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Thread: fat pixel digital backs

  1. #101
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Max -- great shot!

    I did see your post about the loupe modification and have been meaning to do the same. The AE finder with mamiya magnifier just doesn't add much (if any) to the RZ's built in WLF magnifier.

    Where did you source your loupe and intenscreen?

    And have you seen THIS?

  2. #102
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Quote Originally Posted by cgthanos View Post
    Max -- great shot!

    I did see your post about the loupe modification and have been meaning to do the same. The AE finder with mamiya magnifier just doesn't add much (if any) to the RZ's built in WLF magnifier.

    Where did you source your loupe and intenscreen?

    And have you seen THIS?
    Eddie Adams used to shoot with an RZ and a AE chimney finder.

  3. #103
    Senior Member MaxKißler's Avatar
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Quote Originally Posted by cgthanos View Post
    Max -- great shot!

    I did see your post about the loupe modification and have been meaning to do the same. The AE finder with mamiya magnifier just doesn't add much (if any) to the RZ's built in WLF magnifier.

    Where did you source your loupe and intenscreen?

    And have you seen THIS?
    Thanks. Yeah, I've seen these AE chimney finders before and prices are always pretty steep considering the fact that you don't gain much exept for metering and the AE feature of course. Magnification is exactly the same and so is with the 3x-5x dual magnifying hood for the RB67 I once had (these are pretty rare aswell but fit the RZ perfectly).
    Kaiser: Loupe 4x Plastic for 6x6 (Loupes and slide viewers) - fotoimpex.de analogue photography
    This is the loupe I'm using. They're pretty cheap, exhibit pincushion distortion towards the edges and are very prone to flare... But they work.

    Here is another quick snap of my RZ. I got myself another loupe because the metal plate holding the beattie screen is slightly thinner than the original Mamiya screen so I had to modify another one. And I managed to use black tape, which means it finally looks like a camera again.

  4. #104
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    I briefly owned a P25+ on an H1 last year and it was terrific. I ended up switching to an H3D 22 (same sensor) and again, I love it. For the type of work I purchased them for, I couldn't be happier.

    Here's one I just came across from last October testing some Bron equipment before shooting for Hasselblad at Shoot NYC.

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  5. #105
    Senior Member bensonga's Avatar
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxKißler View Post
    Here is another quick snap of my RZ. I got myself another loupe because the metal plate holding the beattie screen is slightly thinner than the original Mamiya screen so I had to modify another one. And I managed to use black tape, which means it finally looks like a camera again.
    That is a very well used looking camera....producing amazing results.

    Gary

  6. #106
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Does a p65+ in sensor plus binning mode count as a fat pixel digital back ?
    (It takes four small pixels and try's to make a fat one. So its trying to pretend to be a fat pixel digital back )

    Anyone any experience with the difference in look between a fat pixel digital back and the p65+ in sensor plus mode ?

    Neil
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    Senior Member bensonga's Avatar
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    I wouldn't be surprised if the P65+ images in "sensor plus mode" looked very good, but I think we have to draw the line re "fat pixel" backs here....it's either a real 9 micron (fat pixel) sensor or it's not. There are plenty of other threads for the big guys to play in....this one is for the little fat guys who all too often, get no respect.
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  8. #108
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    I was just in the studio a few days ago watching the kid play with our view camera with the P25+. It reminded me of one thing I never had to do with the files--apply an unsharp mask.

    So, remind me again why having tons of pixels is important?
    Last edited by Shashin; 17th March 2013 at 16:44.

  9. #109
    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    What's unsharp mask?
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    "[T]he little fat guys who all too often, get no respect?"

    Oh yeah? Have you tried to buy a P25+ lately?

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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if the P65+ images in "sensor plus mode" looked very good, but I think we have to draw the line re "fat pixel" backs here....it's either a real 9 micron (fat pixel) sensor or it's not. There are plenty of other threads for the big guys to play in....this one is for the little fat guys who all too often, get no respect.
    It would be very interesting to see the response if someone starts the thread for "MF more than 22 mp". It certainly will not be me
    I am for one who have never considered anyone to be a "big" or "small guys" by mp.
    Danlindberg 's never got a respect?
    I just don't get it!
    Last edited by Landscapelover; 17th March 2013 at 17:38.

