all that desire and high expectations when Hasselblad will release just something like a H4D-80 but nothing truely new...
 

Dustbak

Member
Which is pretty much what I am expecting, maybe the really exciting part will be the battery solution for both the H4D60 and the H4D80.... (that would make some people really joyful)
 

ondebanks

Member
...but in 2012, most medium format-lenses are still at the technical level of the 1970s...
Ah, come now. No medium format lens in the 1970s had aspherical elements, vanishingly few had exotic low dispersion (ED or ULD) glass or could be truly called APOs, and multicoating was only a few layers thick. Leaf shutters were slower, and imprecisely timed by springs (except the Rollei SLX). There was no AF or IF.

It's not that all those things are essential to create technically great images - some lenses of that generation can scarcely be bettered today, and I'm still happy to use them. But it's not accurate to say that MF lens designs have not moved on in the years since.

I have noticed a strong correlation between lens design generation and performance, especially among the Japanese MF manufacturers. Mamiya, Bronica, Pentax and Fuji really upped their lens game from about the mid-1980s onwards. I find that those who are dismissive of say, M645 or RB67 or Pentax 67 glass, are typically talking about their experiences with some of the 1970s designs. Again, that is not to say that some of the older designs are not also stellar: the Mamiya 24mm ULD fisheye has never been surpassed in MF, to take one example, and used samples still command a 4-digit dollar price to this day, because it's just so damn good even on the 60 and 80 MP digital backs. But look at what Mamiya had in the 1970s (1st gen RB67 and M645 lenses; plus mainly-1960s-designed TLR and Press lenses) and compare it to what they designed in the 1990s: new APO telephotos for the M645, 645AF, RB and RZ; 120/4 macro; K/L lenses for the RB; L lenses and ULD wideangles for the RZ; the entire lens ranges of the Mamiya 6 and the Mamiya 7! And you're telling me they're not technically better?

I'm not as familiar with the Hasselblad lenses, but when Marc says he sold all his V lenses when he tested them against his H lenses, I believe he knew exactly what he was doing.

Ray
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I think the excitement and speculative anticipation is driven by the wording of the press release.

Using a historical reference to the launch of the H system seems to promise something quite new in MFD ... which I doubt would be the more specialized digital Xpan and more on the magnitude of the H system at the time of it's unveiling ... which was new from the ground up.

Depends on the level of hype injected into the press release, but the way I read it the release seems to strongly hint that the H is being replaced, or augmented with a totally new camera.

What it might be is anyone's guess ... but I will say there is nothing about it that I've been able to squeeze out of anyone. Not a peep, squeak, or vague hint what-so-ever.

Yes, the H4D/60 battery would make me happy :thumbup:

-Marc
 

Miller

Member
Marc,

I think the ambition the new owners have worded when acquiring the company also may play a role.
Anyhow, let's hope that the excitement of all the non-Hasselblad users does not take its toll...:watch:

Frans Rutten
 

jduncan

Active member
It will be interesting to read about all the frustration and disappointment built up by all that desire and high expectations when Hasselblad will release just something like a H4D-80 but nothing truely new...
In my case before committing money for a MF system, I need MF manufacturers to show that they are committed first.

In the case of Hasselblad the new group have had little time to build something fully new.

If something truly new appears it's more likely the reason they buy, or if build on this short timeframe maybe a buggy implementation.

If they introduce a H4D-80 or a H5D-80 and they announce at Photokina or soon later a H4D-320 I will be more than happy.

MS camera with a Dalsa sensor will show the will to invest.

Jut introducing a H4D-80 will not be enough.
A supreme H5D system will do even without the MS Dalsa.

In different words, at this moment for me, is show me that you are not taking the last revenue out of a dying product.

Show me that you believe in your product.

Best regards,
James
 

rmueller

Well-known member
I'll second that as i received an invitation from Hasselblad yesterday
for photokina 2012. With the invitation they did send a note that they
are going to sell all of their CFV and H4D bodies demo gear now
(including the H4D-60 and H4D-200MS).

They did sell few pieces here and there in the past
(my wife was lucky to grab the CFV-16 from them) but
never sold the entire set of bodies they carry to
shows and HB dealer events etc.

Anyway, we all know more in less than three weeks from now.

I think the excitement and speculative anticipation is driven by the wording of the press release.

