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My hang up with the Alpa FPS

markymarkrb

New member
A few months back, I borrowed an Alpa STC to use with an IQ180. I was blown away by the image quality of the Rodi lenses but the cable release/sync setup really didn't excite me too much not to mention the price of the accessories.

Then, along came the FPS. I really like the quickness that this will add to the tech cam process especially because I mainly shoot panoramic sunsets/sunrises. My hang up is that I really only shoot panoramic 617 format images and the FPS being wider than the other 12 line doesn't have the ability to shift the wider angle lenses with the SB17 lenses. You also loose out on the ability to tilt and swing. Does anyone think that Alpa will ever address this?

If you were to purchase one lens to achieve the 617 panoramic format with 2 stitched shots on the IQ180/FPS with the priority being maximizing depth of field, which lens would you purchase? For example, you could stitch shots with the HR50 using the STC as an attachment but any shorter focal length will not have the ability to do so on the FPS. I could always crop the IQ180 shots but the 617 format cropped out of an IQ180 shot is about 36 megapixels and you are really loosing out on your investment. Just looking for any ideas. Thanks for the help.


Mark
 

danlindberg

Well-known member
Zeiss CFi 4/40 IF is as sharp as SK 35 XL with the Credo 60. I can use this lens with FPS + MAX + tilt.

Unshifted at eyelevel height, 1,5 degree forward tilt, f8-11 and focus at infinity gives me a tremendously sharp image at all distances. It will be interesting to see how much punishment it can take shifting horizontally for a 617 format stitch. Or atleast a 2:1....

Ofcourse the Credo 60 and IQ 180 are different beasts but still if it works 'very well' with my back it could be something to try out!

I'll let you know!
 

Frederic

Member
Are you saying stitching is not possible below 50mm with the FPS and a shift capable body ?
This would be bad news as I'm really interested in the FPS and might consider leaving the arca ecosystem just for it. Now if that's only a matter of lens availability...
 

markymarkrb

New member
I don't own a FPS but from what I have studied about it, the only way to stitch with the FPS is to add a camera from the 12 line to it and this requires the SB34 lenses. Alpa just introduced the SB17 FPS mount lenses so they can be directly mounted to the FPS but there is no way to mount the SB17 lenses and a ALPA 12 camera and reach infinity. So, in short yes, the HR50mm is the shortest focal length in the SB34mm mount and thereby the shortest one you could stitch.

Mark
 

rupho

New member
Hi Dan
Congrats on your new home
May I ask you rearing the Zeiss 40if :
- can you still focus to infinity with the FPS / max and T/s adapter 17mm assuming that's the combo you used?
- which adapter mounts the 40if onto that combo assuming you found this lens in V mount, isn't that discontinued?
- whats the image circle would there be room for rise and fall on the max
- lastly have you also tried the 30mm distagon from Zeiss?

Thanks in advance

Zeiss CFi 4/40 IF is as sharp as SK 35 XL with the Credo 60. I can use this lens with FPS + MAX + tilt.

Unshifted at eyelevel height, 1,5 degree forward tilt, f8-11 and focus at infinity gives me a tremendously sharp image at all distances. It will be interesting to see how much punishment it can take shifting horizontally for a 617 format stitch. Or atleast a 2:1....

Ofcourse the Credo 60 and IQ 180 are different beasts but still if it works 'very well' with my back it could be something to try out!

I'll let you know!
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
Isn't possible to purchase the adapter to allow the use of the Canon TS-E lenses? You would not be shifting with the camera back but using the shifting capabilities of the lenses. As I understand it this similar to how the H-cam works.


