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Problems tethering H4? - Contact me

fotografz

Well-known member
Back to the original post and a few questions for the OP based on the first post ... in an effort to assist rather than making stuff up to bash Hasselbald:

Hello all,

I have owned or tested 4 Hasselblad H4's over the past two years and currently own two H4D's which I use professionally. I wont bore you all with the entire story here however, I have had countless problems getting this camera to work correctly tethered to the point that it does not work in a professional setting as a tethered camera. I have tried absolutely everything, changed cables, computers etc. etc and have been given a phenomenal amount of "run around" by Hasselblad. In the end, I have figured out the problem and Hasselblad's solution was to come up with the H5 and change the configuration while pretending I'm the only person who has had trouble with the H4.

If you own or owned an H4 and use it tethered or have had a problem using it tethered, I'd like to hear from you and find out what your experience has been or if you found a solution. Please message me if you have any experience or thoughts on Hasselblad H4's and any issues related to tethering.

Thanks
If you have "figured out the problem" ... what was it?

Since no-one has been through each step along the way looking for a solution in this specific case, and Nick's offer to assist in finding a solution apparently hasn't been met with acceptance, all anyone can do is offer speculative solutions or ask specific questions. One can use multiple cameras, different computers, swap out tether cords, etc, ... however, if the same mistake is made with each attempt, then the result is likely to be the same.

I say this because it is highly unlikely that multiple H4 cameras, using different computers, are all defective or have an inherent design flaw when others have indicated no issues with the same H4 model ... I had a H4D/40 and then a H4D/60, and my former partner has a H4D/50 ... and the tethered operation was quite stable allowing continuous use all day.

One poster here offered the suggestion to run the Disk Utility application and clean up Permissions (or the PC equivalent). That is the first suggestion my dealer makes when there are issues. Run it multiple times. In past, I recall some trashing their preferences altogether, but you need to know the specific ones to trash. Nick probably knows which. My dealer did it for me when we first set up the camera. There has been no response from the OP on this suggestion.

In setting up the tethered operation, was a folder created on the desktop to shoot to?

I also mentioned that since the back is not powered by a separate battery (the grip battery powers the camera and the back), and the backs are very power sensitive, (more so than other FW800 devices), some computers (such as some laptops) may not have the juice through the FW port to run tethered consistently. Aux power may be required. My laptop is an older Mac Pro 15" with 8 gigs of RAM ...but when using it in the field for longer shoots, I plug it into either a Profoto BatPac, or now a much smaller, less expensive PCB Lithium inverter. I also went to using an AC powered grip to maintain a very consistent level of power in studio. No discussion or clarification on this from the OP.

The above may be why those who use a H2 or H4X camera and Phase back have no issues, Phase backs have a separate power source for the back.

In terms of power management, Hasselblad has increased the juice in the grip battery for the H5D to accommodate new more demanding functions, but according to my rep and Hasselblad NJ, it can be used on the H4D cameras ... it may also be of some help when using a laptop with poor FW power management (???). The new configuration on the H5 backs now accepts a separate battery and that battery will be usable on the H4D/60. My assumption was this was done so the backs could be used on an untethered tech camera. Of course that is of no help to those with a H4D/40 or 50, but the new grip battery may ... however, I'm not sure if it will if all of the power for the back is switched over to the computer source when tethered to a laptop with inconsistent FW power management.

I also assume that all components of the camera and software were configured consistently. There is firmware for the body/finder, lenses, and digital magazine which have to be in concert with the correct version of Phocus. All are available on the Hasselblad website and are user doable.

The camera's FW port itself can be an issue if not seated correctly, or if too much downward torque is applied when in use. I installed a simple Tether Tools device that removes any possibility of such torque or accidental yanking of the cord during shooting.

The tether cord cannot exceed a certain length as power diminishes with any longer cord for almost anything. For example, when you add extensions to a strobe cord, the effective W/s is cut. IMO, an even shorter FW cord is sometimes required when working with certain Laptops.

So, this is more in the spirit of possible solutions rather than bashing Hasselblad or seeking fodder for a lawsuit ... which of course remains the OP's option.

- Marc
 

Bildifokus

Member
To run the Disk Utility application and clean up Permissions usually solve the problem when my MB Pro is acting strange. I also do a safestart and then restart the computer.
 

jecxz

Active member
I know it's not the H4D, but I've shot my H3DII39s tethered without issue on my Windows 7 PC (you didn't indicate PC or Mac). I do have a laptop with a small FW port which won't work tethered unless I attach it to a powered FW hub and then it will work, and I can even update the firmware that way. If you have been trying with a laptop with a FW port, that could be the issue.

If you have not already, as already suggested, try hasselbladdigitalforum.com - Index as there might be a lot more people who can help you as it's a dedicated forum just for H digital camera users.

Hasselblad has always taken care of issues; if you are in the US, contact Paul in the NJ office.

