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Phase One Photokinia Press Release

Anders_HK

Member
The announcement of DF+ is outmost chocking! :facesmack:

Would it not have been smarter not to have announced it and hung some very conceptual idea sketches at Kina of what is really in works (if there is something really in works...)... :banghead:

Sure would have been more honest to customers... :lecture:

Happy I ditched Mamiya :deadhorse:

The Hy6 Mod 2 upgrade is proper business :clap:

Best regards,
Anders
 

scatesmd

Workshop Member
Will the new DF body allow for firmware upgrades without shipping to phase or buying the extra grip?

Steve
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Did any see if on the DF+, there is a way to disable the internal shutter when using a leaf shutter lens. This has always been a problem with the current DF in that you have to fire both shutters.

Paul
Okay... So here's the skinny that I got on the DF+ last month at the Copenhagen pre-press event. But first you need to understand that Phase One is a relatively small company, so things do not happen as fast as they might in a larger company. The other thing you need to remember is the consumer MF digital market is small -- about 12,000 unit sales annually for ALL manufacturers combined. (By comparison, DSLR sales are something like 40 MILLION units per year.) In addition to continually developing their backs, Phase continues to improve Capture One software, and then continues to develop the new line of Schneider LS lenses, as well as continuing with body development. The investment in employee time and capital to develop an entirely new body is significant -- it's also going to be a lower priority financially when your market is as limited as this one is. With all that going on, their primary goal remains to bring their users the best software and equipment possible in the most efficient timeframes as practical -- and I give them a lot of credit for that type of loyalty to their customers, especially in today's world of planned-obsolescence from most manufacturers.
~~~

So to the DF+ itself. From what I saw and heard -- and I asked a bunch of questions about it -- the new DF+ is a DF with an entirely new AF sensor that is both faster and more accurate, though apparently with the same 3 closely spaced AF points, and then electronic and mechanical internals upgraded to improve both precision in alignment and reliability against body lock-ups. They are able to prove it's the most reliable MF digital body, and though I was never exactly clear how they ascertained this there apparently is some supporting data somewhere. That's it for the DF+ folks...

And so, the long awaited game-changing, re-designed form-factor body is still under development with no hard bring-to-market date as of yet. I will add that I STRONGLY encouraged them to move that project to a top priority, as I had just cautioned them that the limited DF+ announcement would likely not be seen as a positive one for them...
~~~

