645DF+

[shortpballer]

I sold one to a member on here. He told me that the difference was HUGE! He said the autofocus problems he used to have with the DF (especially with the 300mm) have all been solved.

Hope this helps...

This is the email he sent me :
One day I was trying to use the 300mm f/4.5 AF lens on the Phase One 645AF camera body. The focus motor was very very loud, and the stupid camera never did stop hunting. It just kept trying and trying forever. Even when the image was already in focus, the camera kept tying to focus some more. When I released my finger and half-pressed again, then the camera finally decided to stop focusing, and there was no more sound from the motor. Now I tried the same lens on the new 645DF+, and the focus is perfect. The sound is not loud, and the focus only takes one second in speed mode, and two seconds in accuracy mode. So they really have fixed it, and my 300 is now usable. The new battery will be a welcome addition too. The 300 was the worst. Short lenses like the 45mm didn't give me any focus problem. But I am very happy with the new camera. Thank you.

 

[dougpeterson]

Has anyone have any updates regarding the DF+? By now some people should have them.

Have anyone played with the micro adjust function?

Thanks

Consistent feedback us to has been: "like a DF, but with faster AF that hunts far less frequently".

I think you're seeing the peak of the current design and concepts of the Mamiya 645. Fully matured and refined. By no means revolutionary, but the pinnacle of what evolutionary design gives you.

If you own a DF I would only upgrade if use autofocus extensively, in which case I think it's a very worthwhile upgrade, or if you only own one body and want a backup body (i.e. keep your DF as a backup and add a DF+ as your new mainstay). If you are currently on an AF or older, then I'd say it's a clearly worthwhile upgrade all around.

Also, we've not had one repair or DOA on any customer DF+ units so far. That's not saying that much given that we've only shipped moderate numbers and they've only been out there for weeks, but it's best point of data I can offer so far regarding claimed better reliability.

Of course the obvious answer wherever practical is to test and compare using a demo, rental, or loaner from your dealer. We have several in rental/demo for our customers and prospective customers. After all differences in autofocus are heavily dependent on subject matter, lens, style of shooting, ambient lighting etc, and other people's impressions of autofocus can only go so far as to inform you on how it will impact you.

 

[Dan Santoso]

Doug,

I thought it has micro adjust function correct me if I am wrong.

So the only improvement is AF?

Any other new features we should know about?


Thanks

 

[dougpeterson]

Doug,

I thought it has micro adjust function correct me if I am wrong.

So the only improvement is AF?

Any other new features we should know about?

There is an AF micro-adjust. I've used it. It's more "fine grain" than is probably necessary. It was hard, even in a very controlled environment to tell the difference between individual settings. In both bodies I tested the default setting (no adjustment) was the best setting.

In five years I can only think of a few times when a customer had a bias in Autofocus. However, knowing that such a bias could be corrected by the customer using this feature rather than 5-7 business day service in NY is, I suppose, comforting.

No other new features. Basically they looked at all their service reports on DFs and re-engineered and/or reinforced the parts that had failed to increase reliability/stability, made (IMO understated) improvements to the AF system, and added the AF micro adjust feature. It's exactly what it says it is: a DF+ is a DF that is better/improved . Nothing more, but nothing less.

It also includes the Li-Ion battery with charger.

 

[Dan Santoso]

Thanks Doug.

Btw do you know how much an used DF will cost approximately?

 

[dougpeterson]

Thanks Doug.

Btw do you know how much an used DF will cost approximately?

Only that vaguely speaking good condition bodies with warranty from a good dealer will likely be in the 2's.

Pricing on bodies is much more dependent on condition than backs since backs have no moving parts and, at least with P1, are pretty notorious for high reliability and longevity. I wouldn't buy a moderately beat up body (that I hang a 20k back and an important shoot on) for any price; with back's I'd be more willing to accept a moderately beat up back if it was working, well tested (by someone who really knows how to test the crap out of it) and came with some warranty/guarantee [assuming it was appropriate discounted for it's condition of course].

Best to contact one of our sales team and they can keep you apprised as specific bodies with specific pricing/warranty/condition/availability come up.

 

[GrahamWelland]

I don't have the DF+ but I can attest to the Li-Ion battery being a big improvement to overall DF/back reliability in the field. If you've ever suffered lock-ups then you might want to give it a try. Not cheap but worked for me (and I bitched like hell about it).