  12. #112
    Senior Member bensonga's Avatar
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post
    ...who all too often, get no respect.
    It was said somewhat in jest folks (hence the "wink" icon).

    Obviously, many folks here still appreciate the quality of these fat pixel backs. But as we all know, there is a race to the top re more and more megapixels and it's those 40, 60 and 80 megapixel backs that get most of the press and attention these days.

    Gary
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  13. #113
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post
    It was said somewhat in jest folks (hence the "wink" icon).

    Obviously, many folks here still appreciate the quality of these fat pixel backs. But as we all know, there is a race to the top re more and more megapixels and it's those 40, 60 and 80 megapixel backs that get most of the press and attention these days.

    Gary
    Well said Gary. Also the images you'll see from these fat pixel backs also are a great reminder that megapixels don't really matter for most prints (ahem ... can you say D800? ) but colour really does.

    Now I do have my big gun but I also really really like the images from my pea shooter (I jest) and as noted above, what's unsharp mask? Pre-sharpening? Hey, shooting at f/16 and above without concerns, longer exposure capabilities, etc etc etc.
    Ylem ...
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    I am glad to hear that there will be no Nikon vs Canon or those kind of things as they are bitter to read.
    This thread has a potential to be another long-term thread like "Fun with MF images" or "Tech camera Images" and I've really enjoyed it.
    Thanks,
    Pramote
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    Senior Member bensonga's Avatar
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Quote Originally Posted by Landscapelover View Post
    This thread has a potential to be another long-term thread like "Fun with MF images" or "Tech camera Images" and I've really enjoyed it.
    Thanks,
    Pramote
    I hope so!

    I think the key to making this a long-term thread is getting a steady stream of "fat pixel" images here.

    I will do my best to get out and shoot more often with my CFV-16II....and post the images here.

    Gary
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    I am glad you will take a lead (like Lloyd doing with the Nikon Images).
    I have no doubt this thread will rock!
    Pramote

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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Ok, too many messages without another fat pixel image. Here's one.

    Hasselblad CF22, 90mm Schneider Apo-Digitar f/11 with some tilt, Linhof Techno. Shot a lot @ f/11 before I realised I could shoot f/16 with no penalty.

    The clouded sky was indeed very deep blue this autumn late day with low red sun, and the digital back captured it well.
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  18. #118
    Senior Member malmac's Avatar
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Torger

    Even at this small size this image is very peaceful - I have no doubt at a larger size it would be more enjoyable still.

    Mal

  19. #119
    Subscriber Member jotloob's Avatar
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post
    It was said somewhat in jest folks (hence the "wink" icon).

    Obviously, many folks here still appreciate the quality of these fat pixel backs. But as we all know, there is a race to the top re more and more megapixels and it's those 40, 60 and 80 megapixel backs that get most of the press and attention these days.

    Gary
    Well said Gary .

    As I mentioned in an earlier post , I traded my CFV-16 in , but regret that already many times . Hope to get one again soon . I have two open options.

    What I would like to know from the interested shooters :
    What cameras and lenses do you use to shoot with your Fat Pixel Back
    and why do you like the (results) 9µ backs .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  20. #120
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Quote Originally Posted by malmac View Post
    Torger

    Even at this small size this image is very peaceful - I have no doubt at a larger size it would be more enjoyable still.

    Mal
    Thanks... uhm, yes I should post larger sizes, the image is coming from my dated private web gallery that generates image sizes that where good back in the days we had 1024x768 screens

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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Just took a look at this thread for the first time. I must say that when I was shooting the P25+ it had a special look with the bigger pixel size. Here are some photos we did in the past for 3 Michelin Star Restaurant L'Arpege.





    www.dossantoslemone.com
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  22. #122
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Malmac-

    If you click on the image it opens to a better viewing size. Personally, I like scaling them down with the option to click, it makes loading pages that are heavy with images quicker to view and read.

  23. #123
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Jmosier01-

    Jeff, you're one of the best portrait/lighting photographers i've seen. Very creative and artful. I'm grateful for the chance to have worked with you...

    It's okay that you've obviously cut and pasted my body on to some other dudes head


    Seriously, you think that guy could hit a gym once in a while..

