The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

IQ backs and live view

scatesmd

Workshop Member
IQ series digital backs | Video tutorials

What do you think of this method that does not use the focus mask? I assume it would work for tilt. This is about all I can find on the web.

Doug Peterson has a more complex method that uses the mask and LV that is systematic. He would be better able to explain it than I would and maybe he will see this.

Steve

The video I am referring to is at the bottom of the page.
 

rga

Member
IQ series digital backs | Video tutorials

What do you think of this method that does not use the focus mask? I assume it would work for tilt. This is about all I can find on the web.

Doug Peterson has a more complex method that uses the mask and LV that is systematic. He would be better able to explain it than I would and maybe he will see this.

Steve

The video I am referring to is at the bottom of the page.
I don't think live view has focus mask. If it does, can someone please explain how to do that?
Thanks,
Bob
 
I use an IQ back with an Arca Swiss tech camera for outdoor landscape work. For longer lenses (120 and a 180mm) the camera is mounted on a rail and focussed with LV. This enables close macro work with a long rear extension and is very accurate. It also dispenses with the need for the 2 separate (and bulky) rear extenders that normally are used with these lenses.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
I don't think live view has focus mask. If it does, can someone please explain how to do that?
Thanks,
Bob
One or the other. Not both at the same time.

LV in full screen or zoom mode. Shoot and review to see the focus mask.
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
I screwed up (in a good way). I normally use a 10 stop ND to smoke water and have several in different sizes to include the one I needed for the 40 (it also fits my Mamiya 120 macro). I keep thinking I needed a 3-stop in order to use LV with the lens set to either f/22 or higher so ordered one (or at least I thought). I needed a filter 67mm however for some dumb reason ordered a 52 which I already had :facesmack:. So to make a long story short and to stop from making a complete fool of myself - the 52mm 3-stop filter arrived yesterday only for me to realize it's too damn small for the 40. All is not lost however as I finally put the 10-stop on went outside in a bright AZ sky and setting the f/stop at 8 and 11 found I can do LV that way. Now I have an extra filter!

I feel I should be standing in front of the group saying Hi I'm Don and I'm a gear slut....

Okay that's off my chest I feel much better. :salute:
 

scatesmd

Workshop Member
I don't think live view has focus mask. If it does, can someone please explain how to do that?
Thanks,
Bob
I apologize for my imprecision in the language here. I did not mean to imply both could be used simultaneously, but rather sequentially. I am also not aware of an ability to use focus mask in live view.

The responses in this thread imply that there isn't a set method people use with live view on the tech cams. I need to play with it more and see if I can incorporate LV into my flow better and test its limits.

Steve
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
I use focus mask to adjust tilt and distance. Then Jack changes all my settings, and then it's sharp.
;)
--Matt
 

rga

Member
I use focus mask to adjust tilt and distance. Then Jack changes all my settings, and then it's sharp.
;)
--Matt
Hi Matt,
Putting aside the Jack part of your comment ( :grin: ), how do you use focus mask to adjust tilt and distance? I would guess, since focus mask is not available in live view, that you take a WAG, shoot a frame to see what focus mask shows, adjust and shoot another frame, and repeat until you're satisfied?
Thanks for any insight you can provide,
Bob
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Bob,

Oh, it's iterative, all right. Shoot, adjust, shoot, adjust... but that's (to me) the real strength of digital. I had great difficulty with large format film because I had no idea how the picture would turn out. With a digital back on a tech camera, I can keep adjusting until it's right. Focus mask is very good for telling you which way to turn the knob to improve matters.

I never use live view. I also compose iteratively.

Best,

Matt
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Doug Peterson has a more complex method that uses the mask and LV that is systematic. He would be better able to explain it than I would and maybe he will see this.
When you break it out into words and detail every step this seems like a long/slow/tedious workflow. In reality I find it's very snappy, reliable, and almost surreally pleasurable of a process as compared to my days focusing ground glass where 1) you could not focus at shooting aperture but had to evaluate wide open or near wide-open 2) you had to specifically move the loupe to each area -- back and forth -- as you made any change.

