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Leaf shutter vs focal plane shutter

gerald.d

Well-known member
Just received my 210mm Schneider that I'm very much looking forward to getting out and using.

Unfortunately, there's been a bit of a sandstorm here today, so not much point in going outside. I decided therefore to do a bit of testing indoors.

Thought this might be of interest...

ISO100, f/11, 1/8th (100% crops):





ALPA FPS used for both shots. In the first, the shutter on the FPS was kept open, and I used the shutter in the lens. In the second, the shutter in the lens was kept open, and I used the FPS's shutter.

Regards,

Gerald.
 
Makes me even more interested in trying an FPS! Thanks for sharing. There is a great difference in sharpness between the two.
I am assuming these photos are not handheld?
 

gerald.d

Well-known member
Doug - I didn't try either of those. I'll maybe look to do some more testing in the coming days.

shortpballer - Nope, not handheld. I wouldn't even try!

(I may not be getting the best out of the leaf shutter since I wasn't using a cable release.)
 
Cable release does seem to make a difference, due to the fact that you are otherwise pushing on the lens itself with the brass shutter release attached to the lens. Thus moving the entire camera setup slightly from push to release.


Doug - I didn't try either of those. I'll maybe look to do some more testing in the coming days.

shortpballer - Nope, not handheld. I wouldn't even try!

(I may not be getting the best out of the leaf shutter since I wasn't using a cable release.)
 

gerald.d

Well-known member
Cable release does seem to make a difference, due to the fact that you are otherwise pushing on the lens itself with the brass shutter release attached to the lens. Thus moving the entire camera setup slightly from push to release.
Yup - this would appear to be the case.

I haven't re-tested myself, but the chaps at ALPA got in contact to say they'd done the same test at 1/4, 1/8 and 1/15 and achieved identical results whether using the leaf shutter (with cable release) or focal plane shutter. Basically, tack sharp as long as you have the right technique!

The impressive thing to me out of this though is just how little (any??) vibration you get when using the FPS's shutter. Obviously there are significant benefits to be able to use its shutter for the kind of work I'm planning for the 210mm (basically, big panos).

I shot a 45 imgage (3 rows, 15 columns) pano late yesterday afternoon with this set-up being controlled by the Seitz VR Drive 2. The resulting 1.75 gigapixel pano is stunning.

Damn I love this gear :D

Regards,

Gerald.
 

danlindberg

Well-known member
I shot a 45 imgage (3 rows, 15 columns) pano

Gerald.
Tip of the day: Instead of bazillion shots with a telephoto lens, use a wideangle lens - shoot once and move on......:p

Kidding aside. I wonder if it will be possible in the future to buy Schneider & Rodenstock tech cam lenses WITHOUT the copal shutter? And maybe save money at purchase and future possible headaches with Copal service/repairs?
 

AreBee

Member
Gerald,

In the first, the shutter on the FPS was kept open, and I used the shutter in the lens. In the second, the shutter in the lens was kept open, and I used the FPS's shutter.
Aren't the results the opposite to what you would have expected? :confused: My understanding is that a leaf shutter will return less camera shake than a focal plane shutter, not more, at least in part because the former stops down and opens up symmetrically about the lens axis, compared to the latter which travels unsymmetrically from side to side.
 

gerald.d

Well-known member
Gerald,



Aren't the results the opposite to what you would have expected? :confused: My understanding is that a leaf shutter will return less camera shake than a focal plane shutter, not more, at least in part because the former stops down and opens up symmetrically about the lens axis, compared to the latter which travels unsymmetrically from side to side.
Well, that was I believe the generally accepted norm. Until the FPS came onto the scene.

Apparently the reason for the leaf shutter shot that I posted not being particularly sharp was because I used the shutter trigger on the lens, rather than using a cable, which is essential at these slow speeds.

ALPA's own test resulted identical sharpness, regardless of which shutter was used.

Whatever ALPA have done to damp vibrations from the shutter in the FPS, it's clearly worked.
 

vjbelle

Well-known member
Doug - I didn't try either of those. I'll maybe look to do some more testing in the coming days.

shortpballer - Nope, not handheld. I wouldn't even try!

(I may not be getting the best out of the leaf shutter since I wasn't using a cable release.)
I wouldn't even think of using my Digitar lenses without a cable release!! Even the cable release itself can make a difference..... I have resorted to very flexible and longer cables.

Victor
 

Stefan Steib

Active member
That is the same result I found on the HCam. We did a great effort to dampen the Mamiya 645 shutter with mounting it into a cut out rubber block first and then this is mounted to the about 6 to 8mm thick Aluminium profile that also has steps and stability walls cnc´d out of a full block of Aluminium.

more than that, we can do very long and very short times with such a system without having to touch the camera, a radio remote control can be used and you can even sync F1/F2 for flash effects on timings longer than 1/2 sec.

I would even go that far to say that some of the very good sharpness of many lenses used on the Hcam (also FPS) is due to the fact that there is a total lack of vibration coming from the camera at release.

Regards
Stefan
 
Yup - this would appear to be the case.

I haven't re-tested myself, but the chaps at ALPA got in contact to say they'd done the same test at 1/4, 1/8 and 1/15 and achieved identical results whether using the leaf shutter (with cable release) or focal plane shutter. Basically, tack sharp as long as you have the right technique!

The impressive thing to me out of this though is just how little (any??) vibration you get when using the FPS's shutter. Obviously there are significant benefits to be able to use its shutter for the kind of work I'm planning for the 210mm (basically, big panos).

I shot a 45 imgage (3 rows, 15 columns) pano late yesterday afternoon with this set-up being controlled by the Seitz VR Drive 2. The resulting 1.75 gigapixel pano is stunning.

Damn I love this gear :D

Regards,

Gerald.
Thanks a lot for sharing. What Alpa had done for the FPS shutter is awesome. Might seek a chance to try on it.

Philip
 
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