Paul Caldwell
 

danlindberg

Well-known member
Are you saying stitching is not possible below 50mm with the FPS and a shift capable body ?
This would be bad news as I'm really interested in the FPS and might consider leaving the arca ecosystem just for it. Now if that's only a matter of lens availability...
The beauty of the FPS lies in the already great flexibility but also (many possible) developments down the road. It is true that as of now the Hr50 is the widest large format lens from Rodenstock and Schneider to use movements with FPS. But you can already enjoy lensmounts for Hassy V lenses or Mamiya 645 lenses with good image circles. I have tested My Distagon 4/40 IF with excellent result. The lens has however only been used with tilt, so movements-tests are yet to come - but so far, very positive, sharp, sharp, sharp.

You can also use the attractive (relatively small) package of FPS and Canon Tse lenses. As I understand it, these extreme wides will work very nicely even with shifts if light permits f11. The new Schneider PC-28-TS will be most interesting together with the FPS. (I'm hoping for this one....)


Hi Dan
Congrats on your new home
May I ask you rearing the Zeiss 40if :
- can you still focus to infinity with the FPS / max and T/s adapter 17mm assuming that's the combo you used?
- which adapter mounts the 40if onto that combo assuming you found this lens in V mount, isn't that discontinued?
- whats the image circle would there be room for rise and fall on the max
- lastly have you also tried the 30mm distagon from Zeiss?

Thanks in advance
Yes indeed. FPS+MAX+17tilt+HassyV-adapter+lens=infinity

The lens is only to be found in the secondhand market. I got lucky and could buy a mint condition (LNIB). Pretty expensive, but it really is a beuatiful lens. It does distort but micro contrast, level of detail and sharpness is impressive and rivals the Schneider 35XL on direct comparison with the Credo 60.

There is a specific lens mount for Hassy V and FPS.

Image circle. This is more difficult to know which is which because I have found two numbers circling around. 83mm and 88mm. But I do not know if either of these are correct or not. I will do real world tests on how much movements I can sqeeze out of it.

Nope, never even seen a Distagon 30 live. Saw one for sale that looked in perfect condition close to me in Sweden, but at 2000 euros I thought it was too steep for a lens I know nothing about.....(looks nice though...)
 

Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
I used the CFE / IF on a full frame back and my experience was that although in the center it was very sharp, in the outest cornerst it became a little softer. Not comparable in my opinion to a tech camera lens with large imace circle. So I highly doubt you'd be happy using it on an FPS with shifsts on a 180 back. At least, you should try it beforehand which might be difficult due to the fact that you mainly find it on ebay. I also hat the impression that it suffered from chromatic aberrations in stark contrast situations - which capture one handled easily - but is not on par with moden tech cam lenses again. Finally, I thought it had some field curvature, but that might have been my impression ...

I would buy the CFE / IF again if I wanted to shoot wide-angle in a one-shot scenario on my DF, but not as an ersatz to the tech cam lenses in an alpa combo. Especially not if your goal is utmost quality in a 617 stitch scenario with 100+ MPX.

There is nothing that beats a shiftable tech cam such as the Alpa Max with a large IC tech cam lens for your purposes. The biggest advantage to me with the CFE / IF is that it is pretty wide on a full frame sensor and beats anything that Mamiya produced so far below 80mm. But as I said, the utmost corners also become a little softer and you wont have perfect sharpness all over the frame.

The best wide-angle I ever used on medium format was the 28mm from Hassy. Sharp corner to corner, albeit on a cropped sensor. But that one was great!
 

danlindberg

Well-known member
Paul,

80mp back probably punish the Distagon a lot more than my 60mp back. The IF version is a world apart from the older version (have had both) that couldn't hold up my back either. But, 'unshifted' at f8 I can asure you that corners too are imressively crisp with the IF. Maybe shifted it breaks apart, I don't know, but I'll let you know :)
 

Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
Dan, did you try to photograph a planar surface between 5-10 meters in distance of the lens, say a facade of a building. I am wondering if you see field curvature. I really liked the lens, it is an astonising piece of workmanship, you feel the German solidity as soon as you hold it. But I doubt it will work as well when shifted. I am too interested in your findings should you stitch ...
 

