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IQ backs and live view

gerald.d

Well-known member
Hi all -

Something just went through my mind and I thought I'd share it here, hopefully to get some other perspectives on the subject.

I've never once used live view with my IQ180. Not even to test it out. For me, using a digital back on anything other than my AF is such a slow and deliberate process, that taking a test shot and reviewing it is as "live" as I need.

I believe I'm right in saying that to get the best out of live view you need to use an ND filter, and if so, putting this on and then removing it for the shot would I expect be an even slower process than shooting and adjusting?

Am I missing something obvious here? Would anyone who uses live view as part of their process care to talk through why they find it more useful than a shoot/review/adjust/shoot approach?

I'm keen to learn what benefits there might be to introducing the use of live view into my workflow.

(Usage scenario is architecture/cityscapes/landscapes on a tech cam)

Kind regards,

Gerald.
 

goesbang

Member
Gerald, like you , I find that for 90% of my work, shooting a frame and reviewing on the back or on a tethered lappy gives me much more useful information.
However, there are some circumstances where I have found live-view invaluable.
For example, when I am shooting interiors, I will sometimes place a foreground element very close to the lens and shoot wide open with the 23HR, letting the bulk of the space fall slightly out of focus. Using live-view here is faster than the other method, even though I have the Alpa HPF rings.
Another is when using tilt with the 120Macro for still-life. Frankly, it's invaluable in this situation.
I have a short-barrel 40HR but haven't got my tilt adapter for it yet, but I anticipate I will use live-view when tilting with this lens also.
Cheers,
 
Using a tech cam does change things. On the RZ I don't think I've ever tried using live view (I don't even know how so I guess that's true), however on a tech cam I use it all the time, to the point that I don't actually have a GG for my Techno (although I do think I'll get one due to a drawback I'll mention below).

1. It works really well as I find I can get to a level of detail that my eyes simply cannot on a GG. I use an external powered firewire hub in the field to save battery (I can go all day). Having to carry additional power is a pain.
2. Focusing on a bright day I use a cokin filter holder and some ND filters. The beauty is the ability to slide them in and out. I also have screw on variable ND filter, but it's not as flexible/quick to setup as the Cokin set.
3. The back get's hot and you get a lot more noise. It cools down in seconds, but still an added delay. Right now it's pretty cool where I am, when we hit summer again, that's when I think I'll need the GG to do everything to avoid the heat.
4. In the studio it works really well, but it is still not as nice as working on the laptop screen. I may consider getting my laptop into the field rather than buying a GG.
5. It's very slow and when adjusting for movements on the techno, it can take some time, however that is offset by being extremely accurate.

I'm just processing a image of some orchids I shot yesterday using these tools. Will post it shortly and explain how it came together using liveview
 


Ok, so I played around with these orchids for a couple of hours. I've got another stack which I did. The great thing about the stack using liveview was that I could see exactly where the focus was going and so I worked out the increment I needed to turn the focus for each frame of the stack.

For this image once I finally found a composition I liked, you can see the two flowers on the right are in focus. Here's what I did (in about 3 or 4 iterations):
1. Zoom in and focus on the front flower
2. Zoom in to the rear flower and focus using front swing
3. Zoom out and into the front flower again back to step 1

So it takes a little messing around and of course this shifted the comp slightly so I shifted it all back into a balanced set up.

This is the drawback and this is what I miss about the GG is composing, not actually focusing as I think I'll always do a final tweak with liveview. But the ability to roam around the scene gives a lot of pressure in liveview, as it will stop after a certain time, it's slow to update in dark environments, it consumes power and the back gets hot. None of these are show stoppers, when but you're exploring the composition I think it adds unnecessary pressure on you and 'feels' uncomfortable.

Hope that helps anyone considering this.

Paul
 

etrump

Well-known member
I use a tech camera for more than 99% of what I do. Actually have not touched the DF for over two years. I avoided live view for quite a while thinking it was not worth the trouble but now I use it on most every shot. Composition is a breeze with live view and the cube. Focus is also a snap in almost any scenario except obvious use of infinity focus.

Between live view, focus mask and the user interface I find it hard to imagine my craft without it. Add the color, dynamic range and quality of files and I start sounding like a fanatic.
 

aeaemd

Member
I agree with Ed. It is most useful if you are planning to use tilt or swing. I use it in night shots with the techno as well (zooming in for focus).

Amr
 

Landscapelover

Senior Subscriber Member
Using a tech cam does change things. On the RZ I don't think I've ever tried using live view (I don't even know how so I guess that's true), however on a tech cam I use it all the time, to the point that I don't actually have a GG for my Techno (although I do think I'll get one due to a drawback I'll mention below).

1. It works really well as I find I can get to a level of detail that my eyes simply cannot on a GG. I use an external powered firewire hub in the field to save battery (I can go all day). Having to carry additional power is a pain.
2. Focusing on a bright day I use a cokin filter holder and some ND filters. The beauty is the ability to slide them in and out. I also have screw on variable ND filter, but it's not as flexible/quick to setup as the Cokin set.
3. The back get's hot and you get a lot more noise. It cools down in seconds, but still an added delay. Right now it's pretty cool where I am, when we hit summer again, that's when I think I'll need the GG to do everything to avoid the heat.
4. In the studio it works really well, but it is still not as nice as working on the laptop screen. I may consider getting my laptop into the field rather than buying a GG.
5. It's very slow and when adjusting for movements on the techno, it can take some time, however that is offset by being extremely accurate.

