Paul Spinnler
Well-known member
Hassy ist just an epic fail now.
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Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?
- Thread starter pophoto
- Start date
The same is true for the HCD 28mm lens. That lens now works on the Hasselblad H4X with third party backs, but with a crop factor if the back is full frame. I would assume the same will be true for the 24mm lens. The HCD 28mm and 35mm-90mm zoom were released before full frame digital backs came out. I would have thought that Hasselblad would stop designing new lenses that are not full frame.
Andy Biggs
Member
Now that the dust has settled, it really saddens me to see Hasselblad reach a new low. The Lunar camera(s) really look horrendous! I caught a bunch of crap in this and another thread about how I anticipated Hasselblad didn't have the money, time or knowledge to create a new camera system from scratch, and it looks like I was correct with my statements about how I thought they would have to partner up to bring something 'new' to market. Well, a NEX-7 that has been overstylized with leather, carbon fiber and gaudy looking wood is certainly more than I was anticipating. YUCK. Super YUCK. I guess the Russians and Chinese will enjoy the products, because I don't know of a single person who would buy such ugly and overpriced equipment.
B
Bengt Nyman
Guest
Go to:
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Andy Biggs
Member
Greg, it's not about lacking taste but rather what 1 person prefers another person might think is unattractive. I won't defend myself past this post.
I have no disagreement with most of which you say ... However, unlike many other's way of thinking ... I've been on record that Hasselblad need not have done a new ground-up platform ... just make the one they have better ... not somewhat better like the H5D, a lot better!
For example:
For years I've advocated that the H camera become dual shutter so you could use all the lenses including fast lenses like the 100/2.2 in leaf shutter AND focal plane shutter mode ... 1/4000th at f/2.2 ... now I know what that looks like because I use that HC100/2.2 lens, and others, on my dual shutter Leica S2. :thumbs:
If Hasselblad wants to use "exotic" materials, they could have used them in the H to make it stronger and lighter at the same time.
If they had brought forth a non-AA CMOS H camera with true live view in at least one offering, even crop frame like the 40 meg back, they would have rocked Photokina rather than being the butte of considerable amusement ... and no small amount of dismay.
-Marc
Bill_Green
Member
You're just taking that attitude because you haven't seen the Stainless Ferrari version yet.
Hi Marc,
How is that working out for you so far, using the H lenses on the S2?
Thanks, Joris.
Joris,
So far, so good. Leica has been snail slow getting their central leaf shutter lenses to market and full-filling the promise to up-date focal-plane S lenses to leaf-shutter for earlier S2 buyers. So, I had not been able to use the CS setting on my 2 year old S2 until Leica offered the H to S adapter. Leica also provided Light-Room lens profiles for all Hasselblad H lenses specific to the S2 sensor.
While it is nice to use HC lenses like the 100/2.2 wide open in brighter lighting in FP mode up to 1/4000th (rather than 1/800th max shutter speed like on the H4D), it is more important that I can shoot the S2 in CS mode with full output strobes or speed-light up to 1/750th shutter rather than 1/125th.
For example, this recent wedding shoot in quite harsh side/back lighting with a background bathed in direct sun at 2:30PM ... a location the client wanted to use for sentimental reasons despite the lighting conditions. I used the 100/2.2 on the S2 in CS mode and used a shutter of 1/500th to knock down the background while fill-flashing the subjects with the Leica SF-58 speed-light to balance the foreground. The H lenses on the S2 AF quite fast and accurately so getting specific moments is assured. In fact, I used Hasselblad lenses for almost all of the portrait/posed shots at this wedding ... as represented by this album page from that wedding ... the larger image being a quick AF candid as the subjects prepared for the "actual" portrait shot, which I did not use:
-Marc
That is because your criticism is NOT exactly true.
I think what Hasselblad is doing is bad enough without exaggerating things, or making misinformed and misleading statements.
Using a leaf-shutter V lens on a H camera via the CF adapter is NOT like using them on a Canon. These are mechanical leaf shutter lenses adapted for use on an electronic leaf-shutter H camera. When adapted to Canon, the leaf-shutter is disabled, and you have to use manual stop down metering and shooting. On the H camera the V lenses are leaf shutter able, and do not have to be stopped down to meter or shoot. BIG difference.
The CFV back was specifically designed to work on the V camera because it uses the existing analog mechanism on the cameras to activate and use the digital back. So, unlike any other back used on the V camera, you do not have to hard-wire the digital back to the V lens sync port. This also allowed use of the CFV on a 200 series camera with full functions intact which you cannot do with any other digital back. The CFV can also be used on any technical camera with a V mount because it has an on-board battery. And in fact, could be used on any MF camera in the same way using the menu sync setting and a sync cord (I used mine on a Mamiya RZ Pro-II).
While Leica has added R ability to the new M camera which is better than nothing, it is hardly an R camera, and requires stop down metering and shooting plus an add-on EVF rather than the big bright R viewfinder. The 10 meg crop frame DMR was hardly an answer either, and how did that work out? BOOM, gone with no replacement. Not to mention use of a proprietary DMR battery that's now hard to find.
Just keeping it real
-Marc
You obviously do not have contact with the buying public, especially the stupidly rich, the newly rich and bling cultural icons
Weird Pictures of Pure Gold Objects | Weirdomatic
Most Expensive Stuff – Ridiculously Over-priced Toys (check out the pathetic $20,000 Bentley laptop, and "tasty" $30,000 bikini ... girl not included)
How about an Aston Martin $34,000 car key?
Or the photos of Andreas Gursky? For a mere $4,338,500 you could have owned his incredibly boring and mundane "Rhein II" photo ...