Kind regards,
Derek
 

oneword

New member
Thanks, I appreciate you taking the time to suggest something but, I have already tried absolutely every thing possible. Some cameras work and some don't. Hasselblad technical support asked me to do that (and I did about 1000) times in the early days of this problem but, it does not fix it in my case

Cheers

To run the Disk Utility application and clean up Permissions usually solve the problem when my MB Pro is acting strange. I also do a safestart and then restart the computer.
 

oneword

New member
Thanks for the reply

I have tried the powered and they are an improvement but not a fix in my case.

I am using Macs

I suspect the problem is that the back is being powered from the FW and some backs use more power than others so, some cameras work and some do not which is why they made it possible to power the back in the H5 from the camera itself

I believe Paul is no longer there but, I dealt with him early on and he gave up . Hasselblad also asked me to deal with the distributor and not their people directly.

As for them doing something, they have already told me to "stick it" they have offered to allow me to trade them against an H5 but only if I pay full MSRP for the H5 and they will give me less than I can sell them used even though I have never had a working camera from them. Essentially, I'd like to return them but, that window closed long ago while they jerked me around for 2 years pretending to find a fix to a problem I think they know exists.

Pretty bad customer service to a guy who's owned multiple Hassys, makes their living with them and helps tons of others make buying decisions on cameras. I cant tell you how many peers have told me they wont buy Hassy any more and most have switched to Phase. I've spoken to multiple DT's who say Hassy and Phocus are hopeless and am on a shoot this week where the Art Director actually asked me in the pre pro not to shoot Hasselblad because we dont have time to deal with all the tethering issues. I rented a Phase



I know it's not the H4D, but I've shot my H3DII39s tethered without issue on my Windows 7 PC (you didn't indicate PC or Mac). I do have a laptop with a small FW port which won't work tethered unless I attach it to a powered FW hub and then it will work, and I can even update the firmware that way. If you have been trying with a laptop with a FW port, that could be the issue.

If you have not already, as already suggested, try hasselbladdigitalforum.com - Index as there might be a lot more people who can help you as it's a dedicated forum just for H digital camera users.

Hasselblad has always taken care of issues; if you are in the US, contact Paul in the NJ office.

Kind regards,
Derek
 

oneword

New member
Thanks Marc,

I appreciate you taking the time to detail suggestions however, I have tried them all as has the dealer and their technical people. I have also worked with digital techs in LA and Toronto on shoots who have more experience likely than Hassys own people and none can make the camera work in a consistent and stable way.

Everything in your list of suggestions has been tried.

As detailed in my other replies, I believe that some backs draw more power or draw inconsistently (due to manufacturing tolerances or some other variable) which is why some work well consistently and some do not.

At this point, I'm not left with many choices, I have $50 K plus in Hasselblad gear and two years waiting for them to start working reliably tethered. My assistants are pretty used to the phrase "switch to Canon" while on a shoot because the starting, restarting and pulling and replacing of batteries has slowed down the shoot so much that the client/model/art director are all getting impatient. Call Hasselblad bashing or seeking fodder for a lawsuit but, at this point, I'm left hanging with gear that does not work as promised and I was originally trying to find out how many others are out there in the same boat (which turns out to be a pretty substantial number).

Back to the original post and a few questions for the OP based on the first post ... in an effort to assist rather than making stuff up to bash Hasselbald:



If you have "figured out the problem" ... what was it?

Since no-one has been through each step along the way looking for a solution in this specific case, and Nick's offer to assist in finding a solution apparently hasn't been met with acceptance, all anyone can do is offer speculative solutions or ask specific questions. One can use multiple cameras, different computers, swap out tether cords, etc, ... however, if the same mistake is made with each attempt, then the result is likely to be the same.

I say this because it is highly unlikely that multiple H4 cameras, using different computers, are all defective or have an inherent design flaw when others have indicated no issues with the same H4 model ... I had a H4D/40 and then a H4D/60, and my former partner has a H4D/50 ... and the tethered operation was quite stable allowing continuous use all day.

One poster here offered the suggestion to run the Disk Utility application and clean up Permissions (or the PC equivalent). That is the first suggestion my dealer makes when there are issues. Run it multiple times. In past, I recall some trashing their preferences altogether, but you need to know the specific ones to trash. Nick probably knows which. My dealer did it for me when we first set up the camera. There has been no response from the OP on this suggestion.

In setting up the tethered operation, was a folder created on the desktop to shoot to?

I also mentioned that since the back is not powered by a separate battery (the grip battery powers the camera and the back), and the backs are very power sensitive, (more so than other FW800 devices), some computers (such as some laptops) may not have the juice through the FW port to run tethered consistently. Aux power may be required. My laptop is an older Mac Pro 15" with 8 gigs of RAM ...but when using it in the field for longer shoots, I plug it into either a Profoto BatPac, or now a much smaller, less expensive PCB Lithium inverter. I also went to using an AC powered grip to maintain a very consistent level of power in studio. No discussion or clarification on this from the OP.

