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Bck again… S2 or P45+?

RVB

Member
thank guys.. so My main photography will be portraits, I guess there is a huge difference between a 24x36 sensor (d800, 5D, whatever) and a S2 or P45+.. and the quality of the lenses Leica and Schneider will make another big difference! In my opinion.. I want quality and 1m wide prints.
DMF does very good skin tone's,the Dalsa sensor's of the hasselblad 60 or phase backs are probably a little better than the Kodak sensor's..imho bothe are better than nikon..
 

fotografz

Well-known member
All this is strictly personal preferences. It depends on what you may see, or not see in how each system renders light, details, etc., plus the functional aspects of operation, or whatever measure you personally use. It is hard to please a portrait subject or client, if you can't first please yourself.

I do what you do Bruno, mostly people photography, and a lot of portrait work with and without lighting. I've been a wedding and portrait photographer forever, but am now retiring from wedding work for the most part, and concentrating on portraits. A lot of wedding assignments also involve portrait work, especially Bridal portraits.

I simply do not like using a 35mm DSLR for this sort of photography if I can help it. I don't shoot portraits in bad light, so do not need very high ISO abilities. I don't like squinting through a tiny peep-hole finders, and much prefer big, lush focusing screens.

While I am sure cameras like the D800 or Canon 5D-III are terrific and have their devoted users producing great work, I simply do not like how Nikon or Canon glass renders, preferring the Hasselblad glass over that, and the Zeiss/Schneider lenses over that, and the Leica optics over all of them ... be they M, R or S. Plus, I like AF ability for more spontaneous portrait approaches ... so, adapting Leica R, or using Zeiss MF lenses on a Canon or Nikon is a no go for me ... been there, done that to death ... way to slow for moving subjects when doing spontaneous or environmental candid portraiture.

In general, I do like most any of the MFD systems for portrait work ... a lot. Big bright screens, better and better optics, ever improving ergonomics. Each one has their pluses and minuses, but as a whole the possibilities are wonderful.

My pal uses a Contax 645 and Phase back, another uses a H4D/50 to shoot all of his people work, I've used a Mamiya with a Leaf Aptus back and a bunch of Hasselbald H cameras all the way to a H4D/60 ... and now have centered on the S system which does everything I want and then some ... basically my dream kit come to life. It is fast as hell to operate, uses dual shutter for ambient work or with HSS lighting. It can take the S lenses, Hasselblad lenses, and now the Zeiss Contax 645 lenses ... all while retaining full functions including AF.

Today's Portrait photographer can span a hug range of approaches, however, one thing that tends to be a general commonality is use of post processing variations. It is here, in post, that more of the differences began revealing themselves IMHO. Personally, I've come to prefer optics that render using micro-contrast for acuity ... it seems to stand up to many of the Portrait type post programs available to the portrait photographer these days. I find it very apparent in the skin texture ... which is no small issue for this work.


In particular, the S-120/2.5 is a unique optic for portraits ... very fast for a 120 MF lens with gorgeous OOF rendering and that micro contrast that retains skin detail even when heavily manipulated by a modern portrait post program effects so popular with clients these days. While it may not show up in sub 1 meg compressed sRGB web jpegs, the large prints are stunning. Here are a few I just did for a wedding client last week that were very time constrained, including a candid AF shot (triptych below):

- Marc
 
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Bruno

Member
Damn it… thank You guys.. I've almost decided buy a Good DSLR and a 85 but seeing this.. Damn!! Leica S2 is each time closer..

My sister, will get marry in July so.. perfect to try one of this beauties before!
 

Shashin

Well-known member
I wonder if there is a bad MF 120mm macro? It seems like that is always one of the best lenses of every lens line--relative merits excluded.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I wonder if there is a bad MF 120mm macro? It seems like that is always one of the best lenses of every lens line--relative merits excluded.
I agree.

Prior to the S120/2.5, my fav was the Contax 645 120/4 ... and never could seem to get anything quite as beautiful in terms of tonal roll-off, bokeh and micro-contrast ... that the S version surpassed it was shocking to me ... maybe because of the faster max aperture? Darned bright viewfinder with this S version also.

- Marc
 

gazwas

Active member
I think the differences between MFD and 35mm are there but are currently very, very close IQ wise and sometimes we see what we want to see when evaluating the differences.

