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Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

fotografz

Well-known member
There are three possibilities:

1. No EVIL, just a minor upgrade of the H-system (80MP-sensor...)
2. EVIL but 80-90% sourced from Fuji
3. EVIL actually designed and made by Hasselblad, maybe even with new Zeiss-lenses

Sadly, 2. is less likely than 1. and 3. even less likely than 2. ...
For me, it makes a difference if Hasselblad is willing to invest into it's Sweden-based R&D & production and a cooperation with Zeiss or if they continue to let Fuji do the vast majority of work. But I have to admit, I don't say that just as a photographer but also as an engineer, someone who is also worried about craftsmanship and technical standards.

Zeiss for example has the skill and technology to give a hypothetical EVIL-system lenses that are fully usable at f2.8 even in demanding (WA) focal lengths. Or strong WA that make technical lenses superfluous - especially considering the possibility of Live-View.

I tested various MF-systems and I had a quite simple requirement: a nice WA which offers excellent sharpness corner to corner and a not too-slow standard lens making sharp images at f2-f2.8 even off-centre.
The 40 year old Planar 80mm didn't really convince me (no big surprise, but why they never re-designed it?) - well just an old design, but even the slow 4/80 for the Mamiya 7 is not performing too-well at f4 (just did some drum scans) and I was really shocked how unusable the Planar 2/80 for the Contax 645 is - how did they dare to put their name onto this lens? And Kyocera is one of the better manufacturers...

@ondebanks
The Distagon 60, Planar 100 or the 250 Suparchromat are still among the best lenses in medium-format and their production was started nearly 40 years ago! By now they could make them faster or even better-performing, just look at the progress they made in smaller formats. Or the mechanical quality, the patented internal focusing mechanism (used in the later Superachromats) derived from their experience in cinematography - you don't want to focus a Fuji/Mamiya-lens again... The Fuji 60-120 I tested got stuck after two weeks...

I don't say that medium-format systems should only be equipped with Zeiss-lenses but right now it's quite the opposite: all similar equipped and performing lenses by Mamiya/Fuji - no exception without using a technical camera. Wouldn't it be great to have access to state-of-the-art optical technology?

Here is the Velvia-sample I've talked about: beautiful landscape, not sufficient light to stop down and the result = mushy corners :-(

IMHO the Mamiya 4/80 is one of the very best standard-lenses available in MF...
If you love Zeiss so much, just use them ... CF, CFi and CFE or any F/FE lens can be adapted to any focal plane MFD or film camera made (like 645 Mamiya, Leica S2, or Contax 645) ... and CF/CFi and CFEs can be use in leaf shutter mode on any H camera, film or digital made to date. Or just use a 503CW.

Personally, I wouldn't judge Fuji lenses based on the old 60-120 for the F cameras ... even some of the all-mighty Zeiss lenses for that camera left something to be desired.

BTW, the Leica S lenses are probably the best out there right now ... fast apertures and pretty sharp all the way out to the corners ... a lot sharper than what you consider to be one of the best lenses in MF. However, the cost of a little better is a LOT of money.

Quoting the performance of Zeiss Cine lenses is a red herring ... yes they are state of the art, but at what cost? Who would pony up that kind of money for some IQ gain in MF lenses? I mean lets get real here.

-Marc
 

tjv

Active member
Did anyone ever stop to think that Ventizz bought Hasselblad not to slice it up and sell it on (as the doomsday conspiracy theorists have it) but because Hasselblad actually had the smarts to design something amazing but didn't have the capital to invest in its production without serious backing?

Also, I remember the former 'Blad CEO (Poulsen?) stating before it was finally released that the Leica S2 was the perfect MF product but (at that point) it was merely vaporware. I wouldn't be surprised to see a fully integrated digital MF product, compatible with H system lenses, a la the S2 but with a full 645 sensor.

Either that or they're reinventing the V system with a full frame square sensor :bugeyes: I can dream, can't I?
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Here is something I heard but I know it will be more fuel for the rumors. The money pocket for Hassy backing is extremely deep far more than many of us realized in the buyout of it. Ventizzz has extremely deep pockets. What that means for products we just don't know. Personally I would not be surprised for one second we did not see a S2 style look alike in Hassy.
 

JorisV

New member
This gets more and more interesting.

In the UK the Procentre has massive discounts on most of their pre-owned H series stock but not on the V series.

As you say "draw your own conclusions".
Also, wasn't the October number of Victor going to be dedicated to the V system?

I believe I received an email along those lines... interesting...
 

Shashin

Well-known member
LOL. We take a sample of a lens wide open and expect that the corners that are not focused at the focal plane should be as sharp as the center where the camera was focused? And what Ray said...

Personally, I hope Hasselblad release a digital version of the disc camera--remember those?

I mean, if we are just fantasizing...
 
