+1. I would rent these lenses and try them out as a second option.
The GetDPI Photography Forum
Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!
Hasselblad to Pentax 645D
- Thread starter Stan Lawrence
- Start date
Nick Devlin
New member
Having used the 645D extensively, I cannot think why you'd want to switch to it for this kind of work. Yes, the 645D has superior ergonomics, but the shutter-vibrations are killer at slower shutter speeds and the slow flash-sync is a pain with outdoor flash.
For some applications I'd prefer the Pentax, but for yours the "H" strikes me as the best rig.
Cheers,
- N.
For some applications I'd prefer the Pentax, but for yours the "H" strikes me as the best rig.
Cheers,
- N.
I'll mention a few things....and oh, by the way, nice to see Nick here! 
As Tom mentioned, the Pentax 35mm 645 lens, in both the MF and Af versions (each a bit different than one another) as well as both versions of the 120mm macro are some of the best 645 lenses to use on the 645D.
With regards to sync speeds for flash, Guy has some very valid points...but a possible way around some of this is using one of the two manual focus leaf shutter lenses made by Pentax for the 645 system which would allow a much higher sync speed (1/500). They can be had for a song (ie: relatively cheap) and although optically good, I wouldn't put them on the top of their class.
As for shutter vibration of the 645D...as pointed out, the shutter/mirror box does sound like it has a lot of vibration but in actual use and testing, I came away quite impressed. There is always that zone between very very low shutter speeds and moderately high shutter speeds where (around 1/4 to 1/30) that may cause the most trouble with regards to vibration. even so I've experienced a lot worse.
Dave (D&A)
As Tom mentioned, the Pentax 35mm 645 lens, in both the MF and Af versions (each a bit different than one another) as well as both versions of the 120mm macro are some of the best 645 lenses to use on the 645D.
With regards to sync speeds for flash, Guy has some very valid points...but a possible way around some of this is using one of the two manual focus leaf shutter lenses made by Pentax for the 645 system which would allow a much higher sync speed (1/500). They can be had for a song (ie: relatively cheap) and although optically good, I wouldn't put them on the top of their class.
As for shutter vibration of the 645D...as pointed out, the shutter/mirror box does sound like it has a lot of vibration but in actual use and testing, I came away quite impressed. There is always that zone between very very low shutter speeds and moderately high shutter speeds where (around 1/4 to 1/30) that may cause the most trouble with regards to vibration. even so I've experienced a lot worse.
Dave (D&A)
Yeah, I hope you meant to say ... "Blow Away" :ROTFL:Just wait for new phase one body that will blow everything
-Marc
No I haven't used one on a job ... but I have handled one.
Yes, the H4D body is heavier by 2 lbs ... which I wouldn't classify as "significant". A D800 is what I'd call significantly lighter. The S2 is also lighter by 2 lbs, but because of it's 35mm like form factor is easier to transport than a typical 645. My question is, what is the 645D systems weight with comparable lenses?
Viewfinder brightness comparisons have to be done using the same max aperture lenses, and I didn't notice anywhere near "night and day" difference in brightness between a H4 and the 645D (but unlike my S2/H4D viewfinder comparison where everyone though the S finder was brighter than anything else and wasn't, I wasn't doing a side-by-side/same max aperture in fixed light ... were you?).
As to viewfinder information, I'm curious what info the Pentax provides that the H4D doesn't?
I also use a waist level finder on the H4D, and the modular finder of the H makes it easy to break down the camera for travel packing ... like I used to do with my Contax 645.
I'll never buy that a focal plane shutter is as vibration dampened as leaf shutter, including my Leica S2P ... my question as to using a Pentax leaf shutter lens on the 645D is whether the focal plane shutter is disabled. It is not on the Leica S2, so the advantage of less vibration from a leaf shutter lens is negated.
Don't get me wrong, for certain applications the Pentax 645D is a very attractive kit at a more realistic price point.
For location work, travel or things like weddings, I'm a huge advocate of dual memory card capture and to a bit lesser extent weather sealing ... which is why I like my S2 for that stuff. Are the Pentax lenses weather sealed like the S lenses?
Economics may be a red herring to you, but all these MFD cameras lose value at a jaw dropping rate, depending on when you bought one. The H5D is now shipping. So, a new $19,995 H4D/40 is promo priced right now at $12,995 less any dealer discount ... so what do you think a used one will sell for? What is a Pentax 645D worth after you use it? Those are the collective losses one has to consider.
-Marc
Shashin
Well-known member
Not really trying to get into camera wars here. I do think if the body is almost twice as heavy, that is significant. The Hasselblad body and lenses I handled, and like you with the 645D, I have only handled one casually, seemed to be very heavy--Hasselblad is using stainless steel barrels? Pentax lenses are lighter. In the studio, maybe not such a big deal. Carrying them in the field, the weight is really different.
Maybe the brightness impression comes from size? The H viewfinder did seem small to me--I had this immediately and did not need to compare.
Veiwfinder information in the 645D are shutter speed, aperture, exposure comp, flash, flash comp, AF lock, AE lock, electronic level, metering mode, ISO, file format of each card slot.
Pentax has a right-angle finder so the camera can be used in all kind of positions--it rotates so the viewfinder can be seen no matter what position you put the camera. I have had modular cameras as well. I find keeping the camera together makes for the smallest package for transport.
I never said a focal plane shutter has less vibration. But the Hasselbled still has a mirror and I was talking about mirror dampening, which is excellent in the 645D. The mirror adds more motion to the system than the shutter.