I personally wouldn't worry about IQ if looking at 35mm (D800?) with the best glass (Zeiss?) because it can produce stunning quality and lighting differences will pay a much bigger roll than a slightly larger sensor or astronomically priced Leica glass.

I do believe very much as Marc said, get the system you enjoy using the most and the whole process become more fluid an enjoyable (easier??). If all yo do after spending on a full 35mm system is long for a Leica that the 35mm system will have been a complete waste of money.

Buy based on the camera you want and can afford rather than the slight IQ (golden eyes) they produce IMO.
 

Landscapelover

Senior Subscriber Member
Hi Bruno,

I will not be too optimistic about MFD.
Your pictures will not be dramatically difference from ones taken with the Nikon D600, D800 or 5D Mark II, to name a few. To be honest, it is much easier to handle the 35mm DSLR than the MFD. The weight and cost are also issues.
Look from what you posted, make sure you really need it before jumping in, it's a money pit and hard to sell when you want to upgrade or change your mind. You can buy lots of glasses for 35mm-DSLR with that money and if you don't like them, you can sell them with insignificant losses.
If you have extra money, go for it!
Just want to share my (painful) experience with MFDs :)

Pramote
 

RVB

Member
Hi Bruno,

I will not be too optimistic about MFD.
Your pictures will not be dramatically difference from ones taken with the Nikon D600, D800 or 5D Mark II, to name a few. To be honest, it is much easier to handle the 35mm DSLR than the MFD. The weight and cost are also issues.
Look from what you posted, make sure you really need it before jumping in, it's a money pit and hard to sell when you want to upgrade or change your mind. You can buy lots of glasses for 35mm-DSLR with that money and if you don't like them, you can sell them with insignificant losses.
If you have extra money, go for it!
Just want to share my (painful) experience with MFDs :)

Pramote
Hi Pramote

One point worth mentioning here is that the Leics S handle's like a 35mm camera,regarding the financial aspect it would be best for most people to buy used where the real depreciation has already taken place.

best

Rob
 

RVB

Member
I Think the sensor size for example of the p65 or some Hassy will make the difference, isn't it? against Leica S system … in term of quality, dynamic range and DoF..

By the way, is Schneider as good as Leica?

Schneider-Kreuznach and Phase One - YouTube

Schneider-Kreuznach LS lens for Phase One 645DF camera body - YouTube

Working with leaf shutter lenses | Adrian Weinbrecht - YouTube
"By the way, is Schneider as good as Leica?" I think preferences play a significant role here,Lenses render differently and stamp their own character on the image,both the Leica and Schneider glass is very sharp,color and bokeh will be subjective.
 

Landscapelover

Senior Subscriber Member
Hi Pramote

One point worth mentioning here is that the Leics S handle's like a 35mm camera,regarding the financial aspect it would be best for most people to buy used where the real depreciation has already taken place.

best

Rob
Hi Rob,

Points taken! That's why I have one (S2) coming. However, even the S2, very long exposure is still impossible.
I've just wanted to give new members a warning. Buy MFD, only when you've had lots of extra cash as the cost will add up especially lenses.
MFD including the IQ180 I've currently owned is just for a pleasure, not for dramatic improvement in quality, compared to the D800E. The quality of pictures is mainly from your visionary, not equipment. Galen Rowell's pictures are not even sharp!
I've worked (my day time job) very hard all of my life (certainly with my wife's generosity) to be able to have MFDs. Buy it only when you're ready and don't forget your kids' college fund!

Regards,
Pramote
 

Bruno

Member
After think a lot.. I won't buy a Leica S2 with 70mm, too expensive for an amateur use and I've decided to try a Hassy, good idea for portraiture work and static motives?

How it hand with the skin tones? and natural light?

A friend of mine will lend me the camera with the 80HC all the time I need.

Thank You very much!
 
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Bruno

Member
I want to "rescue" this thread, because after a year I'm decided to buy a S2 and a 70mm!

I hope is the right choice!

Any tips and tricks? ;)

For me the 70mm is the standard lens to start and a good compromise between quality, aperture, and focal. I know there is an additional screen, is this split or just better?
 

Giorgio

Member
My advice, try to find a dealer who will let you demo the camera for a day or two.
Shoot it a lot process the images and decide if you like it?
Then...
Ask yourself what will I be able to do with the new camera that I cannot do with my existing gear?
 
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