 

[dougpeterson]

I don't have the DF+ but I can attest to the Li-Ion battery being a big improvement to overall DF/back reliability in the field. If you've ever suffered lock-ups then you might want to give it a try. Not cheap but worked for me (and I bitched like hell about it).

As you should have. That was a dark period indeed. :cussing:

It was especially frustrating because it was hard to duplicate or isolate the exact cause which was some combination of battery/power, firmware that needed revising, environmental factors, and in some cases bad hardware.

Glad we have that behind us now.

Anyone who has a DF should be getting very reliable performance from it. If not, please contact your dealer for the appropriate troubleshooting.

 

[Dan Santoso]

Does DF+ Kit come with the lion battery? Thanks

 

[shortpballer]

Yes

Does DF+ Kit come with the lion battery? Thanks

 

[JoshMerwin]

I briefly tested it out at DT last week. It's a big performance upgrade over the DF. Specifically, it doesn't hunt for focus nearly as much as the DF does. I would guesstimate the DF hunted 70% of the time and the DF+ hunts maybe 10% of the time. Although in the past i used the DF to shoot models and i tested the DF+ on Doug and Lance's faces... I still prefer the H4x by far. But the DF+ is now a very usable camera.

 

[Dan Santoso]

Okay thanks, does a new df+ BO come with lion battery?

 

[MB100]

I have had a few chances to play with it...Starting with at the CaptureOne 7 Pro launch and a couple of times since then.

Autofocus seems to be the biggest improvement. Even in the dimly lit event space it was focusing surprisingly excellently. Personally I havn't had many problems with the 645DF autofocus, but the 645DF+ offers surprisingly improved AF which, if you use AF is certainly worth a look...

Also the new battery is a big plus, but I believe that this can also be used with the 645DF.....

Personally I have to believe that a new lens would be highly more useful then a new body especially considering as mentioned above the rumors of an entirely new body sometime this year.....

I have had a chance to play and test the 28mm LS and it is most excellent, compared to the old version but of course it will fall short of a tech cam.

 

[Bob]

I briefly tested it out at DT last week. It's a big performance upgrade over the DF. Specifically, it doesn't hunt for focus nearly as much as the DF does. I would guesstimate the DF hunted 70% of the time and the DF+ hunts maybe 10% of the time. Although in the past i used the DF to shoot models and i tested the DF+ on Doug and Lance's faces... I still prefer the H4x by far. But the DF+ is now a very usable camera.

I don'y know if Doug and Lance's faces are a good test for models LOL
-bob

 

[Dan Santoso]

I just got my DF+ like 2 hours ago.

I cant focus in dim light. Very hard to get a lock on. I am sure it is DOA.

My dealer will test it tomorrow.

 

[dougpeterson]

I just got my DF+ like 2 hours ago.

I cant focus in dim light. Very hard to get a lock on. I am sure it is DOA.

My dealer will test it tomorrow.

Sure the front switch isn't turned to continuous (wherein the focus will, by definition never lock)?

 

[Dan Santoso]

It was set to S.

I tested my DF+ with my friend's DF inside with window lighting. The DF+ was hard to get a lock on, it keeps rotating to find focus, Sometimes you cant focus at all. The DF was immediate to achieve focus when is pressed. Same object same lens same lighting.

I dropped it to my dealer today, they tested it and they say they found nothing wrong with my DF+. Totally different experience from mine. I am doing another test tomorrow.

 

[Dan Santoso]

new test shows that the df+ is slower in autofocus than the DF. I tested in indoor low light

Is this because of a brand new body? Does it need time to break in? I cant compare to another df+ because there is only 1 body at this moment.

 

[steve_cor]

Dan,
I have a DF+. As Doug says, if the camera body switch is turned to continuous, I get the same trouble. With the switch on "S", the camera will beep and the green dot inside the viewfinder will light when focus is achieved. Testing now on ISO 100, indoors, fluorescent lighting, is giving exposure of one second at f/5.6. Estimated focus speed is one second in speed mode, two seconds in accuracy mode. No hunting. I didn't use a timer, so I'm not saying exactly one second. Also, the autofocus assist beam is coming on.

Steve.

 

[Dan Santoso]

Hi Steve,

I did use S on the body. The autofocus will rotate the lens a few turn before focus lock in is achieve. The other DF body can achieve focus faster than the DF+.