Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

[Dale Allyn]

OK, Gents, what am I missing? (Well let's not go there.) What I mean is that my back is set to "Daylight" and the files always open in C-1 at 4400K, but Bob mentions 5500K. Are you getting 5500K from files opened "as shot" or "daylight" under WB mode?

If so, something is not getting communicated on my setup. I'd love to have my daylight files open at 5500K as a starting point. What am I missing?

EDIT: In my installation of C-1 v4.1.1.1.... WB mode for "shot" and "daylight" are both 4400K. Flash is 5500K (first time I checked that), and the others are about where you'd expect. Perhaps my install has a corruption for the "daylight" and "shot" modes. Thoughts?

 

[Bob]

C1 opens as-shot "daylight" files at 4300 and "flash" at 5500.
Both are more or less correct since daylight can fun from about 3500 to 6300 depending on time of year, atmospheric, time of day, and exposure to sky.
So 4300 is as good as any other specific number. Some programs use 5500 as "standard" daylight, but according to ANSI and ISO (they have no artistic taste) Northern daylight mid latitude migth be at 6500, direct mid-day sunlight at 5000. So what you have is what you have. There is no "correct" white balance for all outdoor conditions, so what is a software designer to do? Pick one, and 4300 is as good as any.
-bob

 

[tashley]

Bill

It is not true for only Phase backs. The M8 files are noticeably superior when processed by C4.5.II! I hate the workflow, interface et al but you can't argue with the results. Just MHO.........YMMV

Woody

Hi Woody,

I agree and am working on a new workflow that means importing all files from all cameras into LR, using it as the catalogue for everything and the RAW developer for most things then, when I have my Picks and my Star Ratings sorted, getting those high-rated but C1-suited files put through C1 and processed into TIFF for reimporting into LR.

It's not very convenient but it does mean one core workflow and one core catalogue. I'm just going to treat C1 as I would Photoshop - a place where 'special needs' files go for TLC.

Given that I'm generally working towards a show of some kind, and that might just be twenty prints or so, the volumes will be fine... but this is clearly not something that's going to suit the wedding boys!

t

 

[Dale Allyn]

C1 opens as-shot "daylight" files at 4300 and "flash" at 5500.
Both are more or less correct since daylight can fun from about 3500 to 6300 depending on time of year, atmospheric, time of day, and exposure to sky.
So 4300 is as good as any other specific number. Some programs use 5500 as "standard" daylight, but according to ANSI and ISO (they have no artistic taste) Northern daylight mid latitude migth be at 6500, direct mid-day sunlight at 5000. So what you have is what you have. There is no "correct" white balance for all outdoor conditions, so what is a software designer to do? Pick one, and 4300 is as good as any.
-bob

Bob, thanks for the confirmation of the settings (my daylight shows 4400K rather than 4300K, but no biggy).

Re. "standard daylight": I get that. I'm into spectroscopy, critical viewing light, selective color absorption, north daylight as viewing in differing hemispheres, etc. for my work. I'll be using the "flash" setting of WB mode for awhile I think because it more closely approximates my shooting habits. 4400K in all but a few cases renders my images so blue that it's distracting as a starting point.

A good day for picking up pointers in C-1. Thanks folks.

 

[Jack]

Jack,
I get the camera wb settings, it is only the camera profile that is stuck at "flash", but that does not matter much.
-bob

That's what I was trying to say -- also that you can change the default sharpening settings.

 

[Jack]

4400K in all but a few cases renders my images so blue that it's distracting as a starting point.

Dale, is your back set to daylight WB and C1 set to "shot" when you get 4400? I get 4300/+2 for the daylight WB/tint.

 

[Bill Caulfeild-Browne]

Oh sith! Now I've got to try my Canon files too.....Thanks for the advice!
Bill

 

[Mark Gowin]

... I am a LR addict for its cataloguing abilities and it really is where I keep everything. So now I have to process each shot from a 40mb image to a 235mb image so I can keep it in LR for reference purposes. Which kind of sucks...

Tim and others, for what its worth, Microsoft Expression Media is an alternative product for cataloging images (actually it will catalogue about any kind of file - they call it digital asset management). Microsoft has a teaming arrangement to market their product with C1. I saw a demonstration of the product a few days ago and it appeared to be capable even though the interface looked little clunky. Personally, I have no experience with it so I can't say how well it works. I have provided a couple links below. I believe a free trial is available. Also, if you decide to purchase it, let me know and I can help you with a way to get a discount. I don't have any affiliation with Microsoft, Phase One, or this product so please don't shoot the messenger if it doesn't suit you. Just trying to offer options here. Perhaps someone else on the forum has experience with this product and can offer an informed opinion.

http://www.microsoft.com/prophoto/bettertogether.aspx

http://www.microsoft.com/expression/products/Overview.aspx?key=media

Mark

 

[Bob]

Except that it does a terrible job with phase raw files.
I have abandoned it because of that.
-bob

 

[Dale Allyn]

Dale, is your back set to daylight WB and C1 set to "shot" when you get 4400? I get 4300/+2 for the daylight WB/tint.

