Technical Camera Tech Spec Summary

[Guy Mancuso]

Absolutely if something is wrong or missing than totally fill in the blanks. We members appreciate the folks that add data to these discussions. Hell I learned something, actually I learned a couple things on the Alpa's I did not know. Frankly these three systems are all very good. I shot the Arca, Cambo's I owned and been around several Alpa shooters as well on workshops to understand them . But many folks never held anyone of these in there hands as they are pretty rare and you just can't walk into B&H and handle one.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Guy it is big money in a tiny tiny market - I am guessing that the manufacturers themselves dont really have the time or manpower to be forum regulars.

Dealers? Well some people like them in forums and some don't. Most sales people are busy trying to sell. There aren't a lot of 'Dougs' paid and made available .



Just a guess.

Well your exactly correct and I agree but it still bugs me they are not here helping people.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I understand also people have issues with dealers on forums as sometimes the barrage never ends. We had it here at one time but we also need the data and really need to edit out some of it I agree. But on the same hand we may never hear of a Alpa system on the streets to begin with. Forums are great and also a hell hole sometimes. I think we all understand that and we also need to go back to that phrase I mentioned as well.

 

[cly]

I did.

Apologies, Doug, I missed that update. (Nevertheless, I still think that the stitching adapter of the Max is in a different category, that is, it's not an accessory like the Alpa Tilt-Adapter ... Both the Max and the XY should be listed with an unrestricted yes

Chris

 

[jlm]

I've been jumping in here feeling someone should address out the rather strenuous tone of gerald's responses, especially in light of Doug's polite responses

right off let me apologize for using the storm trooper term; way out of proportion.

perhaps crusader would be better?

in my opinion, a simple: "Doug: alpa can do a lot more using the entire system components" would have sufficed.
There was no need for Gerald's personally demeaning, insulting and incendiary remarks directed at Doug: "complete misunderstanding...clearly do not have sufficient understanding as to the capabilities of the Alpa system to get this table right from the outset... (presumably, this means that in discussing the merits of the cameras that you do sell, over the ones that you don't, you've been getting it wrong for a while). Disgraceful sales tactics. Deliberately misrepresenting the functionality of a system he doesn't sell, ridiculous assertion he misrepresents a product that he does not sell, Who knows. Perhaps Doug really is that rare breed of salesman who would actually be happy to lose a sale and recommend a competitor's product if he recognised that's what would be best for the customer? '

call a spade a spade; Gerald was way out of line an it pissed me off

 

[Dogs857]

No one needs to leave and discussion is good. But this is a friendly site and everyone likes it that way. So everyone lets watch the insults as it really has zero amount of value to the discussion at hand. Doug authored this piece which I have not read yet but it is his and we invite anyone to post about it. That's info we all need and want. Honestly I don't know enough about Alpa, Hassy, Leaf, Pentax and others as I would like too myself. I owned a TC at one time and loved it but like many systems its confusing but I do give them a lot of credit for having a website that has good data better than Arca which has none except Rods website. Cambo's to me is limited info. Alpa pulled there rep from the forums which was a stupid idea IMHO. But we have no Cambo rep here either. The only rep is Rod from Arca that posts. So frankly in my eyes these guys need to up there game so we understand these systems. I would like to see Pentax and more Hassy reps here. Leica as well.

I'm off topic but will get it of my chest since its frustrating as hell and I don't understand it. Forums like this are a very important part of the market and why the hell don't we have more of these folks helping people make smart buy decisions is beyond me. If I owned one of these OEMs I would have someone on the forums answering these 50 thousand dollar questions as this is big money and people need to feel good going in. Okay that's my rant but it really pisses me off.

Guy I am with you 100% on this one. As someone who is taking the plunge having as much information from those in the know makes the decisions a lot easier to sort through. I almost bought an Arca just to take the stress out of picking a body. But lack of dealer support made me think twice.

This is big money, it's not easy to change tack mid stride (Guy I believe you are an expert at this) and having easy access to information is what the internet is best used for.

Well that and porn.

 

[GrahamWelland]

Well that and porn.

Plenty of camera nerd porn here

 

[fmueller]

Guy it is big money in a tiny tiny market - I am guessing that the manufacturers themselves dont really have the time or manpower to be forum regulars.

Dealers? Well some people like them in forums and some don't. Most sales people are busy trying to sell. There aren't a lot of 'Dougs' paid and made available .



Just a guess.

Let me offer my perspective as a new entrant to the MF Digital arena and currently shopping my first tech cam. I am what they call an enthusiast, meaning, of course that my cash outlay is not a capital investment. I need information from both a dealer and from users. A dealer is trying to read my needs and they understand (or at least they should) that this is a discretionary purchase. I am a prime candidate for the secondary market and recently bought a refurbished MFDB that fit my H503CW.

So, now I'm fishing in the tech cam market and I have to separate the wheat from the chaff (mixed metaphors...sorry). The gearhead in me, after reading these forums says there is only one solution, an ALPA STC with Rodenstock lenses and HPF rings and a Leica Disto.... and you'll be sorry you ever bought anything else. The, umm, financially shellshocked part of me says, maybe I should dip my toes in with something a little more affordable and concentrate on displaying fine images instead of displaying my refined taste in equipment.

I've dealt with Digital Transitions and they've been very helpful and attentive and their rep, Lance Schad, seems to understand me as a customer and doesn't seem to mind I don't have 50 grand burning a hole in my pocket.

These guys as well as this forum have been very helpful.

Now its just up to me to produce the images.

 

[rupho]

I found the table informative and don't understand the issues.
We all read through the lines when it comes to making buying decisions based on information coming from people that are in the business of selling or being affiliated with it.,nothing wrong with that IMHO
I am based in Asia and I hope that I don't step on anybodys toes for saying that the majority of digital MF shooters would feel blessed to have Doug as well as all the other dealers/ reps and associated industry professionals at their disposal.

