Phase One's Investment Protection Program

[subrata1965]

Investment Protection Program for Phase One buyers

Phase One claims that Phase One digital back purchase is protected for 90% of original purchase price for 12 months. New purchases must be made within 6 months of the official new product announcement to qualify.

Original product purchase price is used to determine the new price and the original invoice will be used. The original product must be purchased new from an authorized Phase One partner. The iXA camera systems are not covered by the Phase One Investment Protection Program.

Isn't it too good to be true? Why then IQ160 to IQ260 upgrade price was quoted for $14,000 (offer from dealer only) when IQ260 was just announced? Phase One knows how to play the pricing game and didn't offer official upgrade from IQ160 to IQ260, but few dealers only.

 

[stephengilbert]

Are you saying that you bought an IQ back and that less than 12 months later Phase announced the new model and refused to honor their offer?

I think if that's so, a few more details might help explain what you're saying. I.e., "I paid $xx,xxx in October, 201x; Phase announced the new model on June, 201y; they quoted $14,000 for an upgrade when the program amount should have been $x,xxx."

Addendum: did you notice that the offer applies only to backs purchased after April 1, 2012? (See FAQ.)

 

[subrata1965]

Are you saying that you bought an IQ back and that less than 12 months later Phase announced the new model and refused to honor their offer?

I think if that's so, a few more details might help explain what you're saying. I.e., "I paid $xx,xxx in October, 201x; Phase announced the new model on June, 201y; they quoted $14,000 for an upgrade when the program amount should have been $x,xxx."

Addendum: did you notice that the offer applies only to backs purchased after April 1, 2012? (See FAQ.)

I had purchased my IQ160 in mid April, 2012.

For IQ260, pre orderring started in early March, 2013.

The quote for approx. $14K upgrade is individual dealer's program only.

Phase One didn't publish any official upgrade price for IQ160 to IQ1260, in other words they are not offering it.

 

[stephengilbert]

It sounds as if you should qualify.

 

[lance_schad]

Since it is 60MP to 60MP it is technically considered a "Side-Grade" , an upgrade would be to next model like an IQ160 to IQ180/IQ280.
The Investment Protection states "Upgrade", see here.

Also as Stephen mentioned it is based off of your Invoice Price, and any discounts received in terms of promos or cash value will reflected in the calculation.

There was no price increase between the IQ160/260 and IQ180/280, they introduced the IQ260/280 at existing price, and lowered the IQ160/IQ180 price.

There is an official "Side-Grade" for the following:
(As of March 8,2013 price correspondence from PhaseOne US, and running until 6/30/2013)

IQ160 to IQ280 $13,990 CL $15,990 VA
IQ180 to IQ280 $13,990 CL $15,990 VA

It is best you contact the reseller you have a relationship with or myself offline to discuss in detail. It can get confusing as some people have misunderstood because they purchased privately or have done it via an upgrade, etc....

Lance

 

[subrata1965]

Lance,

IQ260 is definitely a newer generation MFDB as compared to IQ160. Megapixel is only one part of the equation.

Also the word "Side-Grade" is more commonly used for switch to a competitor’s product.

So I personally consider it "upgrade", irrespective of Phase One's marketing propostion.

As Phase One said "Have you ever hesitated purchasing a product because you are worried that a new one will be introduced soon and make the product you are purchasing obsolete?" ......

This program enables our clients to utilize the latest technology with peace of mind that their equipment will retain its value and enable them to upgrade their systems at a fraction of the cost."

Now you already confirmed that price of IQ160 was lowered, so value of my IQ160 went down within less than 12 months due to the introduction of new technology. Phase One doesn't want to recognize that as an upgrade is a different ball game and for a reason. No confusion here.

 

[Steve Hendrix]

Since it is 60MP to 60MP it is technically considered a "Side-Grade" , an upgrade would be to next model like an IQ160 to IQ180/IQ280.
The Investment Protection states "Upgrade", see here.

Also as Stephen mentioned it is based off of your Invoice Price, and any discounts received in terms of promos or cash value will reflected in the calculation.

There was no price increase between the IQ160/260 and IQ180/280, they introduced the IQ260/280 at existing price, and lowered the IQ160/IQ180 price.