Andreas Gursky | andrzej bikowski | bartie | footwear design
Then there is a pair of $160,000 Nike shoes, or Stuart Weitzman's Cinderella shoes for only $2,000,000!
Speaking of perfume on a pig, my all time favorite is a Hohner Gola ... Accordian ... @ $30,000
One need not point to Russia and China to get the point ... the Hip-Hop culture is crammed with incredibly tasteless junk priced in the stratosphere. Keep in mind that the USA produces a $100,000 Corvette that can be further pimped out, er, customized, to "infinity and beyond".
I like this root definition as applied to this Lunar debacle:
"Kitsch appealed to the crass tastes of the newly moneyed Munich bourgeoisie, who allegedly thought they could achieve the status they envied in the traditional class of cultural elites by aping, however clumsily, the most apparent features of their cultural habits".
The more you research the subject, the more appallingly apparent it is that this piece of "Lunar debris" may actually sell well.
-Marc
Marc,
As always, I respect your opinion. However, one can point to stupidity in any form. Hasselblad needs to sell these cameras in some sort of volume, and I do not think there are enough tasteless people to make this a "volume" item. Maybe they needed to price the Lunar at a million euros.
Greg
As always, I respect your opinion. However, one can point to stupidity in any form. Hasselblad needs to sell these cameras in some sort of volume, and I do not think there are enough tasteless people to make this a "volume" item. Maybe they needed to price the Lunar at a million euros.
Greg
I was being facetious Greg.
However, if they sell a mere 5000 of these @ $6,500 not counting accessories, that generates $32,500,000 in revenue ... and I'd guess the profit margin to be obscene ... but even @ only 30% that would stuff $10 million into their bank account.
I would think that $10,000,000 in profit is not insignificant to a company the size of Hasselblad.
However, I just do not think they have the distribution network to sell these to the intended audience ... Hasselblad hasn't been the best marketers in past.
We'll see
-Marc
Richard Naismith
New member
One would assume that Hasselblad would have been well aware that serious photographers would not want to buy the Lunar, and they made no attempt to cover up the fact that it was an externally jazzed up Nex-7. It's obvious that it's not intended for their current market - professional photographers.
So I'm not thinking of getting one, at all. However I'm extremely satisfied with the quality of images I get from my H4D-50. They're actually quite incredible.
All the best.
Richard Naismith
So I'm not thinking of getting one, at all. However I'm extremely satisfied with the quality of images I get from my H4D-50. They're actually quite incredible.
All the best.
Richard Naismith
Marc, I'm not so sure your calculations would hold up especially considering their major partner in all this is Sony. As the camera is fundamentally a Sony using bog standard Zeiss (not HB branded) glass which is then re-packaged in a very expensive (materials wise) alluminium housing and using other exotic materials (unusual woods, carbon fibre, Dodo feet etc) 30% return seem way off IMO.
Once Sony has taken its Lions share of the profit, Zeiss for the purchase of their lenses, the exotic endangered animals slayer from some developing country for the materials and they have paid all the R&D people for the special firmware that's being developed for the camera I imaging that 30% is much, much less. If you add to that the cost (as stated by HB and Sony) of developing a bigger range of cameras like this in the future HB need to sell way more than 5000 units to make any money for the future development of the beloved H series.
Well, you could very well be right. However, it is not unusual for "Luxury" items to have an outrageous mark-up, so 30% isn't much.
My bet is that Sony looks at this as increased volume if only a little, with no marketing effort or retailer cut. The NEX 7 probably cost them less than $1,000 to make with lens, so even if they charge Hasselblad $2,000 that leaves $4,500.
I'd bet it wouldn't take more the $1,500 each for Hasselblad to ugly up the camera = $3,000 ... then retail cut and marketing @ $1000 ... leaves $2,000 profit X 5,000 units = $10,000,000 Profit.
I'd bet it is even more, not less.
-Marc
Just adding my 2cents here:
I think we can speculate the numbers all we want, but as a business to not have significant margin is a very badly thought out business plan. If Sony's part is to deliver most of the parts say bar the outside Luxury materials and to allow Hasselblad to try this as a technical exercise, I will not be surprised. It is very say "Chinese" to go for a high end market, and many millions of dollars later, failure, isn't a problem, Sony has tried it's hand at failure (despite many good products) many times before!
I'm saying all of this before bringing sensor sizer and looks. Actually having Sony for certain consumers isn't as bad as it sounds! They are obviously going for a market niche! There are parts of this plan that DOES make sense. The sensor size will further their margin for production in both camera and lenses.
I think we can speculate the numbers all we want, but as a business to not have significant margin is a very badly thought out business plan. If Sony's part is to deliver most of the parts say bar the outside Luxury materials and to allow Hasselblad to try this as a technical exercise, I will not be surprised. It is very say "Chinese" to go for a high end market, and many millions of dollars later, failure, isn't a problem, Sony has tried it's hand at failure (despite many good products) many times before!
I'm saying all of this before bringing sensor sizer and looks. Actually having Sony for certain consumers isn't as bad as it sounds! They are obviously going for a market niche! There are parts of this plan that DOES make sense. The sensor size will further their margin for production in both camera and lenses.
I can comment on it as a Russian/Australian living in Asia. It's not about taste. It's about totally different culture and traditions. What is just a lack of taste for Western people, for Chinese it is something meaningful. They admire different colors and different forms. Same for Russia which was isolated from Western Civilization in the past long ago as well as in the recent past, during USSR time. And don't forget that huge part of Russia lays in the Asia