The above may be why those who use a H2 or H4X camera and Phase back have no issues, Phase backs have a separate power source for the back.

In terms of power management, Hasselblad has increased the juice in the grip battery for the H5D to accommodate new more demanding functions, but according to my rep and Hasselblad NJ, it can be used on the H4D cameras ... it may also be of some help when using a laptop with poor FW power management (???). The new configuration on the H5 backs now accepts a separate battery and that battery will be usable on the H4D/60. My assumption was this was done so the backs could be used on an untethered tech camera. Of course that is of no help to those with a H4D/40 or 50, but the new grip battery may ... however, I'm not sure if it will if all of the power for the back is switched over to the computer source when tethered to a laptop with inconsistent FW power management.

I also assume that all components of the camera and software were configured consistently. There is firmware for the body/finder, lenses, and digital magazine which have to be in concert with the correct version of Phocus. All are available on the Hasselblad website and are user doable.

The camera's FW port itself can be an issue if not seated correctly, or if too much downward torque is applied when in use. I installed a simple Tether Tools device that removes any possibility of such torque or accidental yanking of the cord during shooting.

The tether cord cannot exceed a certain length as power diminishes with any longer cord for almost anything. For example, when you add extensions to a strobe cord, the effective W/s is cut. IMO, an even shorter FW cord is sometimes required when working with certain Laptops.

So, this is more in the spirit of possible solutions rather than bashing Hasselblad or seeking fodder for a lawsuit ... which of course remains the OP's option.

- Marc
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
At this point, I'm not left with many choices, I have $50 K plus in Hasselblad gear and two years waiting for them to start working reliably tethered. My assistants are pretty used to the phrase "switch to Canon" while on a shoot because the starting, restarting and pulling and replacing of batteries has slowed down the shoot so much that the client/model/art director are all getting impatient. Call Hasselblad bashing or seeking fodder for a lawsuit but, at this point, I'm left hanging with gear that does not work as promised and I was originally trying to find out how many others are out there in the same boat (which turns out to be a pretty substantial number).
There are alternatives to Hasselblad without switching to 35mm, which includes strong trade-in value for your current digital back, and with which you could continue to use your HC lenses...
 

oneword

New member
Thanks Doug,

What do you mean strong trade in value? who is offering this? More details would be great as I'm exploring all options

Thanks

There are alternatives to Hasselblad without switching to 35mm, which includes strong trade-in value for your current digital back, and with which you could continue to use your HC lenses...
 

jecxz

Active member
I believe Paul is no longer there but, I dealt with him early on and he gave up . Hasselblad also asked me to deal with the distributor and not their people directly.
That's not been my experience with Paul and he is still there. I have worked with him since 2005 and know him to never give up or send you back to the retailer. What state are you in and who is the retailer/distributor? Have your issues only been on Mac laptops or desktop too?

Kind regards,
Derek
 
Last edited:

stngoldberg

Well-known member
There is something amiss with this complaint, if he claims Paul is no longer there or gave up.
I spoke to Paul last week and have been communicating with him occasionally for over six years.
Paul never gives up-he has always found a solution to every problem that either I or my dealer has ever presented. Paul is an outstanding and venerable fixture at Hasselblad.
Stanley
 

JorisV

New member
This whole thread is starting to feel like a bad play...

Sorry guys... perhaps I am wrong here but I seriously have my doubts...
 

timgo

Member
Despite your having tried "everything" I suggest you concentrate on the voltage/amperage source. If your cameras works fine with the 7.2v battery grip, but provide intermittant operation tethered via firewire, then it's likely volts and/or amps.

The Gretag I1 usb spectrophotometer for monitor calibration provided similar intermittent failures if plugged into the keyboard USB port on a Mac. When plugged directly into a USB port on the motherboard, no problems. I only cite the Gretag I1 experience to illustrate the tethering problem is not limited to just Hasselblads.

I have a H4D-60. On my 15" Macbook Pro the tethering is undependable. With my Mac Pro, tethering is consistent and reliable, for long periods of time. The cable is the same for both computers.

Why the voltage/amperage problems? Could be cable or could be the FW port on your mac. 7.2 volts and 1800 milliamps is a lot. I suspect that your FW cable and/or computer do not ever deliver those volts and amps to your digital back. More likely cable or computer puts out the bottom of the required range of volts or amps the DB requires.

You describe that it happens over multiple cameras. That would make me focus on the cables and the computer's FW port. Of course, you could have poor solder connections with the FW port on the DB, but I would think that was the least likely cause.

The path I would take is to hunt down a computer that works with my camera in tethered mode. Buy a variety of different configurations of FW cable: 800>800, 800>400, 400>400. Visit friends with PC's and Macs. Load Phocus and try every cable. If nothing works, move to another computer until you've tried four or six different types. That's the pathway with the lowest outlay of money.

You know tethering with Hasselblad H3 and H4's is possible. Too many people report success to say the feature is broken or has a fundamental design flaw.
 
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