rupho

New member
The Schneider PC 28TS is taking quite a while to come out and I wonder if it can compete with the Canon 24TSE. One other option to use a mid rage wide on an FPS/MAX combo is the 40mm Superrotator from Hartblei which according to Stefan Steib is pretty identical in terms of lens design. All you need is a Canon mount on the FPS.
there are 2 other options I wondered if they could work and what you folks think how they hold up in terms of quality on 60 or 80 MP digital backs:

38mm Biogon in V mount that would be a similar set up s Dan's 40mm Distagon or the
Zeiss built 3.5, 35mm for the Contax 645.

has anybody experience with these lenses. How does the Biogon compare to the Distagon?
 

Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
i can only recommend you to test such non tech cam lens setups beforehand. 80 mpx full frame and stitching is a very high standard and even the best zeiss designs from the mid 2000s come to their limits, as ive seen with the 40 cfe if ...
 
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Frederic

Member
Is the HR50 still the widest lens you can mount on an Alpa 12 body + FPS combo (and reach infinity with) ?
Thanks,
Frederic

I don't own a FPS but from what I have studied about it, the only way to stitch with the FPS is to add a camera from the 12 line to it and this requires the SB34 lenses. Alpa just introduced the SB17 FPS mount lenses so they can be directly mounted to the FPS but there is no way to mount the SB17 lenses and a ALPA 12 camera and reach infinity. So, in short yes, the HR50mm is the shortest focal length in the SB34mm mount and thereby the shortest one you could stitch.

Mark
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Is the HR50 still the widest lens you can mount on an Alpa 12 body + FPS combo (and reach infinity with) ?
Thanks,
Frederic
I can't answer that question - I hope someone can chime in on that.

But I'd be reticent not to point out that since this 2013 thread another option has started to percolate. Arca Swiss has announced (but not yet shipped) a compact and modular focal plane shutter addition to their system. This can be used on the Arca RM3Di, Factum, RL3Di, or any of their view cameras including the new Univeralis.

This can be used (with rise/fall/tilt/swing) on an R series with nearly any lens (including the 23HR) since the R system was conceived and built from the beginning to have as little hard-wired space as possible, thereby allowing a lot of flexibility in modular components. This is also the reason they have a rotamount (rotation without removal) and rotaslide (sliding ground glass).

Some details in our Arca Swiss Photokina Report.
 

jotloob

Subscriber Member
Is the HR50 still the widest lens you can mount on an Alpa 12 body + FPS combo (and reach infinity with) ?
Thanks,
Frederic
Frederic

You should forward your question directly to ALPA . The E-Mail address can be found on the ALPA homepage .
If you do so , you won't get answers what ARCA , CAMBO or other cameras can do , but you will get a qualified and correct answer .
 

Frederic

Member
Thanks, but being an AS user and living about a hundred miles from their HQ, I know fairly well the new dEx options.

As you say, it has yet to be shipped and, AFAIC, tested.

I can't answer that question - I hope someone can chime in on that.

But I'd be reticent not to point out that since this 2013 thread another option has started to percolate. Arca Swiss has announced (but not yet shipped) a compact and modular focal plane shutter addition to their system. This can be used on the Arca RM3Di, Factum, RL3Di, or any of their view cameras including the new Univeralis.

This can be used (with rise/fall/tilt/swing) on an R series with nearly any lens (including the 23HR) since the R system was conceived and built from the beginning to have as little hard-wired space as possible, thereby allowing a lot of flexibility in modular components. This is also the reason they have a rotamount (rotation without removal) and rotaslide (sliding ground glass).

Some details in our Arca Swiss Photokina Report.
 

Frederic

Member
Will do I guess, just thought some Alpa users could answer that too.

Frederic

You should forward your question directly to ALPA . The E-Mail address can be found on the ALPA homepage .
If you do so , you won't get answers what ARCA , CAMBO or other cameras can do , but you will get a qualified and correct answer .
 
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