Step 1: Establish sharp background
Option 1 - If the furthest important subject matter is infinity then simply set the lens to infinity*.
Option 2 - If the furthest important subject matter is closer than infinity then use Live View to focus on it (at near shooting aperture) or use iterative Focus Mask shoot-and-compare to establish the far subject matter as ideally-sharp.

At the end of step 1 take a moment to burn into your brain the amount of focus mask which is being indicated. Is it a few speckles, a lot of spots, a solid mass? This will be your reference for comparison in step 3.

Step 2: Add tilt based on experience/geometry, be conservative
There are some geometric rules of thumb (Jack can cover those) and some gut-feelings you'll develop after shooting with a certain gear combo and subject matter type. Error on the side of being conservative.

Step 3: Adjust focus point using Step 1 as reference for background. Initially (having just increased tilt) you will have less strong an indication of the focus mask on your background than in Step 1. Adjust focus and reshoot and you'll notice the strength of focus mask on the background increases. In a few itterations your focus mask will be the same strength as in Step 1. This is the ideal placement of focus for this amount of tilt.

Step 4: Evaluate foreground to determine if you have enough tilt
Now that your focus is set such that (with the current amount of tilt) the background is sharp, evaluate the foreground. If it's sharp then you nailed the amount of tilt. If it's a bit soft then increase tilt (be conservative) and repeat Step 3.

Step 5: Confirm
The first two steps should give you very high confidence that you're sharp everywhere. However, before I break down a tripod, or otherwise call it quits I'm always going to check the image at 100% and pan around the image to important areas of subject matter.

This process is high confidence, straight forward (if not "tactile" in the same sense as a view camera and ground glass), and can be done with a scotch in one hand. The places you can go wrong are:
- Guesstimating too high an amount of tilt in step 2. Anyone who has over tilted on a view camera knows the response of the camera becomes unintuitive and you'll start chasing your tail. Be conservative in your initial guess and worst case you'll have to add a tad more in step 4 and repeat step 3. Which, once you've done this method a few times, only adds 10-15 seconds to your process.
- If there are major changes in lighting between your reference shot in step 1 and your evaluation of the background in step 3 then this method falls apart. The entire process should take well under a minute once you're familiar with it, so it can definitely be used in dynamic lighting, but if lighting is changing very fast it will not work. In such cases using focus presets would be recommended.

Watching the focus mask grow between shots, and then recede a bit if you go too far is really pleasurable for me. It takes away a lot of the guess work and allows you to be very precise rather than end up very conservative (which you must be when on a view camera and making all judgements based on wide-open viewing and guesstimations of how much you can save by stopping down). A special shout out goes to the Arca R body which makes this process even nicer since the focus mechanism is so minutely accurate that you can easily iterate in small increments and - taking note of what number you're on in one frame - easily return to the previous increment if you determine you've gone too far.

*Which at some point in the past you've aready calibrated the offset for, shimmed, or mechanically adjusted (depending on brand of tech camera).
 

rga

Member
Doug,
Thank you! This is very helpful. Three questions popped into my head after reading this and I'm hoping you will have the patience to answer:
1. Is it correct to assume that this process is to be done at the final shooting aperture?

2. With focus mask (FM), often the background (or entire image) is too dark for FM to give a reading at, say, the 50% or even 30% level. Is going down in sensitivity OK?

3. What kind of Scotch do you recommend? :watch:

Thanks again for taking the time to write out this process for us,
Bob
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
1. Yes. You can insert added confidence by doing this process 1-2 stops more open than shooting aperture. But I do not find that necessary.
2. Absolutely. The joy of this method is that it only uses FM in a comparative, and not absolute sense. It's not a matter of the focus mask saying "this is in focus" but rather "these two images are equally sharp" in this area of the frame. Consequently the threshold setting becomes relatively unimportant; turn it up and down as needed, just don't change it mid-process.
3. The first glass should be of good quality, especially if someone else is paying. After that the requirements drop rapidly. Do note that after 3 or so scotches your enjoyment of this methodology will quickly increase, as will your confidence in it's efficacy, but actual results may deteriorate.

