The Uber camera that was rumored to be in development. My DF is getting old...
The Uber camera that was rumored to be in development. My DF is getting old...
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I am sure a new camera is in the works, either P1 directly or from the Mamiya team. doesn't make sense if they are not doing it.
This is evident from the obvious patch up work on the DF+, the rumors, references; and recently, when P1 said they would offer investment protection on all of their new backs, but not on the DF+ camera. suggesting they are expecting significant depreciation on the bodies once the new one comes out. Timing wise might be a few months after the refresh of the Leaf backs.
I would love to see a waist level finder, smaller size, better build, faster AF, and long expo settings to match the capability of the IQ260. And in general, SEXIER looking please!
Dealers worldwide has been told about the new camera but it is still top secret. "Expect new technology you never expect in medium format camera", I was told.
The speed at which MF cameras are developed is so slow that I suspect it will be what ultimately kills the market off. I know too many photogs that got tired of their MF camera body "not having feature X, Y or Z available" that comes standard on a $200 P&S shirt-pocket camera. Many of them have given up waiting, sold out and moved to one of the current higher end DSLR's that have most of those desired features available. No the DSLR file isn't quite as good as the MF file, but it is pretty dang close and the usability is eons ahead of MF.
There, I said it out loud.
"Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."5 Member(s) liked this post
I was lured to Phase 1 with the promise of a new camera body.
I don't need a lot of bells and whistles that a point and shoot camera has - I would like high quality auto focus (a inherent narrow depth of field makes that a must).
A more sophisticated exposure metering process would be an advantage.
A user interface which is as nice to use as the IQ backs are.
And able to accommodate the use of older Phase 1 digital backs.
I don't need a sexy looking body - just a competent well balanced tool.
Thanks you for reading my list
PS. About those high end, DSLR, I thought we might see a high resolution Canon in the 30+ range by now, but apparently it takes a long time for Canon to bring a new high end DSLR camera to the market place.
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A new MF camera should not compete with redunant features.
What will never be redundant and is within the positives of MF is the size of the format. I would not get stuck on 645, but go up to 67 and even if it is "only" a 9 micron chip. Other, 135 format will always be ahead in features. It was never really any different in the film days.
I was about to pull out the CC for this little jewel until I had a conversation with someone else and was reminded of the new improved body that might be coming out later this year. While the thought of flying over top a herd of buffalo has merit I'd rather wait a bit more and see what comes out of P1.
So, until then I'll just sit back and
I don't know the load capacity on that 'copter, but I think Ken should try it first.
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that thing is sexy. I can think of so many applications for it!
Going off topic
I really really really (you get the point) want one of these before our next trip to Jackson Hole. I have visions of flying over a buffalo or elk or moose herd and skimming along the Snake River near Oxbow Bend. Not entirely certain how the Park Rangers feel about it but then again what they don't know won't cause me to get a ticket.....
I've been told it's likely to be a manual focus studio-type camera (think Contax) but don't quote me on that.
I am pretty sure if they are working on it (IF - they are) then it MUST be connected to a future CMOS Back and Live View- AK an Electronic Viewfinder. Then they can do a mirrorless body (which already exists in form of the Industrial bodies) preventing mirror slap and making the whole camera actually cheaper and faster.
So if there is CMOS - there is a new Body.
Greetings from Germany
The camera will come out tomorrow. Tomorrow. Tomorrow. Bet your bottom dollar that tomorrow, the camera will come out. I love you, tomorrow.
http://www.hakusancreation.com1 Member(s) liked this post
I heard they are working on a "cheaper" CMOS back which will be used in the new camera systems.
well, Phase One certainly has plans for it, as well as plans for cmos based MFDB's. In LuLa's interview with Phase's CEO he certainly indicated it was coming, especially the camera.
I don't think the MF shooters are that envious of all the bells and whistles, heck I don't use them even when I shoot my d800. Still everything on manual, including focus most of the time. now a cmos back, that's what I really would like to see happen.
Just a question for those technical folk.
If they build a new camera which matches in with a new back with a CMOS chip, does that mean the new camera will not work with the old CCD chip backs?
I am assuming that Phase One will stay with the open system approach and not build a Leicaesque CMOS chipped integrated camera.