  24. #124
    Subscriber Member jotloob's Avatar
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post
    I hope so!

    I think the key to making this a long-term thread is getting a steady stream of "fat pixel" images here.

    I will do my best to get out and shoot more often with my CFV-16II....and post the images here.

    Gary
    Thats what I hope too .

    And . . . . not to forget , there is a 5 star photographer here as a member , who surely can add tons of fantastic images shot with his LEAF APTUS II-5 . Dan Lindberg .

    The LEAF APTUS II-5 is a fat pixel back ? ? ?
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    I had the DM33/Aptus II7 and whilst not a 9um, it did have lovely colours, naturally from the back. I always thought it was just the profiles, but having re-processed some of those old files, they have a real natural quality to them that is there with the big guns but seems to require more work.

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    Senior Member bensonga's Avatar
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    I really love those images of the food DosSantos!

    Gary

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    Senior Member bensonga's Avatar
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Quote Originally Posted by jotloob View Post
    What I would like to know from the interested shooters :
    What cameras and lenses do you use to shoot with your Fat Pixel Back
    and why do you like the (results) 9µ backs .
    I hate to admit how few images I have actually taken with my CFV-16II and I've only used 3 lenses on it: 40mm CFE IF, 100mm CFi and 120mm Makro CFi.

    All three seem to work very well with the CFV-16, but I think my favorite (again, based on limited experience) is the 100mm f3.5 lens. But then again, I simply love that lens on film too.

    Gary

  28. #128
    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Quote Originally Posted by jotloob View Post
    Thats what I hope too .

    And . . . . not to forget , there is a 5 star photographer here as a member , who surely can add tons of fantastic images shot with his LEAF APTUS II-5 . Dan Lindberg .

    The LEAF APTUS II-5 is a fat pixel back ? ? ?

    You are too kind my friend!
    Alpa FPS • MAX • TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 • Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com Follow me on ›› Facebook

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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Is cfv39 considered a fat pixel back? probably mid pixel? I have an opportunity to get into a CFV 16 at 4k and CFV39 at 6k. equal conditions. Which one should I go for? This is for leisure. I use a P65+ for work

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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    So is the consensus that these 9micron backs ~22mp are great at base ISO which is likely 50 or 100 and then really not so good at 400?

    My application is location portraiture and sometimes you need ISO 400 to drag the background up even though you are lighting the portrait with strobe, you need the fill level.

    For example a likely exposure is f8 1/15 at 400ISO- just enough drag to keep the background lively.

    I will also just shoot ambient at 100Iso, say 1/2second on tripod.

    Are these likely to be fails on a fatback?

    Should I be saving my scant pennies for a back that can do decent 400? If so what is likely to be south of 10k? considering i like wides too- I know, make it impossible.

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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Quote Originally Posted by robertwright View Post
    So is the consensus that these 9micron backs ~22mp are great at base ISO which is likely 50 or 100 and then really not so good at 400?

    My application is location portraiture and sometimes you need ISO 400 to drag the background up even though you are lighting the portrait with strobe, you need the fill level.

    For example a likely exposure is f8 1/15 at 400ISO- just enough drag to keep the background lively.

    I will also just shoot ambient at 100Iso, say 1/2second on tripod.

    Are these likely to be fails on a fatback?

    Should I be saving my scant pennies for a back that can do decent 400? If so what is likely to be south of 10k? considering i like wides too- I know, make it impossible.
    A P25+ at ISO400 has a moderate amount of grain, but processed in Capture One v7 it can be, in my opinion, beautiful. It could be had for significantly less than 10k (back only) and probably under 10k in a kit that would suit the needs you describe.

    Asking for other people's opinions on what will be "usable" in an ISO range is to some extent a fool's errand as everyone has very different definitions of "usable" and different aesthetics.

    I'd get in touch with a local dealer and ask for some raw files, or better yet, to shoot your own (in the situations that are typical for you) and process them yourself and see what works for you and what doesn't.

    But yes, in general, the fat-pixel backs were earlier generation models. And in general those earlier models did not do great at higher ISOs. Advances in raw processing (like Capture One v7) mean that someone who used the back most recently years ago will likely have an out-of-date opinion about what ISOs they could make work for them.

