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Best older digital back for stitched landscapes on view camera?
- Thread starter PhotoTurbo
- Start date
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
I try to isolate myself from sales (I have too many numbers in my head as it is!), but I think $4000-$5000. Though as Head of Technical Services I do know that the unit we have in stock has a warranty of 6 months remaining against mechanical failures.
The capture workflow is a bit of a Pain in the Butt. At least on par with shooting 4x5 film or 8x10 film and more than the difficulty of shooting with a tech camera and single shot digital back. It's not for the feint of heart. However, if you can stand it, the rewards are phenomenal; as Michael Reichman said "A well shot 16 bit 60 Megapixel frame is quite something to work with. The level of detail is astonishing – beyond anything most people have seen, except maybe from a large format scanning back. Prints that are 22" X 30" are easily made, and even larger ones are quite possible." (emphasis added). Not bad for $4k-$5k
So in summary for image quality when the subject is not moving [FXplus + TonsOfWork + Patience = P65plus - $35,000]
. Well, obviously a rough equivelancy, but you get the idea.As an added bonus, every FX+ can be used either visible-only, infrared-only, or infracolor.
Off to the bars.
Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
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Clawery
New member
We have 3 FX+ units in stock and they are $4,990.00 each. They are great backs, but as Doug explained they require a heavy work-flow.
Chris Lawery (Email Me)
Sales Manager
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 404.234.5195
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up
Chris Lawery (Email Me)
Sales Manager
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 404.234.5195
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up
I try to isolate myself from sales (I have too many numbers in my head as it is!), but I think $4000-$5000. Though as Head of Technical Services I do know that the unit we have in stock has a warranty of 6 months remaining against mechanical failures.
The capture workflow is a bit of a Pain in the Butt. At least on par with shooting 4x5 film or 8x10 film and more than the difficulty of shooting with a tech camera and single shot digital back. It's not for the feint of heart. However, if you can stand it, the rewards are phenomenal; as Michael Reichman said "A well shot 16 bit 60 Megapixel frame is quite something to work with. The level of detail is astonishing – beyond anything most people have seen, except maybe from a large format scanning back. Prints that are 22" X 30" are easily made, and even larger ones are quite possible." (emphasis added). Not bad for $4k-$5k
So in summary for image quality when the subject is not moving [FXplus + TonsOfWork + Patience = P65plus - $35,000]
As an added bonus, every FX+ can be used either visible-only, infrared-only, or infracolor.
Off to the bars.
Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up
Last edited:
Clawery
New member
It does required being tethered and can work on modern Macs. The software is called PowerPhase FX Image Capture. Currently I only see a OS 9 download on Phase One's web site, but will have Doug Peterson verify that you can get a OS 10 version.
Chris Lawery (Email Me)
Sales Manager
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 404.234.5195
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up
Carsten in the Fun with Large Format images thread there is a pretty good discussion of what it's like to work with a LF scan back. It is specifically about the Betterlight back, but from what I've seen of the PowerPhase it has an incredibly similar workflow (think difference between Canon and Nikon)--I use a Betterlight back for work.
H
Hoang
Guest
Is there any way to use such a system with a PC laptop?
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
The FX+ is compatible with OSX 10.4. It is compatible with both PowerPC and Intel chips. You do need to tether by firewire. IMO your best bet for tethering is a (two generations ago) Mac Powerbook G4 12". It would be portable, cheap, compact, and offer a pretty good screen on which to view your images in the field.
I'll have to check on a PC version. I have no idea.
I'll have to check on a PC version. I have no idea.
PhotoTurbo
New member
Interesting, how long does a capture take?
routlaw
Member
Doug the first digital camera I owned was the Phase One Photo Phase some years ago and ran that for awhile on an old Windows NT box before I bought my first Mac. I still have the software disc (PC & Mac) laying around somewhere should someone want it after buying one of these FX units, which might work with the FX scan back. Although in those days everything was SCSI, so there might be a recognition issue due to the different connection.
Can't say for sure with the FX, but my Betterlight in the field will run anywhere from around 30 seconds to 3-4 minutes usually. This at F16 and ISO 200 (the lowest on the Super 6K-HS) and line time around 1/60th to 1/240th of a second. On a few occasions I have used a line time at 1/30th of a second with ISO up to 800 give or take a fraction with no problems.... yet that is. However a line time of 1/8th second will yield a very long scan time of around 16 minutes... might get some interesting results this way but have not tried it myself.
