Nikon D800E v.s Hasselblad H4D40: the end of medium format superiority?

[Shelby Lewis]

Whoa, Marc... none of that was pointed at you.

You know I respect your opinions on gear and art, and have talked to you privately about it. Give me more credit than that, please.

I guess I need to shut up about how I feel as well...

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Marc I strongly oppose your last comment a lot and to even imply that to me is a insult. I'm out of this conversation as anything else would not be appropriate as a owner. :wtf:

 

[fotografz]

Marc I strongly oppose your last comment a lot and to even imply that to me is a insult. I'm out of this conversation as anything else would not be appropriate as a owner. :wtf:

Sorry Guy, also not aimed at you ... it was a general comment on posts that keep implying that what folks are using now is somehow unintelligent or behind the times (which you have never said, nor implied and in fact have said the opposite) ... just reference back to the "this verses that" thread title and what then follows ... as well as others like it.

If you'll indulge a bit of a walk down memory lane, it was often just you and I defending our use of the DMR based solely on our aesthetic take on the camera ... against a huge wave of reason and logic that picked apart the Leica. We were pretty vocal about it as I recall. Somehow this feels similar to me. That many still feel MFD provides a unique look and feel seems to not matter in the face of all the D800 claims ... all on a forum that's dedicated to MFD.

-Marc

 

[Anders_HK]

Marc you have not tried the D800 lets be honest here you stopped at the last model D3X which personally I thought was not very good.

Guy, I do not mean to pick on you but above is an example.

I do not get statements like these, which seem again and again is argument from DSLR speakers, that DSLR measure up to MFDB and we should go out and try and buy latest DSLR. Why?

Rather there are like you say clear differences. A DSLR or even iPhone can be used to make good pictures, but image quality and more differ, which is our own decision of tool.

Now why the heck it should be argued of DSLR then over MFDB. Speaking for myself my Hy6 w/ AFi-II 12 and 80mm Xenotar AFD PQ cut me down from weight from five prior camera systems. I carry in small bag that is smaller and less weight than most DSLR shooters lug around. No way DSLR for me, frequent for DSLR it is pro zoom lenses that are top optics and they weight tons.

I too was Nikon shooter before and gave up after D200 days. I found that camera as much inferior to 35mm slide film and with zillion buttons/function that are in way. Why Marc or even I need try D800??? I do not get it.

As you said there are different preferences, but the religion is from those advocating latest DSLR and I think plain silly and childish. Again, this not directed to you, I just grabbed one of your sentences as example.

Best regards
Anders

 

[fotografz]

Whoa, Marc... none of that was pointed at you.

You know I respect your opinions on gear and art, and have talked to you privately about it. Give me more credit than that, please.

I guess I need to shut up about how I feel as well...

I didn't take anything as specifically aimed at me Shelby ... the mistake with my last post was not segmenting my responses well enough so the different points got all mixed up ... and I even pissed off Guy ... my bad.

You know I love your work ... however, I do not feel I know you well enough to delve deep into art matters like I do with my long time friend Irakly who lives near me, or my mentor of almost 15 years who is in NYC.

It is odd for me right now, for the first time in years I feel I've sorted out my tools and am more free to follow my creative instincts ... so to be honest on this end, I freely admit I'm a bit protective of those choices and would hate to see them fade away in the face of a popular ground swell of tools I do not like, nor feel any attachment to from a creative perspective.

Emotional outbursts are kinda stupid for a man of my age I guess ... the curse of an artistic bent perhaps, or fighting for what I creatively believed in while in cut-throat adverting ... not the first time it has gotten me into trouble :facesmack:

-Marc

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Guy, I do not mean to pick on you but above is an example.

I do not get statements like these, which seem again and again is argument from DSLR speakers, that DSLR measure up to MFDB and we should go out and try and buy latest DSLR. Why?

Rather there are like you say clear differences. A DSLR or even iPhone can be used to make good pictures, but image quality and more differ, which is our own decision of tool.

Now why the heck it should be argued of DSLR then over MFDB. Speaking for myself my Hy6 w/ AFi-II 12 and 80mm Xenotar AFD PQ cut me down from weight from five prior camera systems. I carry in small bag that is smaller and less weight than most DSLR shooters lug around. No way DSLR for me, frequent for DSLR it is pro zoom lenses that are top optics and they weight tons.