All the new Pentax lenses are weather sealed. The 645D also has dual card slots, which I also really like--it is like having backup in the field.
Sure products lose value. But you should have a business model that takes care of the depreciation and allows you to replace the equipment at the end of its life cycle. Running your business based on some idea that X number of years down the road you are going to be able to predict you can get $X for your equipment is really not very good--a D800 could come out and then MFD would die.
I do not purchase equipment for a known ROI. I predict I will use it and the equipment will produce work to pay for itself. What I make on a sale is essentially a bonus and lowers my costs. I buy and expect to use my equipment--hell, it might not even survive.
Stan Lawrence
New member
As Sashin alluded to, my business depreciates the equipment over time, so resale isn't really an issue. If I sell the H gear, it would be to move something I wasn't using.
No camera war intended. Just full information.
Not sure how viewfinder brightness and relative magnification compares without a side-by-side since memory impressions are usually faulty ... just like the impressions people had of the S2 finder being brighter than a H4D ... which is was not ... it was in fact dimmer and less neutral in color temp.
Mirror slap effect in the HD camera is controlled by the user, via a choice of mirror delays measured in ms ... it is extremely effective. Your casual encounter probably would not have revealed that feature.
The viewfinder info in the HD/4-5 includes everything you attribute to the 645D ... plus focus mode, focus indication arrows, and an icon when True Focus is engaged. Not all separate indicators are in the viewfinder all at once, but when activated by the user button ergonomics that allow activation without taking your eye from the finder.
The economic comment was based on making a move now from a H4D to the Pentax (both older technology in terms of cycle, with the unknown being how long the OP has had the H4D: warranty, and how many shots it has) ... which is at best a lateral break even proposition, but more likely a loss. However, I guess that if the OP doesn't care, why should I?
I have already said that dual cards is a plus, as is weather sealing for the OPs applications.
Best of luck which ever way he goes.
-Marc
Are you sure?
From the Hasselblad website for the H4D-40: Weight 2290 g (Complete camera w. HC80 mm lens, Li-Ion battery and CF card)
From the Pentax website: Weight ready and loaded 52.2oz = 1479g
To me that sounds about the same if you add a lens to the Pentax 645D...
Shashin
Well-known member
Well, then I am mistaken. The Hasselblad I handled felt really heavy and the owner thought the 645d was much lighter. Apparently, we were both wrong. The Pentax 55mm lens is 416g. I guess it was that extra pound on the H that deceived us. Weight is an important criteria for me as I carry my gear all day and over all kinds of terrain. I guess that extra pound made a huge impression in my mind.
The standard 80mm is the lightest lens though.
Any other lens will be heavier and in the case of the zoom lenses significantly heavier.
Probably on average the 645D kit is indeed about 2 pounds lighter, one for the body and one for the lens. With the 80mm or 100mm lenses the difference will be smaller.
Any other lens will be heavier and in the case of the zoom lenses significantly heavier.
Probably on average the 645D kit is indeed about 2 pounds lighter, one for the body and one for the lens. With the 80mm or 100mm lenses the difference will be smaller.
B&H lists the weight of the H4D4 40 at 2290g and the weight of the body and the 80mm as 2290g - clearly some confusion. Anyway, to make this somewhat quantitative despite the uncertainty in the H:
Pentax 645D + FA 75mm f2.8 = 1480g + 215g = 1705g = 3.75 lb.
Hasselblad H4D 40 + 80mm f2.8 = 2290g =5.04 lb. (if the 475g of the 80mm needs to be added in 2765g, 6.1 lb.)
So even at the lesser weight, the Hasselblad is 34% heavier, although I can't imagine that as a deciding factor unless you're backpacking.
Pentax 645D + FA 75mm f2.8 = 1480g + 215g = 1705g = 3.75 lb.
Hasselblad H4D 40 + 80mm f2.8 = 2290g =5.04 lb. (if the 475g of the 80mm needs to be added in 2765g, 6.1 lb.)
So even at the lesser weight, the Hasselblad is 34% heavier, although I can't imagine that as a deciding factor unless you're backpacking.
Stan Lawrence
New member
My weight comparison is the H body and 35-90 lens, which is a beast. It is lighter with the 150. The Pentax with the 90 did feel lighter.
I'd like to thank everyone here for their info and opinions, it was the info here that helped me decide about a year and a half ago to invest the H system. Thanks.
I'd like to thank everyone here for their info and opinions, it was the info here that helped me decide about a year and a half ago to invest the H system. Thanks.
KeithL
Well-known member
You got it right first time then
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Well that's good to hear and pretty much the standard answer and correct one is pick one that's fits your needs, regardless of name tag they all produce outstanding quality in the process. The trick is figuring out the process your most comfortable with. Money really is secondary especially for working Pros because we HAVE to produce clients needs first so whatever that takes we have to figure that out as the priority. He'll if I had life my way I would be shooting a Leica M and a tech cam. Business dictates something completely different gear. Somedays I hate that I really don't have much choice.
David Schneider
New member
Stan,
I think the idea of renting the HC100 is a good one, especially since you listed weight and focusing speed as two concerns. It's a great family group lens. It weighs a bit more than the 80mm, but less than the 150. It's a world class all around lens.
I think the idea of renting the HC100 is a good one, especially since you listed weight and focusing speed as two concerns. It's a great family group lens. It weighs a bit more than the 80mm, but less than the 150. It's a world class all around lens.
Stan Lawrence
New member
Gentlemen, I'm getting a lot of pms and emails from folks wanting to sell me equipment. I don't buy used gear, at any time, thanks.