Lenses: Both a new 28LS as well as a 240LS -- and I shot with initial prototypes of both, and they are superlative. The 240LS is probably the best lens I have ever shot with period for any system, absolutely stunning results. It is receiving some finishing design tweaks touches and should be to market relatively soon.
~~~

Software: All I can say is stay tuned and hang on! :D
 

pedro39photo

New member
Phase One make great backs, and i think that P45+ its one of the best backs every made, my old 645AFDII and ZD was a good camera, but its really a old Medium format system.
but please...CAME ON??? the same base technology Mamiya 645AF chassis with 12 years old......for 5000$.....:deadhorse:

I am now a Hassy user, so please don´t fire at me because i think that good brand competition its great for end customers, but just look at the picture differences...12 years technology evolution?

 

Bob

Administrator
Staff member
Phase One make great backs, and i think that P45+ its one of the best backs every made, my old 645AFDII and ZD was a good camera, but its really a old Medium format system.
but please...CAME ON??? the same base technology Mamiya 645AF chassis with 12 years old......for 5000$.....:deadhorse:

I am now a Hassy user, so please don´t fire at me because i think that good brand competition its great for end customers, but just look at the picture differences...12 years technology evolution?

OMG my old D100 and my D800 look about the same too.
-bob
 

gerald.d

Well-known member
Jack - Phase claim a "complete overhaul of all moving parts... "

Any idea what they did to completely overhaul the shutter?
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Jack - Phase claim a "complete overhaul of all moving parts... "

Any idea what they did to completely overhaul the shutter?
All I got was what I stated above -- electronic and mechanical internals upgraded to improve both precision in alignment and reliability against body lock-ups
 

gerald.d

Well-known member
Hmm. Stefan of course sources the Mamiya shutter for the HCam, as do Alpa now for the FPS. Will be interesting to hear from them as to how the spec of the shutter has changed.
 

gazwas

Active member
Hmm. Stefan of course sources the Mamiya shutter for the HCam, as do Alpa now for the FPS. Will be interesting to hear from them as to how the spec of the shutter has changed.
The shutter in the DF was given a major overhaul to make it more robust/reliable and dealer replaceable so a complete redesign again seems unlikely.

The ability to switch it off when using LS lenses should have been made priority but no mention in the press release so hoping they just forgot to mention it. The sad thing is this is obviously where the firmware fixes/features for the DF stop just like with the AF before. :(
 

pedro39photo

New member
OMG my old D100 and my D800 look about the same too.
-bob
I understand your point Bob, but your D800 have the same viewfinder, the same 1.5x crop, the same 3 points AF, the same shutter lag, etc of the old d100?

But ok i understand, and don´t want to start a war about our tools...its to sentimental, feel the same sometimes - The DMF segment are small companys with small R&D houses compared with big brands like Canon or Nikon.

My afraid its that the game changers like the d800 can really stole a large amount of DMF sales of the Hassy/Phase/Leaf and in the future the size of sensor and the large MP count aren´t what count to new buyers...and this its bad for the future of DMF users and brands.

Lets go just make good pictures, and forget about the tools...

Sorry my bad English
Pedro
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
The S3 announcement was a yawner, more tweaking so I guess this is the year of the tweaker. Next: Pentax what do you have?

Im getting grouchy . LOL
 

nenes

New member
BUT NO ONE NEVER EVER TOLD TO PHASEONE TO CHANGE THE DESING OF THE CAMERA? It is really old and looks like chip,very chip.
We are leaving in 2012-2013 and MF camera cost sooooooooooo expensive for what they are.

2012-2013 and phase one still having just a single phocus point? And please do not put a rechargable battery as an improvement!!!!! We are in 2012 and i have my house full of AA batteries because my phaseone 645df is as old as my grandfathers camera but with a more ugly desing. At least hasselblad has the true focus and works....or power the camera with just one battery....or a very nice desing....etc,etc
Also the prices of MF lenses. 4000€¡!!!!¡ Each lens?
With this prices you can buy a new canon 5d mark 3 with a very nice lens on each time you buy a MF lens OHHHHH MY GOOOOOD
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
I understand your point Bob, but your D800 have the same viewfinder, the same 1.5x crop, the same 3 points AF, the same shutter lag, etc of the old d100?

But ok i understand, and don´t want to start a war about our tools...its to sentimental, feel the same sometimes - The DMF segment are small companys with small R&D houses compared with big brands like Canon or Nikon.