I'm just processing a image of some orchids I shot yesterday using these tools. Will post it shortly and explain how it came together using liveview

Hi Paul,

Regarding what you said "...external powered firewire hub".
May I ask what additional power supply do you use?

Thanks,
Pramote
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Agreed it is a very valuable tool for the tech cam with tilts and multiple sub-infinity subjects. One other point -- if you are shooting in dim light, like early PM or later PM or under cover of forest or trees or abandoned buildings as we often do for landscapes, you do not need the ND filter. In many daytime situations stopping down to f22 is often adequate. Bright sunlit sea or land or cityscapes, you'll want the ND filter, I reco a 6 or 7 stop IR cut ND.
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
I honestly had not tried LV until this morning. Now that I have once again I see what Phase did to make this a great back for tech cam use, in particular t/s lens.

There's a control button which sets the refresh rate and brightness - I'm interested in hearing what folks like Ed who shoots outdoors set these for. I've got a filter which works well just want to see what others have learned along the way for the settings.

Don
 

geesbert

New member
As soon as you're not alone with your camera, i.e. a commercial shoot with clients and agency, stylists and assistants, having a decent live view is godsend.

Oh how I wish for 5dmk3 like live view on a digital back....
 
Thanks very much Paul! I will check into it. How long does the battery last for the IQ back?
Pramote
Pramote, it's really hard to say as the usage is so different to an SLR. Basically I've used the back for a few hours of extensive live view, doing some macro work and the pack perhaps moved 1 bar (or perhaps was already on the way to move 1 bar before I started). It's a lot of power!

Some notes though, these are important ...
1. I have a special wakeup cable (e.g. Alpa sell one) so I use normal mode. I found in zero-latency mode the back gets very hot in HK weather.
2. With the dodgy old firewire cable I use, I keep a standard battery in the back and set the back to slow charge mode (exactly as I do with when tethered to a laptop). Basically the onboard battery remains fully charged at all times, but makes it a lot more stable.

Warm regards from HK, Paul
 

scatesmd

Workshop Member
I woud be interested in the most efficient workflow using live view and the focus mask for tech cams.

How are you all incorporating this into the flow in such a way as to speed up focusing of tech cams in particular?

Thanks, Steve
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
I agree with Steve - I'm sure that there's an efficient workflow for using live view for focusing but I've yet to find it. Composition - sure. Focus in the field - not so much.

I tend to compose with LV if needed and then shoot / review using the focus mask feature. That's pretty easy and efficient but I'd love to work through a better process using a tilt/swing lens in the field using LV directly. I just don't find the quality of the image clear enough even using a loupe when I do it. Too much image noise interferes with my own personal ability to get the best out of this process. Maybe I'm expecting too much or just not getting the knack but I don't find it very efficient in real life out in the field yet (after 18months in fact).
 

Steve C

Member
I think we all want live view to work better in the field than it does. My workflow evolves constantly, but here is how I do it currently for landscape photos. I rough compose, select lens using Viewfinder Pro on an iPad mini. I set up the camera and tune the composition using a Cube and LV with slider settings for max quality and mid brightness at iso 50. For focus, I zoom to 50% and view the IQ180 screen with prescription close up glasses under a dark cloth when necessary. I find that two eyes with medium magnification gives me the best judgement of focus although there are still surprises when viewing on a laptop or monitor at home. Generally, when light levels are low, I try to focus at f5.6. For brighter light, I use a 4" hood mounted Lee polarizer that can be removed quickly. When using tilt, I focus first on the mid-ground, then tilt and tweak understanding that my Alpa is not an axis tilt. I check foreground and background using LV at 50% to see if it is close, take a test shot and examine it closely to decide if good enough. Then I stop down to the working aperture, usually f11-13 and take the final photo. I don't use focus mask much as it is dependent on qualities other than sharpness and is often misleading. It is useful for tilts to give a subjective idea of where the focus plane is. The whole process is pretty time consuming, but usually the result is worth it. I'm all in favor of an improved LV feature and interested to learn other's techniques for dealing with what we have.
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
Granted I haven't had my IQ for as long as others have and granted I just began looking at using live view yesterday however I think I see where Graham is going in his post.

I can see where live view will be a great benefit using the tilt/shift however I really don't see it for focusing try as I may. So, using it as a composition tool should be good. My main question is the settings folks are using. So, what's some best practices you've learned; slow refresh (better image) or faster (poorer image) or can you really tell the difference.

I've got a new filter coming later this week (3 stop) and will actually get to kick the tires some more before heading to Carmel.


Don
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Like Don, I'd love to hear of any tips regarding the best settings. Maybe there's a combination that works best that folks can recommend as I'm totally open to the concept of operator error (ie me).
 
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