Using a historical reference to the launch of the H system seems to promise something quite new in MFD ... which I doubt would be the more specialized digital Xpan and more on the magnitude of the H system at the time of it's unveiling ... which was new from the ground up.

Depends on the level of hype injected into the press release, but the way I read it the release seems to strongly hint that the H is being replaced, or augmented with a totally new camera.

What it might be is anyone's guess ... but I will say there is nothing about it that I've been able to squeeze out of anyone. Not a peep, squeak, or vague hint what-so-ever.

Yes, the H4D/60 battery would make me happy :thumbup:

-Marc
 

jotloob

Subscriber Member
Ralf

I got that invitation from Mr.Seidel yesterday as well and was wondering
why they would sell Demo Gear before the photkina and not after .
Do they want to get rid of all H4Dxx gear because a new system comes along ?:bugeyes:
 

rmueller

Well-known member
Hi Jürgen (and sorry for not talking to you for quite some time but i was a little bit "under water" with some other stuff the last couple of months),

from the list they send it appears to be the entire set of bodies they have
as demo gear.

So now draw your own conclusions :grin:

Cheers,
Ralf


Ralf

I got that invitation from Mr.Seidel yesterday as well and was wondering
why they would sell Demo Gear before the photkina and not after .
Do they want to get rid of all H4Dxx gear because a new system comes along ?:bugeyes:
 

KeithL

Well-known member
from the list they send it appears to be the entire set of bodies they have
as demo gear.
This gets more and more interesting.

In the UK the Procentre has massive discounts on most of their pre-owned H series stock but not on the V series.

As you say "draw your own conclusions".
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Marc,

I think the ambition the new owners have worded when acquiring the company also may play a role.
Anyhow, let's hope that the excitement of all the non-Hasselblad users does not take its toll...:watch:

Frans Rutten
Yes Frans, I am holding my enthusiasm in check for now.

Another speculative point could be deduced from the nature of the new owners ... which are heavily vested in high-tech ventures, and seem to be European centric. Plus I believe all operations have been united back to Sweden ... and that move even affected service times, as it was/is being done in-mass and pretty quickly.

Add these clues to others mentioned, and it does seem that something is definitely up.

If it is a totally ground-up new system, it will be interesting how current Hasselblad users will be treated/supported. My H system investment is not insignificant.

-Marc
 

Douglas Fairbank

New member
Bengt, can you post a link to the announcement please?
Gary,
About a month ago Hasselblad announced that on 18 September 2012 they will be introducing an "almost" medium format mirror-less camera. It was mentioned that the format would be 2xFF. Interpreted literally this could mean 36x48 mm. It was also mentioned that this new Hasselblad camera would have a sensor by Sony and other content by Fuji. Further details, including resolution, ISO and more were not specified leaving lots of room for speculation.
Here is a copy of a press invitation from Hasselblad, no link available for this, sorry.

"In 2002 at photokina Hasselblad launched the revolutionary H System that changed and shaped the medium format market of the new millennium. Embraced by professional and amateur photographers around the world, it is still the unsurpassed standard for craftsmanship and ultimate image quality.

In 2012, 10 years later, our commitment to innovation, evolution and expanding to new horizons is as uncompromising as it has always been in the century-long history of Hasselblad.

We are pleased to invite you to the Hasselblad Press Conference at photokina 2012, which will take place Tuesday, September 18th 2012, 14.00 - 15.00 at Koelnmesse, Kristallsaal Sektion 3, Entrance West."
 

jotloob

Subscriber Member
This gets more and more interesting.

In the UK the Procentre has massive discounts on most of their pre-owned H series stock but not on the V series.

As you say "draw your own conclusions".
. . . . . but not the V-Series ! ! !

ALPA friends , who also have V-System lenses , keep them ! ! !
There is a strong rumor , that ALPA will present an attachment module , which is fully compatible with the ALPA System , where you can use existing HB V-System lenses .
Does that sound weird ? ? ?
 

georgl

New member
There are three possibilities:

1. No EVIL, just a minor upgrade of the H-system (80MP-sensor...)
2. EVIL but 80-90% sourced from Fuji
3. EVIL actually designed and made by Hasselblad, maybe even with new Zeiss-lenses

Sadly, 2. is less likely than 1. and 3. even less likely than 2. ...
For me, it makes a difference if Hasselblad is willing to invest into it's Sweden-based R&D & production and a cooperation with Zeiss or if they continue to let Fuji do the vast majority of work. But I have to admit, I don't say that just as a photographer but also as an engineer, someone who is also worried about craftsmanship and technical standards.