My afraid its that the game changers like the d800 can really stole a large amount of DMF sales of the Hassy/Phase/Leaf and in the future the size of sensor and the large MP count aren´t what count to new buyers...and this its bad for the future of DMF users and brands.

Lets go just make good pictures, and forget about the tools...

Sorry my bad English
Pedro
Have you shot with a DF?

There is zero crop when used with any of the Phase/Leaf full-frame sensors, the lag is nearly non-existent compared to the AFD1, autofocus is lightyears ahead of the AFD1.
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
I've been in Jackson WY for several months now and occasionally will shoot wildlife. I used the DF/P65+ along with a Mamiya 300 last winter to shoot everything from a mountain goat to buffalo, elk and antelope. Sorry no bear. I found the DF wasn't as fast as the Canon 1DsIII clicking away besides me however I knew and accepted that at the start; then again the files sizes were much different as well.

I found shooting the DF was light-years ahead of what it used to be when I gave it up and went solely with the WRS. I also have no illusions that any medium format will ever be a match to the shooting speed of a 35mm however the improved AF and speed looks interesting.
 

Anders_HK

Member
BUT NO ONE NEVER EVER TOLD TO PHASEONE TO CHANGE THE DESING OF THE CAMERA? It is really old and looks like chip,very chip.
We are leaving in 2012-2013 and MF camera cost sooooooooooo expensive for what they are.

2012-2013 and phase one still having just a single phocus point? And please do not put a rechargable battery as an improvement!!!!! We are in 2012 and i have my house full of AA batteries because my phaseone 645df is as old as my grandfathers camera but with a more ugly desing. At least hasselblad has the true focus and works....or power the camera with just one battery....or a very nice desing....etc,etc
Also the prices of MF lenses. 4000€¡!!!!¡ Each lens?
With this prices you can buy a new canon 5d mark 3 with a very nice lens on each time you buy a MF lens OHHHHH MY GOOOOOD
Admittedly I ditched Mamiya last year, but at least the now old 28mm and 300 APO looked sexy and like professional camera lenses.

The new 28 and 240 look ehhh like back to something toyish... :facesmack:

Comparing to Hassy H & V and Rolleiflex Schneiders there is difference...

Dont shoot me! :shocked:
 

nenes

New member
I found shooting the DF was light-years ahead of what it used to be when I gave it up and went solely with the WRS. I also have no illusions that any medium format will ever be a match to the shooting speed of a 35mm however the improved AF and speed looks interesting.[/QUOTE]

FOR THE PRICE OF A MF SYSTEM ....they should focus and shoot as fast as any 35mm on the market.

Just the body without the focus and even without the sensor cost more that the best digital 35 mm camera on the market , but....we have to be happy because we do not have to use AA batteries !THEY INVENTED THE LITHIUM BATTERIES!!!!!!
For me it is very hard to trust about the focus improvement ,
I think it will be better to do not make and update of the camera ,
 

pedro39photo

New member
Lets see the good perspective of this 2012 photokina with no revolutionary products, but just evolutions...

The reflection that i make for next 2 years in DMF:

No brands introducing really revolutionary's produts, and with the world economical sinking i thing this not attract many users of the previous models to spend losts of $$$K in small upgrade to the new generation of H5D or DF+...

Last week i spoke with one seller of a photo camera shop in my country and he just tell me that the d800 and nikon lens sales this year was the really life saving for many camera shops...with more than 60 ( d800) bodys in waiting lists, plus the lens sales associated with this...

ITS REALLY VERY IMPORTANT TO EVERYONE EVOLVE IN THIS INDUSTRY, THAT SOMETIMES A REVOLUTIONARY PRODUCT EMERGES !

I saw that with the 5D mark II full HD movies in large sensor for 2.800$ (Indie movie market revolution) the D800, with the quality of the sensor and the MP count revolution in 35mm, with the H system hasselblad was the first truly Digital MF design ...etc
 

nenes

New member
HASSELBLAD AT LEAST CHANGE THE DESING OF THE CAMERA!!!!
MAMIYA has never been a camera to follow,(not in desing ,not in technology,not in lenses) until phaseone backs came out and hasselblad closed their sistem...IF MAMIYA WILL HAVE A HASSELBLAD 503 cw DESING i will be happy to keep going with it (same desing)and better technology but it is not the case
 

Stefan Steib

Active member
Hmm. Stefan of course sources the Mamiya shutter for the HCam, as do Alpa now for the FPS. Will be interesting to hear from them as to how the spec of the shutter has changed.
I can only say the very best about the actual DF shutter. We did not have one single broken shutter since we sell the Camera. I personally have now done timelapse tests with my demo, where we captured rows fo 500-800 shots, some of them at minus 10 degrees.

No Problem. The shutter is stable that much can I say !

Regards
Stefan
 
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