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
There are a lot of fun images you can create with a scan back which are otherwise impossible, or at least un-thought-of. For instance a very fast scan time on a slowly moving car will not blur it but rather horizontally compress or expand it. So a Limo might look like a Pinto or vice versa.It would be fun to set it up with a fast scan time next to a busy street and see the very short car blurs
Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up
routlaw
Member
Check out Shelley Lake's website, she has an image or two up in NYC doing just this with her BL scan back.It would be fun to set it up with a fast scan time next to a busy street and see the very short car blurs
PhotoTurbo
New member
How well might a Hasselblad V96C back work for my application?
shakeshuck
Member
Doug/Chris,
I've been contemplating a scanning back for ages, and never knew these existed... the Phase site lists PowerPhase as 48MP and scsi so I didn't consider them any more. Is there any info available to view?
I presume they have to have a hefty battery carried along with them, like the BetterLights?
Graham.
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
The PowerPhase was a predecessor to the PowerPhaseFX+.
http://www.phaseone.com/upload/fx+us.pdf
No battery required; it runs off of the power from the firewire port. I ran this setup (tripod, view camera, scan back, computer, firewire cable) in my local park about a year ago with two different MacBookPros.
My recommendation would be to to pick up a Powerbook G4 12". The firewire power during the PowerPC days was a bit more stable. Also the 12" will be smaller, cheaper, and will have no problem with OSX 10.4 (10.5 is not supported by the scan back software).
It also slides directly into your ground glass spot, so you can use the large ground glass for all focusing/composition.
There are several major compromises in this choice; no 10.5 support, tethered only, scan times of several minutes, good tripod required, slow workflow, and moving objects will be drawn strangely. However, if those compromises are okay with you the result is resolution higher than the P65+ at 10-15% of it's price.
Also note that Phase One still sells, supports, and services these items. We sent our three used units in for a full mechanical servicing and cleaning and so each unit has a bit over 5 months of remaining repair warranty, which is very uncommon for a used scanning back.
Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
No chance.
Service and support for the backs will continue indefinitely, but the software will not be updated.
A good condition used 12" PowerBook and spare battery should cost $400-$700.
"Old threads never die; they just... fade away"
Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up
shakeshuck
Member
Doug, after a few quick googles, I have an extra couple of questions:
There is mention of autofocus with these backs. Although that sounds strange, can you tell me more about it?
The BL backs allow you to scan at lower-than-max resolutions, to speed a scan up. Can this also be done via the PowerPhase software, or do you have to scan at max and down-res it later if needed?
Cheers,
Graham.
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
Yes, just like the BL backs you can shoot at a large number of resolutions or ISOs to balance speed of scan with the quality and resolution of the scan. The preview scan works like this as it scans in (off the top of my head) 20 seconds but gives a pretty low resolution. You can also easily do partial frame scans at higher resolutions pretty quickly to preview sharpness, details in delicate highlights etc.
I didn't know they called their focus-by-tone system "autofocus" but this is how it works:
1) Take a preview scan
2) Select a desired "in focus point"
3) Turn on the focus detection mode
4) You will hear a garbled set of pitches (there is also a visual readout)
5) Rotate focus very slowly until you hear a clear solid tone (it's an F above middle C)
6) Take a high resolution partial frame scan to confirm that you are now in focus
7) Take the final high resolution full frame scan
It took a few hours for me to get used to but it worked remarkably well for me at my day in the park. It actually makes you wonder why such a thing is not possible with the P+ series. The Live View is nice, but I would also be happy with a pair of headphones you plug into the back for this focus detection method.
I didn't know they called their focus-by-tone system "autofocus" but this is how it works:
1) Take a preview scan
2) Select a desired "in focus point"
3) Turn on the focus detection mode
4) You will hear a garbled set of pitches (there is also a visual readout)
5) Rotate focus very slowly until you hear a clear solid tone (it's an F above middle C)
6) Take a high resolution partial frame scan to confirm that you are now in focus
7) Take the final high resolution full frame scan
It took a few hours for me to get used to but it worked remarkably well for me at my day in the park. It actually makes you wonder why such a thing is not possible with the P+ series. The Live View is nice, but I would also be happy with a pair of headphones you plug into the back for this focus detection method.