They represent a great source of knowledge , something I wish we had in this part of the world.
That's probably why you got folks from Asia , Australia and Europe reading and contributing on this very forum.
At least I have not found a forum apart from Lula where the global MF community enjoys this level of exchange.

Mind you I have no dealings with CI, have never met Doug and actually shoot Alpa. I don't see any harm done , rather the opposite.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Let me add coming from a tech cam owner. Prices are deceiving in many ways for example and don't hold me to absolute pricing but having bought the Cambo which the body is the cheapest outlay up front than lets say the Arca but here is the catch on that. Tilt and if you want Tilt features its standard on the Arca on the body and costs lets say 4500 dollars the Cambo body lets say 2800 dollars but now when tilt comes into play on the Cambo its a extra 1200 dollars per lens so you have three lenses with tilt that's a extra 3600 which makes it more expensive than the Arca with tilt built in and just three standard lenses. Than you add accessories on the Arca which are not cheap than your costs for that Cambo with tilt feature than these systems start to become the same costs. Alpa no different and maybe more. I don't know Alpa pricing as well so want to be careful here but there accessories are also not exactly cheap either.

In all this there is a lot of balancing acts you need to perform and what maybe good for some is not what you need. Now do you need three lenses with tilt for example. Do you need shift adapters do you need expensive viewfinders. Hell do you even need the Disto. I personally have been through this and maybe save in one area but pay more in others. It certainly is a do your damn homework project.

Also being rare items in all three systems like I mentioned earlier and being in your part of the globe that may play another role in the decision process. May e don't need a dealer next door but certainly one you can get product from and a,so support. Bottom line and you can do the math anyway you want but just body, lenses and accessories can easily put you in the 12 to 25 thousand dollar range and we have not got to the back yet.

Rough numbers folks so don't hold me to them just some common example of just talking the Tilt feature Arca has it on the body . Alpa is a accessory and Cambo on the lenses. All three take a different approach to just this one feature.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Btw we do have a very international crowd here and that's a amazing achievement to have such diversity here. Hats off to our members

 

[stephengilbert]

Not sure if it applies here, but Sayre's Law says that

"In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake." "That is why academic politics are so bitter." (Sayre's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

As a life-long gearhead, I don't know that I agree that the issues here are small ones, but still....

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I think and we do drive this home on the forum when we are at the big ticket items passion runs deep and the worst thing we can do is buy the wrong damn system. I have gotten those emails from members and my hearts sinks when someone spends 40k and he thinks he screwed up. It's not fun replying to them either because you feel so bad. All the more reason to have all the data and as a group we all need to help do that. We can't depend on one person to do that and maybe that comes down to this whole discussion, its not a singular person to provide it all, but as a whole .

 

[gazwas]

I think and we do drive this home on the forum when we are at the big ticket items passion runs deep and the worst thing we can do is buy the wrong damn system. I have gotten those emails from members and my hearts sinks when someone spends 40k and he thinks he screwed up. It's not fun replying to them either because you feel so bad. All the more reason to have all the data and as a group we all need to help do that. We can't depend on one person to do that and maybe that comes down to this whole discussion, its not a singular person to provide it all, but as a whole .

I've been told to "cut the crap", accused of being harsh, biased, and of using disgraceful tactics.

And now being told as a "storm trooper" to rest?

Guy, I feel it is wrong to try and silence a forum member because he has strong feelings towards the equipment they use. Gerald feels Doug is misrepresenting ALPA and is offering some clarity to Doug's post.

How anyone dare be rude enough to tell someone to "cut the crap" and accuse them of being a "storm trooper" goes against everything I thought this amazing forum stands for.

We have all seen the work Gerald produces and the boundaries he pushed with his equipment and a forum without his talent and view point on the equipment he uses is a wasted opportunity indeed. Not only does Gerald provide technical details of equipment he uses but shows amazing imagery produced with it.

I sincerely hope the moderators realise this and contact Gerald to resolve this in a gentlemanly way rather than see a very active and valuable member leave.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Lets be clear I never used any of those comments in any of my responses in this thread. The only concern towards anyone in this thread was let's not use insulting words that goes out to EVERYONE. This is a non insulting forum with a policy in place. That was my only direct response to anyone. Certainly ways to get a message across and I did not try to silence anyone from speaking out. Just do it without being insulting. Everyone is intitled to there opinion. Not one of those words was used in any of my posts. My only real comment is Doug's role has and never has been as from sales. He has always been from the support side as a digital technician, I know that personally that is the case.

There where several folks comments that I thought where insulting , no one was singled out in warning but everyone.

 

[stngoldberg]

I come to this site to learn and enjoy some darn good work that others produce. I have learned a lot from Doug's posts and have also learned from Gerald's posts. Gerald's use of the VR drive with a technical camera is revolutionary to me.
I would appreciate it if everyone cooled down and continued to teach here and people would post more of their work and fewer of their anxieties.
Stanley

 

[gazwas]

Lets be clear I never used any of those comments in any of my responses in this thread.

My comments were not directed towards you but the members who contacted Gerald my PM.

Lets hope things can return to pre this topic soon.......

 

[GrahamWelland]

Group hug time?

(Sorry, it's been a long travel day ...)

 

[dougpeterson]

Group hug time?

(Sorry, it's been a long travel day ...)

Your long travel day is ending just as mine is starting.

Up at 4am for 6am flight so I can be in the office at 9am.

And to think my grandma didn't leave her county until her 40s.

It will be an early night tonight!

 

[etrump]

This thread is like trying to have an intense discussion with your boss via email.