B

Bengt Nyman

Guest
... Ventizzz has extremely deep pockets ...
Deep pockets require large returns on investments.
This will be no free lunch for photo nostalgics. I do not think that Ventizz is the least interested in what Lieca or anybody else did in the past. If they read the market like I do they see the need for top quality digital images produced with a simple, electronic, high tech camera with a minimum of moving parts.
Canon and Nikon are invested in making and selling mirror boxes. The medium format industry has an IQ advantage but are also stuck in old mechanical technologies. Nobody has yet taken the mirrorless technology to the top, on parity with MF IQ. It will happen. And hopefully Ventizz/Hasselblad are smart enough to be among the first to ride that wave.
 

D&A

Well-known member
When nothing is released. Lol


Yea, but that will save everyone a boatload of money won't it? Hmmm, yet on the other hand, we always find something else to spend it on...don't we? LOL!

Reading this thread I get the sense that there is great turmoil in the MF market. On one hand I keep thinking the next evolution is going to be the fully intergrated high performance MFD camera ala S2 and 645D but with full frame sensors and lenses up to the task. ...or on the other hand, take it one step further and make it revolutionary with EVF/Live View and compensate for the increased size these things have grown and get rid of the mirror box altogether.

I think even Nikon saw the writing on the wall and although they still manufacturer their Pro sized bodies for PJ work and ultra fast shooting (D4 etc.). they chose for now to make their flagship landscape/studio camera a more compact design and most have embraced this concept quite quickly, even those who only shot D3's sized bodies exclusively.

So extrapolate what you will, I somehow think things even in the slower moving/changing MFD market is going to speed up..especially if they can cull a somewhat bigger share of the market and at the same time come up with the R&D funds to support such developments. Obviously not an easy thing to do.

Dave (D&A)
 

georgl

New member
@fotografz
Fuji reached the quality of most Zeiss-designs of the 200/500-series - but these were old designs. But what if Zeiss would have gotten a chance to design entirely new lenses? In fact, I'm actually NOT happy with the performance of these older designs, people spending 40k$ on a 80MP-back should be that picky as well.
The very few newer designs (350SA, 40IF...) give a hint of what would have been possible. The cinematography-department just represents the major improvement that Zeiss was capable of, the old Hasselblad-designs are closer to the standard of the "Superspeeds" (the Zeiss cinematography lenses from the 1960s/70s, also very expensive). Maybe these lenses would have been a bit more expensive than most Fuji or Mamiya-designs - but is there really no need for higher quality standards? Sharp corners? Open aperture performance? A "good enough" 645-AF-system? Get a Mamiya, perfectly fine. But making sacrifices by replacing the 500/200-series with the H-system, especially since all other choices are nearly gone by now, either? Hasselblad could have done better than this, with the possibility of an entirely new EVIL-system they have a (maybe the last) chance to proof that. Sorry, I don't want another Fujiblad - and it's not even cheap, either.
 

IsakBergwall

New member
The rumor did say " is looking forward to exploring "brand new markets"". Maybe it is not a camera at all? Maybe it is a new kind of muffin or something?
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Coulda, shoulda, woulda.

But they didn't and Zeiss didn't.

What you do not grasp is that Hasselblad has some stellar H lenses like the 100/2.2, and the HCD35-90 is all new from the ground up and is a much better lens than the Zeiss 35-90 made for the Contax 645 (which wasn't 40 year old design BTW) ... and one-by-one they are improving the older H designs that were launched with the film based H1 camera .... The new HC/50-II is a quantum leap over the previous HC/50, and the new 150N and 210-II Macro are both improved to perform on higher meg backs.

However, as Keith mentioned ... don't like it, don't buy it.

-Marc
 

georgl

New member
"don't like it, don't buy it"

That's the point, whatever your financial resources, need or preferences are, there is only Fuji/Mamiya - similar design approach and quality standard, a future Hasselblad-system (EVIL needs new lenses anyway) could be a vast improvement and Zeiss would be an ideal partner.

The "Zeiss" 35-90 was made by Kyocera, the last designs for Hasselblad (300/350Sa, 40IF) did show what is possible with re-designs, but Hasselblad decided against it to cut costs, that's not what Hasselblad was about.
 

Shashin

Well-known member
You probably did not see me type my post with a straight face...

The S2 is a great modern camera. Pentax pushed that a little further down the technology road. It looks like the both Pentax and Leica are looking for new sources for sensors and will be sporting CMOS. I guess live view is coming to the MFD world. It will interesting to see what is revealed. If Hasselblad, Pentax, and Leica go with live view, I wonder what Phase and Leaf are going to do. They have tried to push CCD technology to have live view, but it is not really that great and the lack of an integrated body makes the cameras a bit of a compromise.
 

RVB

Member
You probably did not see me type my post with a straight face...

:)

The S2 is a great modern camera. Pentax pushed that a little further down the technology road. It looks like the both Pentax and Leica are looking for new sources for sensors and will be sporting CMOS. I guess live view is coming to the MFD world. It will interesting to see what is revealed. If Hasselblad, Pentax, and Leica go with live view, I wonder what Phase and Leaf are going to do. They have tried to push CCD technology to have live view, but it is not really that great.
Rumours say french electronic company STmicroelectronics will be supplying the sensor for the S3.. not too long now before we know the truth.. I just sold my S2 to get ready for the S3..
 
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