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I don't imagine the new pee-one will be a leaf shutter system and so don't imagine I'll be the least interested.
Ill take dumb and reliable. I would like bracketing and exposure comp to be decoupled and AF to be better than glacial too. Oh, and real leaf shutter operation vs focal plane shutter AND leaf shutter combo when shooting in LS mode.
Ok, ok, I'd also take multi AF points and tighter integration with the back too. Heck, a 2008 DSLR vs. 1998 DSLR would be a big improvement. The ONLY reason for my DF is to hold the glass!
A new kick butt wide angle TS Schneider lens wouldn't go amiss either. Give us a reason to not dream of a Leica S ...
Rosebud ...1 Member(s) liked this post
Yes, I'm aware of the Schneider LS lenses. I'm not sure how the leaf shutters are implemented with the DF or obviously the new P1 body, but if it's anything like the Leica S system then I'll pass.
Leica S sequence:-
2.Mirror goes up
3.Aperture diaphragm closes down to desired f-stop
4.Focal plane shutter opens
5.Camera starts exposure electronically
6.Central shutter closes
8.Focal plane shutter closes
9.Central shutter opens
As some on this forum have found this is a recipe for vibration. I'm not sure of the DF firing sequence, perhaps it's better? It needs to be.
DF is pretty much the same sequence. Two shutters trip vs just the leaf shutter alone.
As a landscape photographer, I am not very demanding. What I need are bigger viewfinder with split screen for MF, excellent AF (DF+ is good enough for me), great battery (DF+ with rechargeable battery is more than enough), good set-up for MUP and live view as good as cheap 35mm DSLRs.
It's very easy, just copy the Leica S2 and add a few, landscape photographers will be very happy
Can I ask for SK 24, 35mm and 300mm? T/S with some wide angle lenses would be nice.
Last edited by Landscapelover; 20th July 2013 at 03:36.
AF speed on the DF is okay. But now that we have these really great dilithium crystal batteries, I'd expect that the focusing motors can now jump to warp speed....
But more importantly, I'd like more AF accuracy--- and by that I mean control, or at least knowing more confidently where the camera has locked focus pre-focus mask check on the IQ MFDB. Okay, so I get that it's hard to have a bazillion focus points ala Canon eos, but I'd settle for just a couple more strategically spaced out, and controlled by both CF and a small button toggle control. Too much to ask? Then how about the option in a CF to light up a small AF cross hair in red in the viewfinder that shows exactly where the camera has locked focus?
I really don't want a camera like a DSLR or point and shoot that is so jam packed with electronics and features no one really uses. I just want a medium format platform that accomplishes "the basics" really really well.
Rock-solid, reliable, vibration free (focal/LS options), and great autofocus.
That's what I want when I invest in the next Phase camera. 2014?
Yeah, and I'd even take one in Ferrari edition red... Whatever Phase does, just don't slap on ebony wood grips on a camera body and call it "new."
I am just dreaming of real, usable, selectable focus points.....
www.michaeljmoorephotography.com1 Member(s) liked this post
I'm thinking of selling my Mamiya AFD III with all my lenses and whatnot and just stay with my Cambo...
Rosebud ...2 Member(s) liked this post
a Phase one body with DSRL features would be awesome actually. an accurate and fast auto focus to start.
actually it makes sense for the current flagship like of the full frame DSLRs to move to medium format, and let the prosumer line such as 800e and 5D be full frame 135mm
I wouldnt expect a New Phase One camera much before Photokina 2014 (Mid-Late Sept.). That would be my guess. Expect full compatibility with most of the Mamiya/SK lenses. Would be nice to see tilt/shift lenses. CMOS should take a bit more to appear in a new back.
I guess Pentax can thank Hassy and Phase for being so far behind, they seem to have really taken off.
I wish Phase/Mamiya would develop some new lenses for the RZ. Just a 35mm and a nice fast 70 or 80. Then I wouldn't need a new body or new features or anything else. It's the only limitation of an RZ and digital back ... then I can sit it out and wait for a new 6x7 digital back that would work on my techno as well!! Seems so obvious that this is what Phase should do.
it will come, sooner or later...
the question is:
Will the lens mount be the same? (Mamiya)
Will the back mount stay the same? (Mamiya, or maybe something completely new)
They would have to be out of their minds to consider either of those options. It would be commercial suicide to abandon either standard.