I too was Nikon shooter before and gave up after D200 days. I found that camera as much inferior to 35mm slide film and with zillion buttons/function that are in way. Why Marc or even I need try D800??? I do not get it.

As you said there are different preferences, but the religion is from those advocating latest DSLR and I think plain silly and childish. Again, this not directed to you, I just grabbed one of your sentences as example.

Best regards
Anders

I'm not advocated people sell there MF for 35mm. Most of us have both in hand and the D800 is maybe the best I have seen in 35mm, so worth looking at in those terms as the backup or as a primary for imaging certain types of jobs. For fence sitters also they have a option as well that is pretty darn good. I don't consider it a replacement for MF. If I implied that than that is really not what I wanted to say. My personal decision was based on completely outside factors which have nothing to do with photography but a business decision for my other company that my wife and I own. It needed fuel.LOL

But having had to do that I am saying sure its not the same but it's the best option there is outside of MF and it's darn close. I said this from the very beginning when I was running head to head tests that Nikon is on to something. Still not there and never will be just given the sensor size difference alone but if folks are looking at alternatives it's worth looking at.


BTW I'm not pissed at anyone. I know many folks have deep feelings to there systems and tend to defend them sometimes. Just take the blinders off and look around, things are not so clear cut. Also be ready for anything it's Photokinia time coming.


Btw this goes for Jack and I both as owners our opinions on gear sometimes comes across as gospel since this is our home. But it's really our opinions personally and not GetDPI stance on how this forum is. I hope folks understand what I am trying to say here. We have to shoot something does not mean everyone should shoot the same thing. Far from it.

 

[johnnygoesdigital]

The reason this is most likely in the MFD section is simply because of the MP count and the price. For those sitting on the fence, this price point and MP size of the D800, that gets you to 95% of MFD, is in itself worthy of debating the merits of each system. We are all at different levels in our careers, and the demand we put on ourselves as photographers regarding artistic expression is personal and expensive. What is not expected here, are general statements from a few that demean and insult the effort put in by so many because of their perceived superiority of talent and gear. There are many posts here throughout this site from generous photographers that have helped me and others make sense of many complex photography questions or set ups. Some are really good amateurs, to highly paid fashion/landscape photographers that personally, I'm glad to call peers.

 

[lmeiners]

"I do not like green eggs and ham.
I do not like them, Sam I Am."

To each his own I think.

Larry

 

[GrahamWelland]

I've done a lot of tests between the IQ 160 and IQ 140 vs the Nikon beast and yes there are differences but there not so vast as one would think either . Sure it comes in areas like color tonal range, micro contrast and some imaging look as well. MF looks a little less digital over the Nikon D800 but honestly the differences are there but its damn close and given the functionality factor of the Nikon system it can and is a viable tool. What I can't really understand is some folks just can't accept it as a viable image maker and these threads go on like its a religion and someone has to be right. They have certainly big differences within the systems and MF has special tools that the Nikon will NEVER have like a tech cam and its abilities. Im not sure any Nikon owner is saying hey MF we can kick your *** on any given day even on Sunday. No one is saying that but what we are saying is holy cow Nikon did damn good here and this is a viable tool that we enjoy shooting.

You know I may have to disagree with you there Guy because that's exactly what some people are trying to say.

I agree with everything you wrote btw - horses for courses, right weapon for the job, etc etc. Resolution definitely isn't everything though and I think that some people are overlooking that fact.

As regards the value for money. Well, Nikon hit a home run :thumbs::thumbs:

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Unfortunately you maybe correct Graham, you won't hear that from me though. People need to understand its limitations. Value for money grand slam. LOL

 

[Shashin]

It is funny, but you would think photographs would unite photographers. Just having fun at looking at each other"s work and finding joy in it. But photographers turn out to be more like rival street racers checking out the competitor's car.

What I choose to shoot is my personal thing. But I can have a blast looking at other work whether taken with an IQ180 or a Holga or a cell phone or even a D800. The camera does not invalidate a work.

