markymarkrb
New member
As much as I love photography, you made the right decision Guy.
The GetDPI Photography Forum
Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!
No love for the IQ280 ?
- Thread starter gazwas
- Start date
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Thanks.
Now what if:
A iq260 user in 6 months all of a sudden want to go for 80 mp and offers an upgrade option for say 9000 cash plus iq180. That's 5000 less than the official cross grade. Would any iq 180 users go for it? Assuming the back is in like new condition. Just trying to find that theoretical sweet spot at where an iq180 user would be willing to upgrade
A iq260 user in 6 months all of a sudden want to go for 80 mp and offers an upgrade option for say 9000 cash plus iq180. That's 5000 less than the official cross grade. Would any iq 180 users go for it? Assuming the back is in like new condition. Just trying to find that theoretical sweet spot at where an iq180 user would be willing to upgrade
I love the 80MP. The more the merrier as far as I'm concerned
(I flat stitch, nodal stitch, and a combination of the two at times.)
For me, the upgrade price would have to be about 4k or less to get me to switch to the 280 from the 180. It is the worth of the wifi to me alone. I understand this may not be a reasonable number to phase, but i have to write the check and the functional difference is too small for the asking price now.I also didn't upgrade to the DF+ for 3-4 k and will wait for the next one I think.
That would probably nail it for me too.
At the end of the day, if someone gave me $13K on the proviso it could only be spent on gear, I'd buy more lenses.
This makes interesting reading.
So of all the IQ180 owners who, if the price was of no concern/cheap enough would cross grade to the IQ280 or prefer to go to the IQ260 and why?
The dealers are telling us the IQ260 will be by far the most popular back for up graders/new users. Current 180 owners are sitting tight due to poor value. Are we to expect a price shift to get the up grades going in the near future or is there a new CMOS chip around the corner and the 260 revenue is enough for Phase for now?
I think the new IQ2 is a great upgrade but I'm coming from a P+ back so I can understand some current IQ users had wished for more or better deals.
So of all the IQ180 owners who, if the price was of no concern/cheap enough would cross grade to the IQ280 or prefer to go to the IQ260 and why?
The dealers are telling us the IQ260 will be by far the most popular back for up graders/new users. Current 180 owners are sitting tight due to poor value. Are we to expect a price shift to get the up grades going in the near future or is there a new CMOS chip around the corner and the 260 revenue is enough for Phase for now?
I think the new IQ2 is a great upgrade but I'm coming from a P+ back so I can understand some current IQ users had wished for more or better deals.
I think the 60 megapixels 6 um is a nice sweet-spot, probably many P65+ users thought that too (plus tech cam users like the lower color cast issues), but upgrade policies was pointing towards IQ180. The upgrade policies is a sweet way for Phase to be able to steer the market in the direction they want.
I can't believe for one moment Phase One would release a new series of CCD backs if there was a new CMOS chip "around the corner".
The IQ180 to IQ280 would be a great upgrade if the price was "sensible". You only have to look at the offered trade-in value difference (circa $4.5K) between the IQ180 and P65+, to realise the manipulation that is going on here.
(In order to understand the comparison better, does anyone actually know what the list price of new and pre-owned IQ180's is now? We've been quoted them for the P65+ - now $25K new and $18K pre-owned, but for some reason Phase One, and their dealers, don't like being open about all price points.)
Every time I send an email about IQ series prices to any Phase One dealer, I get exact price list. I never had a problem with finding out the prices. You just have to ask them, it's some kind of Phase One policy not to list all of the prices on websites. Once you get used to it, it's not annoying anymore.
I don't think the original prices quoted on this site are correct and Phase has increased the upgrade cost considerably.
As your example, the difference in trading up to an IQ280 from a P65+ and IQ180 is now aprox $10.5K.
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
The number of clients I've worked with that need (or even want/use) a full hour long exposure is vanishingly small.
However, an hour long exposure which is usable implies several minute long exposures which are exceptional.
Or put differently:
- with an IQ180/280 at 2 minutes @ ISO35 you are pushing the system to it's limit
- with an IQ260 at 2 minutes @ ISO140 you're just getting started using it's capacity
However, an hour long exposure which is usable implies several minute long exposures which are exceptional.
Or put differently:
- with an IQ180/280 at 2 minutes @ ISO35 you are pushing the system to it's limit
- with an IQ260 at 2 minutes @ ISO140 you're just getting started using it's capacity
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
This, and several other reasons, are why you see a hesitancy to post pricing in-thread.
Whether because of a typo (on our end or Phase's), a change mid-year to account for currency valuation changes, a promotion, or whatever, pricing can change. When people see a price on a thread they often (usually?) assume it's correct/current. Last week I had someone call the office regarding the "crazy price" of the P45+ only to find out he was looking at a thread from 2008 (things have changed a bit since then :ROTFL
.Pricing is not secretive or difficult to get. Give us a call or shoot us an email and we will give you pricing for absolutely anything you want. Usually instantly, otherwise within a few hours, with the only exception being right after major launches when it might take 24 hours because we are still getting clarification on the pricing for various trade-in, bundle, purchase option (all the headache stuff that makes me glad I'm in the tech side and not the sales side!).