We can illustrate this process to potential tech camera users using our Remote Demo Center (screen+audio+video+file sharing). Just shoot me an email.
 

rga

Member
When we meet I will bring a bottle of Lagavulin and the first bottle is on me!

Thanks Doug. I will take you up on the on-line demo, but need to find a date. Looking forward to meeting you if you are ever out on the other coast :)
Bob
 

jotloob

Subscriber Member
Thank you Doug .

Your described workflow explains very well part of my questions in the thread
" Show us your technical camera " .
But correct focusing , even with Focus Mask , still seems to be a bit of Trial and Error buisness .
I could live very well with that , but my backs do Not have the Focus Mask ability . Do you have any further suggestions ?
 

rga

Member
Thank you Doug .

Your described workflow explains very well part of my questions in the thread
" Show us your technical camera " .
But correct focusing , even with Focus Mask , still seems to be a bit of Trial and Error buisness .
I could live very well with that , but my backs do Not have the Focus Mask ability . Do you have any further suggestions ?
When I had a P65+ I ended up taking a Mac Air in the field with me and shot tethered using C1 and Focus Mask within the software. Worked really well except for the added weight and electronics in the field (no studio shooting...).
 
Basically to focus and tilt/swing using LV, I follow exactly the same process as I did on LF, which is procedure I here. Basically I focus a bit, tilt a bit, focus a bit, the focus and tilt are always going in the same direction, as soon as I need to go in the opposite direction, I'm focused as best as can be and then stop down.

So the common example is something high and distant something low and close, requiring front tilt, I focus somewhere in the middle to distant, tilt forward, move focus forward (plane of focus comes back) iterate double tapping on the LV basically top (tilt), middle (focus), bottom (check).

As for settings it depends on the scene, but generally brightness is in the middle and quality is adjusted depending on light favouring as best quality as possible. Focus, don't touch, wait for it to settle. This is the most frustrating part for GG users.
 

rga

Member
Basically to focus and tilt/swing using LV, I follow exactly the same process as I did on LF, which is procedure I here. Basically I focus a bit, tilt a bit, focus a bit, the focus and tilt are always going in the same direction, as soon as I need to go in the opposite direction, I'm focused as best as can be and then stop down.

So the common example is something high and distant something low and close, requiring front tilt, I focus somewhere in the middle to distant, tilt forward, move focus forward (plane of focus comes back) iterate double tapping on the LV basically top (tilt), middle (focus), bottom (check).

As for settings it depends on the scene, but generally brightness is in the middle and quality is adjusted depending on light favouring as best quality as possible. Focus, don't touch, wait for it to settle. This is the most frustrating part for GG users.
By "focus forward" do you mean change the lens focus as if you were focusing closer to the camera?
Thanks,
Bob
 

jotloob

Subscriber Member
Thank you guys for your feedback .

Some years ago , I have attended a LINHOF workshop at their plant .
The main topic was focusing , tilt/swing and shift with LF cameras . All participants also received a little RODENSTOCK DOF + TILT/SHIFT calculator . A kind of pocket slide rule thing , which I found very helpful when shooting LF and focusing on GG .

But with a GG size for a 37x49 sensor , I find it almost impossible to properly focus even when using a good loupe .

My CFV backs have no focus mask function .
Also , they have a FW800 connector which excludes the use of a MAC BOOK AIR . Despite that , I hate to carry a MAC BOOK with me .

I think , all the trial and error steps would be much easier , if the tilt or swing axis would go right through the middle of the lens .
With an ALPA , they unfortunately do not .
That means , when you do , for example , a forward tilt , your previous focus setting for a certain object is immediately incorrect .

Regarding all disadvantages of the suggested actions , and I can't see any advantage , make me keep my fingers away from tilt and swing operations .
 
Top