 

[gazwas]

It is funny, but you would think photographs would unite photographers. Just having fun at looking at each other"s work and finding joy in it.

Maybe in some far off fairy land but the reason why many of use enjoy this forum is because of its excellent gear related topics that are such a wonderful help to newbie and the experienced old time pro's alike. I for one have gained more info off this forum than from any dealer. The fact that you can also look at others work is one big bonus and really rounds off getdpi much better then other similar forums.

But photographers turn out to be more like rival street racers checking out the competitor's car.

Can't say I have noticed that but reading and contributing to a topic named Camera X vs Camera Y is always going to fuel opinion and an little healthy chest beating is unavoidable.

 

[Shashin]

Maybe in some far off fairy land but the reason why many of use enjoy this forum is because of its excellent gear related topics that are such a wonderful help to newbie and the experienced old time pro's alike. I for one have gained more info off this forum than from any dealer. The fact that you can also look at others work is one big bonus and really rounds off getdpi much better then other similar forums.

But there are also members like Dan and Graham and Lloyd that are really posting images. Patrick seems to be documenting his life on GetDPI. Certainly, the gear is a draw--this is about the only place I know where I can get feedback on MFD stuff. But I spend a lot of time looking through threads beginning with "Fun with a." I am also thinking of buying a Leica just so I can play in the Leica forum--the work in the MFD is great, but those Leica folks really have some fun.

I have seen the competition between photographers here. I see photographers checking out another photographers gear in the street and if one thinks his camera is the winner he hoists it up a little while the other guy, and it is always a guy, swings his camera around his back to hide it. I've have seen photographers eye my camera thought the corner of their eye. When I see a photographer in the field and give a friendly smile, the usual response is a dirty look or they turn their back on me.

If you can break the ice, then most of these folks are perfectly charming.

We are a bunch of odd ducks.

(PS I also think that internet communication is very unnatural and is difficult to communicate and represent yourself, unlike a face to face meeting.)

 

[MGrayson]

The Internet: Helping people, who basically agree, to have bitter arguments for over 10 years.

--Matt

 

[KeithL]

I have seen the competition between photographers here. I see photographers checking out another photographers gear in the street and if one thinks his camera is the winner he hoists it up a little while the other guy, and it is always a guy, swings his camera around his back to hide it. I've have seen photographers eye my camera thought the corner of their eye. When I see a photographer in the field and give a friendly smile, the usual response is a dirty look or they turn their back on me.

Rule No 1

If I see another photographer I know I'm in the wrong place.

 

[gazwas]

Regardless of what your opinion is on these two cameras, what the heck happened to Alex the OP and his thoughts following this test.......?

One solitary post driving loads of traffic to his blog and never seen again for dust..... until the next blog plug probably.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Regardless of what your opinion is on these two cameras, what the heck happened to Alex the OP and his thoughts following this test.......?

One solitary post driving loads of traffic to his blog and never seen again for dust..... until the next blog plug probably.

Yes we get used and abused to drive traffic to peoples blogs. I should start sending out invoices for advertising fees. Better yet you want it in your signature send me 25 dollars i aint to freaking proud to take your money. Hmmm actually not a bad idea. ROTFLMAO

 

[MGrayson]

True, the OP hasn't been back, but there was more in his first post than in many such blog links. It doesn't hurt that he has one of the better presentations of comparison shots.

--Matt

 

[Shashin]

I am just wondering if we will ever go back to the good old days when a sentence with the term "medium-format digital" will not also include "D800."

 

[Thorkil]

Whoa, Marc... none of that was pointed at you.

You know I respect your opinions on gear and art, and have talked to you privately about it. Give me more credit than that, please.

I guess I need to shut up about how I feel as well...

don't shut up, its those considerations, not just of the horsepower of the cameras, but the feel about the rendening, the way the pictures touch, and ones feelings with the camera that matter.
I'm dissapointed by the D800E. R-lenses might save it, but the mental connection lacks. It might go. Miss the the free and artistic M-feeling.
Perhaps I'm the only one that misses your rather artistic pics, (children, bride thowing flowers backwards), a rather unconventional way in hitting the nail. Carry on!
Thorkil