Really?
So whereas this post here states that P65+>IQ280 is $17.5K, it's actually more like $23.5K?
No wonder dealers don't like quoting prices if they get them so spectacularly wrong. There has been no correction to that post, nor comment in the thread that it's so far out.
Poor show.
Just publish the full price list on the websites and be done with it. I fail to see how this deliberate obfuscation helps anyone.
Gerald, don't get me started on that one but yes, hopelessly wrong unless you ordered in the first 24 - 48 hours and lived in the USA.
Still steaming about it actually but water under the bridge now and can't do anything about it!
However, this thread is not about that sore subject and something I'm sure dealers want to avoid talking about at product launches.
kdphotography
Well-known member
I think Guy hit the nail on the head: IQ280 is aimed at new MFDB buyers (who would otherwise be purchasing the IQ180) and upgraders from the P series. I'm sitting this round out. But for every P series MFDB user, Dante is knocking at your door.
If you need/want the extra megapixels and ISO35, the IQ280 is the MFDB to get.
If you need/want long exposure capabilities, the IQ260 is the MFDB to get.
The cream on the cake is that the IQ260 is a new sensor, so presumably has smidge better DR (than the P65+ sensor) and gets you into IQ180/IQ280 territory. What's not to like?
The other thing to consider that is oft forgotten, is anyone that upgrades gets a new MFDB----with a new warranty. And that does have value.
For me, all those nice things about the IQ2 series are great---but not at the current price trade point, and most importantly, nothing that benefits me for my workflow or image making. (Yeah, that Acromatic would be nice though...but that's not included in this discussion)
And maybe I'm just lucky (check Guy's history with MFDBs too) but every Phase One MFDB I've owned has been rock solid (knock on wood!) with zero issues or need for warranty work. P30, P45+, P65+, IQ180.
ken
If you need/want the extra megapixels and ISO35, the IQ280 is the MFDB to get.
If you need/want long exposure capabilities, the IQ260 is the MFDB to get.
The cream on the cake is that the IQ260 is a new sensor, so presumably has smidge better DR (than the P65+ sensor) and gets you into IQ180/IQ280 territory. What's not to like?
The other thing to consider that is oft forgotten, is anyone that upgrades gets a new MFDB----with a new warranty. And that does have value.
For me, all those nice things about the IQ2 series are great---but not at the current price trade point, and most importantly, nothing that benefits me for my workflow or image making. (Yeah, that Acromatic would be nice though...but that's not included in this discussion
)And maybe I'm just lucky (check Guy's history with MFDBs too) but every Phase One MFDB I've owned has been rock solid (knock on wood!) with zero issues or need for warranty work. P30, P45+, P65+, IQ180.
ken
Chris Barrett
Member
I am jonesin for that back too... but then I'd spend all my free time shooting rocks and sand.(Yeah, that Acromatic would be nice though...but that's not included in this discussion
ken
The issue to me is residual value, the IQ160 just took a huge hit, the IQ180, not anywhere as much. As the owner of a IQ160 I am glad an option was made to get to a IQ260, it's still a leap, but over 5 years should balance out. For me the big question is how will this new chip on the 260 perform at base iso and up to 400. This is where I tend to be in the field. Can they get more room in the shadows past where the 160 will go now, which I feel is on average about 1 3/4's of a stop to 2.
When Phase One comes out with a CMOS back I agree it will be a game changer, but I don't think you will see it first at 80MP. If you follow the companies making chips which gets fewer each year (as far as MFD) not too many have chip fab design that reach MFD. The market seems to be Sony, Canon, Dalsa and the new addition of the Italian company that Nikon seems to be slated to move to. I am sure I missed a few, but these four companies seem to have the lion's share right now. Canon has patents for a chip in size of a MFD back, but I don't think it's ever been produced. I don't know of Dalsa has a CMOS fab line or not. I have not seen any Sony literature which has mentioned a CMOS chip of the size needed by MF.
Paul Caldwell
When Phase One comes out with a CMOS back I agree it will be a game changer, but I don't think you will see it first at 80MP. If you follow the companies making chips which gets fewer each year (as far as MFD) not too many have chip fab design that reach MFD. The market seems to be Sony, Canon, Dalsa and the new addition of the Italian company that Nikon seems to be slated to move to. I am sure I missed a few, but these four companies seem to have the lion's share right now. Canon has patents for a chip in size of a MFD back, but I don't think it's ever been produced. I don't know of Dalsa has a CMOS fab line or not. I have not seen any Sony literature which has mentioned a CMOS chip of the size needed by MF.
Paul Caldwell