There is an official "Side-Grade" for the following:
(As of March 8,2013 price correspondence from PhaseOne US, and running until 6/30/2013)

IQ160 to IQ280 $13,990 CL $15,990 VA
IQ180 to IQ280 $13,990 CL $15,990 VA

It is best you contact the reseller you have a relationship with or myself offline to discuss in detail. It can get confusing as some people have misunderstood because they purchased privately or have done it via an upgrade, etc....

Lance

Why would someone who bought from another dealer need to contact you offline?


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

 

[Steve Hendrix]

Investment Protection Program for Phase One buyers

Phase One claims that Phase One digital back purchase is protected for 90% of original purchase price for 12 months. New purchases must be made within 6 months of the official new product announcement to qualify.

Original product purchase price is used to determine the new price and the original invoice will be used. The original product must be purchased new from an authorized Phase One partner. The iXA camera systems are not covered by the Phase One Investment Protection Program.

Isn't it too good to be true? Why then my IQ160 to IQ260 upgrade was quoted for $14,000 (offer from dealer only) when IQ260 was just announced? Phase One knows how to play the pricing game and didn't offer official upgrade from IQ160 to IQ260, but few dealers only.

There are issues we have with the Investment Protection Program. For many, it is a good program to have in place. However, the program is not as transparent as it should be so that buyers can buy with a clear understanding. We have requested more clarity from Phase One to be accessible for end users.

In Subrata's case, since his IQ160 purchase was an upgrade from a previous Phase One model, he received credit for his trade in. 90% credit of the amount he paid for his IQ160 applied to a purchase of an IQ260 would have resulted in a higher amount than what he actually upgraded for ($13,990).

Our position is that it's a program that Phase One initiated and as such, it is good for many, but it does not make sense for everyone and not enough details are clearly published by Phase One.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

 

[subrata1965]

Why would someone who bought from another dealer need to contact you offline?


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

I didn't upgrade yet. I wish I could have say why IQ160 to IQ260 costs about $14K, instead of saying "my IQ160 to IQ260 upgrade was quoted for $14,000". I have corrected original post.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Can I just have the damn leftovers. Lol

 

[GrahamWelland]

So I'm a little confused here. Am I correct in thinking that Steve's comment about upgrades -> IQ160 only have the 90% purchase protection on the delta between the trade and the new IQ160 price paid at the time? That how it reads and doesn't make any sense to me because ultimately anyone who bought an upgraded back would have had an invoice showing new price less allowance for trade in. Surely the new price is the one used for the purchase protection otherwise it's just a worthless offer in my opinion.

I do think though that the folks at Phase One carefully considered the IQ160 -> IQ260 volume and hence why it hasn't been offered 'officially' but only on a dealer basis.

 

[kdphotography]

Lance,

IQ260 is definitely a newer generation MFDB as compared to IQ160. Megapixel is only one part of the equation.

.....

I'm with Subrata on this one. The IQ260 is an upgrade from the IQ160. I believe I heard it right: Better dynamic range on the IQ260 (albeit slight but intimating closer to DR of the IQ180); wireless hoopla; 60 minute long exposures.

Sounds like an upgrade to me. Dunno about all that fine print stuff on "investment protection program" though. C'mon, really, Subrata? Do you really believe it's an investment protection program? It's really just to keep you here in Dante's Inferno.

So when are you upgrading to the IQ260? Make sure to also get an Achromatic IQ260 too so you can bring that down when you visit....

 

[Steve Hendrix]

So I'm a little confused here. Am I correct in thinking that Steve's comment about upgrades -> IQ160 only have the 90% purchase protection on the delta between the trade and the new IQ160 price paid at the time? That how it reads and doesn't make any sense to me because ultimately anyone who bought an upgraded back would have had an invoice showing new price less allowance for trade in. Surely the new price is the one used for the purchase protection otherwise it's just a worthless offer in my opinion.

I do think though that the folks at Phase One carefully considered the IQ160 -> IQ260 volume and hence why it hasn't been offered 'officially' but only on a dealer basis.

The missing information from the P1 Investment Program FAQ is that it is basically a program for new purchase only, not for upgraders. This is only hinted at by referring to "new product" and "invoice price". It is not clear what Phase One means by invoice price. It would be very simple to state that the invoice price refers to the price paid for the new product, minus any discounts, promotions or trade-in credits.

I can understand their implemented restrictions - if one purchases a new product and uses a pre-existing product as trade-in, offering 90% credit of price without trade-in is fiscally unrealistic.

