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Is the P45+ back now over rated / over hyped?

proenca

Member
Sorry if this was unclear. I mean that within the mount you can change to any body (of that mount). With other brands the back and body are locked arbitrarily together and you cannot use your back with another body (as comes in hand for backups, replacements, or upgrading to a more recent body).

With a Contax mount back any Contax 645 body ever made will work with any Phase One Contax mount back. Likewise any M mount back will work with any M mount body.

An H3D-39 digital back will not work on an H4 body, nor even another H3D body unless they have been "matched" (unlocked) at the factory.
Thanks for the explanation : true, forgot about that malarky of "matching" backs :) indeed, once you have a P45+ of X mount, you can mount on every X camera of that that mount !

Still, the P45+ is a great mount with features that were ground breaking when it was released, make it a very actual and updated mount today.

Best,
 

Chris Giles

New member
You sound bitter. Doesn't the seller have just as much right to set a price? And your hypothesis is really not correct. Why should I sell something just because at this particular time the buyer is looking for a deal? If I put one of my compound microscopes on the market for $150,000, should I expect an immediate buyer? Should I just take any offer? If I can wait, why not wait?

I am not sure I agree with your "take it or leave it" philosophy.
I'm not bitter. Honestly, I'm perfectly happy shooting the H3DII 39, H1 film. I have a 5D3 and a 1DX. I'm 'kitted out' so to speak and happy.

But, it doesn't stop me looking at other stuff, prices relative to each other. I've just jumped back into film so I'm hawking around for film backs and the like. I just see Hassy stuff go for X amount, then I see Phase and Leaf stuff, P30, P45, Aptus 31mp backs etc all sit there unsold for what appears to me to be a terribly high price.

When I had a leaf aptus back it needed to go back to leaf for an IR sensor and calibration. The P25 back I had suffered quite severe blooming. It wasn't until I got the H3DII 39 that I thought I'd got something worth the money.

When I see listings for backs on Getdpi and LL often it seems to be the same sellers claiming it to be a used studio back. Nobody bites in the thread. It disappears and then 6 months later it pops up again. Same price, no takers.

The was one incidence when I saw a P45 (non plus) back online for £7500, it sold for £5400. Not an auction, an agreed sale.

I'm just trying to understand the mentality that's all.
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Doug on the intervoltmeter on the DF, it thought it only worked in manual mode, where you longest exposure could be 30 seconds, so if you needed 2 minutes or 60 seconds it would no longer function. The intervoltmeter controlled only the series, but still needed the camera for the shutter time. I used 30 seconds on my example which was my mistake. You need really both the intervoltmeter and the interval timer to allow multiple exposures i.e. like the Canon or Nikon remotes.

I may be totally wrong on that and it's good to know.
No you're right. I had forgotten that (forgive me, it is a bit obscure even for me).

You can only use the built in intervelometer for shorter shutters speeds.

However, the time machine guy will be glad to take a P1 Cable release and modify it for a DF. And since the DF itself can be set to shutter speeds up to 60 minutes long you could make this work.

I have one and would sell it to you, but only at a price you won't bite at because I know that once it comes down to it I don't want to part with it.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
However, the time machine guy will be glad to take a P1 Cable release and modify it for a DF. And since the DF itself can be set to shutter speeds up to 60 minutes long you could make this work.

I have one and would sell it to you, but only at a price you won't bite at because I know that once it comes down to it I don't want to part with it.
Damn it Doug, now there's something else I need to buy that'll work with all of my gear! :) I've been looking at building a cable for triggertrap for the DF but the time machine looks a more robust solution for use in the field.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Bottom line it's the only game in town that will do up to a one hour exposure. That right there creates demand even if its the only factor. A lot of shooters doing night sky, arch and other type of work that requires up to a hour than that is there only choice. A P25 and P30 plus maybe 25 minutes and you still may get some noise I tried 35 minutes on a P30 plus, Jack shot the P 45 on the same night for a hour and his files looked cleaner.
I had a discussion this weekend with a photographer I know who is a long exposure specialist and who now shoots with a P25+ but originally used a P45+ extensively. (Long story involving MFDB & deep water ... RIP). His experience mirrors yours in that the P45+ does produce cleaner and more elastic files than the P25+ when shooting at base ISO and for longer. On paper they are all xpose+ backs but as Doug has also stated before they do perform differently. I know that my own P25+ will certainly easily shoot 15+ min clean files but beyond that its a gradual quality fall off. However, it is way cleaner at 30mins than my IQ160 at 2+ mins.

Bottom line - P45+ is still very desirable (heck, I still want one myself).
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
If and when it will or can be replaced by a new Dalsa sensor than it will still demand a high value . Its now being off the new market it becomes a supply and demand issue. Heck we may see prices go up on a P45 Plus. But if a new Dalsa sensor it may drop to the floor on value. Its kind of a risky buy since we do not know what is next but lets face it Phase is not blind either and they know they need to replace it.
 

fotom

New member
That is something I do not understand. While the Hasselblads are very expensive in Germany the PhaseOne DBs are found sometimes for good value.

I found this, but I am not sure if there is a big difference between P45 and 45+?

I was first interested in it but then found the complete H3- set.
 

gazwas

Active member
I'm just trying to understand the mentality that's all.
Chris, maybe its just me but I find all this long exposure rubbish being the reason for high prices to be very centralised to gear geek (and I include myself) forums like this.

IMO the main reason people are asking so much for these backs is once upon a time the owner paid around £30,000 (inc VAT) for the back and they expect more than the £5K people are willing to pay. Remember the P45+ was once Phase Ones's top shelf back, just like the IQ180 today.

P45+ and H39 may have the same chip but the P45+ has only just been discontinued while the H3 seems ancient in comparision now we have the H5.
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
That is something I do not understand. While the Hasselblads are very expensive in Germany the PhaseOne DBs are found sometimes for good value.

I found this, but I am not sure if there is a big difference between P45 and 45+?
Devil is in the details.

P45+ maxes at 1 hour
P45 maxes out at "several minutes"

Also has a few other improvements (e.g. moderately better screen), but the long exposure seems most relevant to the open market price difference.
 

torger

Active member
As a second hand back I do think the P45+ is a bit overpriced compared to alternatives (Leaf 33 megapixel backs for example), but if you do need long exposures it's the way to go, and the good repuation concerning reliability is a plus too.

Overpriced to me that is, for my uses a Dalsa-based Leaf back with more accurate color, better tech cam integration and better LCD is both a better and cheaper choice.

I think like Gareth though, that the main reason the price is higher is not long exposures, but because it is "new". Many/most of the alternatives are older backs, and older are cheaper. The best deals for us that like it cheap can often be had for the first generation backs of a new sensor.
 

proenca

Member
As a second hand back I do think the P45+ is a bit overpriced compared to alternatives (Leaf 33 megapixel backs for example), but if you do need long exposures it's the way to go, and the good repuation concerning reliability is a plus too.

Overpriced to me that is, for my uses a Dalsa-based Leaf back with more accurate color, better tech cam integration and better LCD is both a better and cheaper choice.

I think like Gareth though, that the main reason the price is higher is not long exposures, but because it is "new". Many/most of the alternatives are older backs, and older are cheaper. The best deals for us that like it cheap can often be had for the first generation backs of a new sensor.
The problem with any second hand back is warranty, or lack of.

Not that I've heard that Mamiya / Leaf backs are unreliable of some sort, but "on paper" I was afraid. Until recently I was pondering about buying either a p45+ or a Aptus 75S.

Problem was :

Aptus 75S : the vent thing. vents "suck" air and that means dirt and dust. perhaps its 100% unfounded but I coudlnt stop worrying about it.

P45+ : the price vs Aptus. Easy to get an Aptus 75S for 4.5k euros. P45+ is hard to get one for less than 7k euros. On the plus side, its durability its almost legendary, nice software, simple OS, simple menus, great long exposures.

So the prices are a bit steep. But again, if I'm buying a very expensive digital back without warranty, I'd like to buy the reliable one or at the very least, the one with bullet proof reputation.
 
The was one incidence when I saw a P45 (non plus) back online for £7500, it sold for £5400. Not an auction, an agreed sale.

I'm just trying to understand the mentality that's all.
I always wonder whether a back (or other item) sells at the asking price. There are a number of items that I couldn't afford at listed price that sold for less than I could believe.
 

Sharokin

New member
My friend, a well known food photographer in the Bay replaced his P45+ with a Hasselblad H4D50 and couldn't be any happier. The files from the H are much more pleasing to his, and my eyes than anything from the P45+/Hassy V combo.
 

proenca

Member
I always wonder whether a back (or other item) sells at the asking price. There are a number of items that I couldn't afford at listed price that sold for less than I could believe.
Make an offer. If its sensible, seller might take it.

I sold my Noctilux 0.95asph here together with my 24mm Elmarit because the buyer made me a nice offer and I prefered to sell both of the lens to one person instead of dealing with two people ; he got both at a nice price, I got less hassle and what I wanted.

I also made an offer ( 10.500 euros ) for a mint Leica S2 + Leica S 70mm. It was accepted. Seller was happy and I'm very happy.

When buying and selling really expensive stuff ( rare lens, digital backs, medium format digital, etc ) the prospect buyers list is on the scarce side. So try your luck, it might pay off :)
 
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