Zeiss for example has the skill and technology to give a hypothetical EVIL-system lenses that are fully usable at f2.8 even in demanding (WA) focal lengths. Or strong WA that make technical lenses superfluous - especially considering the possibility of Live-View.

I tested various MF-systems and I had a quite simple requirement: a nice WA which offers excellent sharpness corner to corner and a not too-slow standard lens making sharp images at f2-f2.8 even off-centre.
The 40 year old Planar 80mm didn't really convince me (no big surprise, but why they never re-designed it?) - well just an old design, but even the slow 4/80 for the Mamiya 7 is not performing too-well at f4 (just did some drum scans) and I was really shocked how unusable the Planar 2/80 for the Contax 645 is - how did they dare to put their name onto this lens? And Kyocera is one of the better manufacturers...

@ondebanks
The Distagon 60, Planar 100 or the 250 Suparchromat are still among the best lenses in medium-format and their production was started nearly 40 years ago! By now they could make them faster or even better-performing, just look at the progress they made in smaller formats. Or the mechanical quality, the patented internal focusing mechanism (used in the later Superachromats) derived from their experience in cinematography - you don't want to focus a Fuji/Mamiya-lens again... The Fuji 60-120 I tested got stuck after two weeks...

I don't say that medium-format systems should only be equipped with Zeiss-lenses but right now it's quite the opposite: all similar equipped and performing lenses by Mamiya/Fuji - no exception without using a technical camera. Wouldn't it be great to have access to state-of-the-art optical technology?

Here is the Velvia-sample I've talked about: beautiful landscape, not sufficient light to stop down and the result = mushy corners :-(

IMHO the Mamiya 4/80 is one of the very best standard-lenses available in MF...
 
B

Bengt Nyman

Guest
Here are two original quotes and calibration points for expectations about Hasselblad 2012:

--- "We are proud to have such an iconic brand in our portfolio and are convinced that with solid financial support and a suitable growth strategy, Ventizz can further strengthen Hasselblad's position as the first-class producer of medium-format digital camera systems. Furthermore, we plan to develop Hasselblad cameras to appeal to a wider circle of ambitious photographers,"*said Helmut Vorndran, managing partner and CEO of Ventizz Capital Partners. ---

--- Hasselblad CEO Larry Hansen said his company is looking forward to exploring "brand new markets". ---
 

ondebanks

Member
There are three possibilities:

1. No EVIL, just a minor upgrade of the H-system (80MP-sensor...)
2. EVIL but 80-90% sourced from Fuji
3. EVIL actually designed and made by Hasselblad, maybe even with new Zeiss-lenses
So that's actually two possibilities, since who cares who designs/makes a camera or lens? All that matters is how it performs and integrates into your system and whether you like using it. Seriously, if you judge a product by the name-badge on it...or snobbish (I even sense xenophobic from some people) impressions of the pedigree and country of origin of the people behind it...well...:loco:

So, your Mamiya 80/4 image illustrates that one of the best MF lenses is not perfect in the corners, wide open. Is that a surprise? Of course not. But to make your point, you would have to show us that an equivalent non-MF "state of the art" lens is perfect in the corners, wide open - and equally good in the centre too - on the same scene. Can you show us that?

Ray
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Here are two original quotes and calibration points for expectations about Hasselblad 2012:

--- "We are proud to have such an iconic brand in our portfolio and are convinced that with solid financial support and a suitable growth strategy, Ventizz can further strengthen Hasselblad's position as the first-class producer of medium-format digital camera systems. Furthermore, we plan to develop Hasselblad cameras to appeal to a wider circle of ambitious photographers,"*said Helmut Vorndran, managing partner and CEO of Ventizz Capital Partners. ---

--- Hasselblad CEO Larry Hansen said his company is looking forward to exploring "brand new markets". ---
So, that presents the possibility of an H5 evolution of the H series which is why the dump of current H4 demos and price reductions of current camera body retail stock, but not a rush to off-load the H lenses ... and something brand new to broaden the marketing scope of the Hasselblad brand, as in a CMOS based smaller non-modular camera with EVF or something on that order.

Does "ambitious" mean "expensive" :rolleyes:

-Marc
 
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