    Many of the backs on that list would have no problem with 1 sec at ISO100. Its the ISO400 question that would challenge many/most of those backs.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Like Doug says, it's best you test for yourself, but in my own opinion I find 400 ISO with my P25 (non +) to be no problem at all as long as you don't underexpose it. Even 800 ISO is usable in a pinch (reduced resolution though), especially converted to B&W.

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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    Many of the backs on that list would have no problem with 1 sec at ISO100. Its the ISO400 question that would challenge many/most of those backs.
    Doug, just out of interest, what if any problems would you anticipate for exposures of greater than 1 sec at base ISO?

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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    I was just in the studio a few days ago watching the kid play with our view camera with the P25+. It reminded me of one thing I never had to do with the files--apply an unsharp mask.

    So, remind me again why having tons of pixels is important?
    Careful with that name calling. im probably the youngest one here!

  35. #135
    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    I indeed have plenty of fat pixel back photographs. Nice to see a dedicated thread for this kind of back. I can help to post once in a while Leaf Aptus II 5 photographs. I have many not published. This was one of the first I did publish here with the Aptus



    It was actually handheld and underexposed two stops. Using the Alpa SWA & SK 35 XL without CF.
    Alpa FPS • MAX • TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 • Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com Follow me on ›› Facebook
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    Doug, just out of interest, what if any problems would you anticipate for exposures of greater than 1 sec at base ISO?
    The backs that don't handle long exposure well would produce excessive stuck/hot pixels and would have poor shadow color accuracy. Some of the "fat pixel" backs are only supported in raw processing software which was not meaningfully updated as newer/better algorithms were developed. This is one major advantage of a Phase (and most of the Leaf model) fat pixel back: they are supported in Capture One v7 which is a full 10 years newer than some of these digital backs and breath new life into them especially concerning mid-to-high ISO performance and long exposure exposure.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Doug, many thanks.

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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Afternoon!

    I love the results from my P25+ on the Alpa, shame I so rarely get to use it, it'll likely be up for sale as a complete kit soon rather than see it sit unused.

    Here are a couple of random shots of different styles.









    Cheers

    Mat

  39. #139
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Can I play too. P25+ phase body and 28mm lens





    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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  40. #140
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    I wish I still had this back to be honest with a tech cam be great to have this option today. I'm taking donations. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Thank You Very Much Gary

    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post
    I really love those images of the food DosSantos!

    Gary

  42. #142
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    When looking back at the older pictures taken with a P25+, and thinking about all these conversations regarding 35mm DSLR's. I realize that I would take a P25+ and an Alpa anyday over a 35mm DSLR, even if the DSLR had 60 megapixels (I'm sure we will be having this conversation here within the next year or so). The look created by medium format cannot be beat (in my opinion) no matter what the megapixels.

    Two more photos from a while ago for old time sake:
    P25+
    H1
    HTS 1.5
    100 f2.2 HC
    26mm macro adapter




    www.dossantoslemone.com
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    love your cars!
    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    Afternoon!

    I love the results from my P25+ on the Alpa, shame I so rarely get to use it, it'll likely be up for sale as a complete kit soon rather than see it sit unused.

    Here are a couple of random shots of different styles.









    Cheers

    Mat

  44. #144
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Ha, my car is parked just to the right, slightly out of shot! I took some images for the guy who looks after my car for his website, he has some amazing cars stored. Mine unfortunately isn't quite in the same league.

    Something to aspire to for sure!

    Mat

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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Here's another couple..





    And mine, not so exotic but still a beast!



    Mat
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  46. #146
    Senior Member MaxKißler's Avatar
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    I think this is a perfect example of how good raw developers have come these days. This structure created heavy moire but was removed without me even having to click a button.




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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Max, which raw developer do you use for your Aptus 22 shots?

  48. #148
    Senior Member MaxKißler's Avatar
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Quote Originally Posted by micek View Post
    Max, which raw developer do you use for your Aptus 22 shots?
    I'm using Lightroom 4.3

  49. #149
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Thanks.

  50. #150
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    Re: fat pixel digital backs

    Here´s one from a portrait series of artists standing in their own exhibition.
    Shot with a Leaf Valeo22wi on a Hasselblad SWC/M.

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