Jack, yes, back set to daylight and C-1 set to "shot" mine shows 4400/+1. But remember I'm using a P25+ so perhaps that minor difference is because you and Bob are using "grown-up digital backs" and not this lowly "trainer".

...or maybe it's a v4.5 and v4.1 thing. (?)

 

[tashley]

Tim and others, for what its worth, Microsoft Expression Media is an alternative product for cataloging images (actually it will catalogue about any kind of file - they call it digital asset management).

Mark

Hey Mark, thanks for the info and the offer but as Macbeth said, "I am in blood stepped in so far that returning were as tedious as to go o'er"

Or something like that. In other words, I've got tens of thousands of images in LR and it doesn't just know where they are and what they're worth, but it remembers what I once wanted to do with them... I can't imagine trying to transition them to another system, not do I want to run two catalogues so I'm kind of trapped. Happily so, however, since I think LR is brilliant and since I know that no one RAW program will be best for every past present and future camera. So it seems inevitable that it gets used in a hybrid way.

 

[Bob]

Jack, yes, back set to daylight and C-1 set to "shot" mine shows 4400/+1. But remember I'm using a P25+ so perhaps that minor difference is because you and Bob are using "grown-up digital backs" and not this lowly "trainer".

...or maybe it's a v4.5 and v4.1 thing. (?)

They are all trainers, like girlfriends there is always the next one.
-bob

 

[Mark Gowin]

I understand Tim, I am a LR junkie as well.

Mark

 

[Dale Allyn]

They are all trainers, like girlfriends there is always the next one.
-bob

Yes, Bob, I'm looking forward to the next one. I mean digital back – my wife has suggested that a "next" girlfriend will be much more expensive than a DB and that I probably can't afford it.

 

[Bob]

Dale. you speak truth
-bob

 

[Guy Mancuso]

5300 seems to be my magic kelvin temp. Basically i will find the one image to WB off of than copy that setting select all than apply to everything. Start going through the images and process as i go than if I hit a series that changes i will find another WB image copy , select all and copy to everything. I do this through the whole shooting session and make the quick global changes as i go. This provides much faster working times. I will work each image hit command D than arrow keys to go to the next image. Once you get the hang of working in C1 it becomes fast.

Now for LR users a quick way to get around the Phase files issue is to create a preset on import . So first is exposure get a base line than get a baseline on color temp because it is way off. Than make a preset on importing the raws in and you won't notice any of the junk it does to the files. The other issue is noise with LR it is much worse than C1,so your going to have to deal with that and the files out of C1 are crisper looking but all of that could be done doing a preset on import. Even so i threw LR off my system forever. Ever camera i have shot with I like the files much better in C1 . DMR, M8, Nikon and canons and even does a nice job on my Oly 520.

Now as far as a catalogue system obviously I make my own with separate drives on my Mac Pro. I have Raws only drive with name and date and a final drive which is all processed files with name and date. I also have a working raw drive that is 3 months deep on raw files and process off that drive and save to desktop than move to it's home on the Final drive, when it fills up just replace the drive and store the old one. I just did that the other day filled up a 1tb raw drive.

 

[Dale Allyn]

5300 seems to be my magic kelvin temp. Basically i will find the one image to WB off of than copy that setting select all than apply to everything. Start going through the images and process as i go than if I hit a series that changes i will find another WB image copy , select all and copy to everything. I do this through the whole shooting session and make the quick global changes as i go...

Guy, this is basically what I've doing, but it just isn't a process that I like until the WB is at least within a couple of hundred K. It's just a nit pick on my part, but looking at 200 ice-blue images after a day of shooting outdoors is just a buzz-kill for me. Now I'll select all and nudge them to 5200 or 5500 or so, scan through them, drink some wine or a little Belvedere and then do as you do (and I have been) by working down the line of applying what can be carried to each image.

I agree, that the system does work nicely for quick global adjustments, but I just needed to get past that first WB bump. Now that that's cleared up I'm a happy camper.

 

[Jack]

I would agree that for most outdoor images, somewhere between 5000 - 5500 seems about right.