Rosebud ...3 Member(s) liked this post
+1 to what Graham said and if the lens mount is maintained, they are stuck with screw-focus unless a new line of lenses were to be introduced with integral motors.
Great post, its sad for anyone in love with DMF leave this systems because of body technology based on 10years models.
There is a market for new products in the DMF industry, not just more more GIGA GIGA pixeis.
My wish list for the next 3 years:
- Digital Monochrome Rolleiflex TwinLens / digital Xpan / Digital Mamiya 7
- great 400/800 iso files
- Faster AF performance
- Big Big viewfinder with optical or digital magnification for critical focus
- 5000$ entry level system
Anyone share same list?
Ugg! Canon and MFD seems like McDonald's getting into the Gourmet food business.
Personally, I'm wishing the best for Phase One. They may be the last bastion for MFD that preserves the experiential traditions while advancing the cause ... because I feel Hasselblad has taken both eyes off the ball.
Leica walks alone (as usual), and doesn't produce a back for use on tech cameras ... to mention one glaring difference amongst others.
The "dual shutter" issue perplexes me ... but I'm not an engineer, so a lot of seeming oversights perplex me. I just do no get why when you select CS Mode (or LS), the focal plane shutter doesn't just open and stay that way until FP Mode is selected? Probably a good reason, but I can't seem to figure out why that would be an issue. Light leaks? Power drain? What? How the heck did Hasselblad do it with the 200 series V cameras with a 500 series CF lens mounted? Or did they?
Most likely light leaks and power. The mirror would not prevent light from striking the image plane. It would also help keep the image plane clean when changing lenses. Usually, you need power to keep a shutter open.
So where does the Pentax 645D fit into this world view of MFD? It is what a Mamiya DF should be with all the benefits of an S2. All for a really nice price.
Improving the FP shutter can certainly be done to vibration. Alpa use the same Mamiya shutter in the FPS and it has remarkable low shutter vibration and even seems to be quieter/softer than Copal leaf shutters from the feedback I've seen and some of the vibration tests from folks using it.
I do think that they could make the FP/leaf shutter combo better though. If there was an option to have the FP shutter lock open when LS lenses are used in leaf shutter mode then that would help. Maybe even if only in mirror up mode conditions - perhaps on demand? Ideally without draining the battery while doing it, although the new Phase One / EJII battery monsters have made power drain and sensitivity almost a thing of the past.
Regarding light leaks, they have the opportunity to fix the DF/DF+ body which is light porous through the AF assist sensor and also curiously one of the strap mounts.
-No leaf shutter lenses.
-Sensor too small.
-Beauty is in the eye of the beholder: In my eye, the Pentax is one of the most ugly cameras ever built...
^^Don't dismiss this as complete stupidity: Most of the creative professionals I've met value the apperance of a camera and only the very most rational tend to buy into a system that does not impress at once (kind of a "showing off factor").
To me, the Pentax 645D is more of a replacement for 35mm. The camera is increadibly light. AF is super fast and you even get a usable ISO800 file out of it.
The DF sounds like a Holga. All you need is a bunch of black gaffer's tape and it should be fairly light tight. How cool is that!Regarding light leaks, they have the opportunity to fix the DF/DF+ body which is light porous through the AF assist sensor and also curiously one of the strap mounts.
Please can you describe what do you mean by "experiential traditions"?...I'm wishing the best for Phase One. They may be the last bastion for MFD that preserves the experiential traditions...
It astonishes me, given that Canon first provided an electronic first curtain shutter in a DSLR six years ago, eliminating shake caused by the camera.The "dual shutter" issue perplexes me ...
Of course leaf shutter lenses are not a necessity and my Mamiya AFD II restricts me to use lenses without LS. However I wish I had a system with LS lenses as my work would greatly benefit from it. The leaf shutter lenses you mentioned are for the Pentax 67 and therefore manual focus only am I right? I don't mean to tease you, I'm just saying it makes the whole system a lot less attractive considering the great AF performance of the 645D. Seems like one cannot have it all...
Regarding sensor sizes, I wouldn't ever considering buying a back with a sensor smaller than 48mm*36mm.