As it stands, in most (but not all) cases, anyone upgrading who purchased their upgrade product via trade-in likely won't benefit from the program. And certainly this is the majority of cases. But for anyone who is purchasing for the first time, or does not wish to trade in, the program does have some merit.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

 

[GrahamWelland]

Steve,

Basically Phase One should kill this and be completely open and honest about the "Investment Protection" plan. It's nothing more than marketing BS for the vast majority of folks who are loyal Phase One users.

You trade your back in, you're not in "Investment Protection" period (well, not in any financially worthwhile way at least). I read also Paul Caldwell's coverage of this in his blog and I'm in agreement with him. It hasn't factored in to my calculations since my P40+ which I bought new without any trades.

Great marketing message with no substance I'm afraid. Kind of like advertising a car "special" with only one vehicle on the lot that applies (oh, and it 'sold' earlier today).

 

[stephengilbert]

I don't know whether Phase could get away with legally avoiding their "upgrade program" by its strained definition of the term, but it sure looks sleazy to make a promise regarding upgrades and then define upgrade as excluding a 160 to 260 change.

Is it Phase's position that the 260 is not an upgrade over the 160? If so, perhaps they should change their advertising.

 

[Steve Hendrix]

Steve,

Basically Phase One should kill this and be completely open and honest about the "Investment Protection" plan. It's nothing more than marketing BS for the vast majority of folks who are loyal Phase One users.

You trade your back in, you're not in "Investment Protection" period (well, not in any financially worthwhile way at least). I read also Paul Caldwell's coverage of this in his blog and I'm in agreement with him. It hasn't factored in to my calculations since my P40+ which I bought new without any trades.

Great marketing message with no substance I'm afraid. Kind of like advertising a car "special" with only one vehicle on the lot that applies (oh, and it 'sold' earlier today).

I agree 100%.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Bottom line for end users no matter how you slice the cheese. We consider a upgrade as getting a new back with our hard cold cash. Anything else is marketing stuff. I agree get rid of the program . Frankly what they should really be designing any upgrades, cross grades or whatever you call it a path to keep customers within there systems by giving great upgrades to people or laterals for backs. My pea brain says this I want a customer to last a lifetime and do whatever is needed to keep that customer. Oh wait I run a photography business and frankly we would kill for lifetime customers. Sorry I'm with the end users seat on this one.

This also does nothing good for the dealers either as it makes them look bad. And it's not there fault as it is force fed to them to have to answer to a lame *** program.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Oh and I'm selling picket signs starting tommorrow morning for 20k with a upgrade path of only 5 k for embossed lettering. Yea I'm a **** and I know it. Lol

 

[subrata1965]

The missing information from the P1 Investment Program FAQ is that it is basically a program for new purchase only, not for upgraders. This is only hinted at by referring to "new product" and "invoice price". It is not clear what Phase One means by invoice price. It would be very simple to state that the invoice price refers to the price paid for the new product, minus any discounts, promotions or trade-in credits.

I can understand their implemented restrictions - if one purchases a new product and uses a pre-existing product as trade-in, offering 90% credit of price without trade-in is fiscally unrealistic.

As it stands, in most (but not all) cases, anyone upgrading who purchased their upgrade product via trade-in likely won't benefit from the program. And certainly this is the majority of cases. But for anyone who is purchasing for the first time, or does not wish to trade in, the program does have some merit.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

Steve, please advice our friends in Phase One to make the policy more transparent.

I love & respect Phase One products, but don't enjoy marketing BS from a company like this, specially when I'm having my morning coffee.

 

[Steve Hendrix]

Steve, please advice our friends in Phase One to make the policy more transparent.

I love & respect Phase One products, but don't enjoy marketing BS from a company like this, specially when I'm having my morning coffee.

We have and will continue to do so.

To be fair, the program itself is not a bad thing - for new purchasers who have not previously upgraded. As it stands, Phase One has offered a similar situation to all users in many cases via the upgrade program. Last April a client upgraded their P45+ to an IQ180 with CI. They received $17,200 credit for their P45+ via the trade in program. If they had utilized the 90% Investment Protection Program, they would have received $17,991 credit. Some units will actually produce higher than 90% credit on a trade in, some a bit less.

I'm sure there are some exceptions, but generally the traditional upgrade program itself has more or less provided this for some time to all Phase One users, regardless of whether they bought new or upgraded previously.

The problem is in how they word it and market it. I strongly feel if they simply word it clearly, accurately, and transparently that it's worth having (in some cases).



Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration