Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3
Just 300mm shots only
Just 300mm shots only
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Eleanor, I'm trying to figure out who you have a beef with. Is it skinny women, the fashion and pin up world or men in general? Do you have a preference for images of chunky women over boney ones? What do you think of images where men are objectified?
Let me remind you that whatever opinions you have regarding objectified females in fashion photography, they are done for the consumption of women who buy those fashion magazines, and not men, including those of idealized and objectified young males! Fashion world and fashion photography isn't a good boys club the way you think of it, the industry is dominated by plenty of high powered women at every level including the very top.
Regarding Bob's images, fact is that the girls were happy to take his money and pose for him I don't really get why you're having a problem with it.
Funny thing is that the last time I had this conversation I was criticized for for using my subjects as objects rather than objectifying them as people, I'm still trying to figure that one out...
FYI, women photographers that I've had the pleasure of working with and learning from don't seem to have a chip on their shoulders and apparently neither does this lady photographer;
http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13034&d=1236057234
http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showpost.php?p=80519&postcount=3
To conclude, the real world thinking women in my life don't appreciate being called common or stereo typical just because they're cool with female sexuality!
We might live in different worlds Eleanor but I'm not looking for a fight. Enjoy your Merlot!Leave it be David. We live in different worlds.
1. you didn't read my post carefully.
2. you're trying to pick a fight
3. You're trying to turn what I said into a "black and white situation", which is isn't, and
4. You're the last person I'm going to get into a debate with. Enough said. Leave it be.
5. I've been to the top of a 14,000+ foot peak today with some wonderful images and I'm going to enjoy a glass of Merlot and process my P65 shots.
Eleanor
You are jumping from black to white here, and skipping all the tones in between. There is a whole world of healthy, beautiful people in between stick and chunk. Someone like Monica Belucci would be a standard example. She is not thin, but still gorgeous. I don't get the stick people either.Eleanor, I'm trying to figure out who you have a beef with. Is it skinny women, the fashion and pin up world or men in general? Do you have a preference for images of chunky women over boney ones? What do you think of images where men are objectified?
Eleanour, I have to disagree on all counts. Whether images of women 'gets old' is a subjective matter. There are millions of photos of cats, dogs, leaves, cars, landscapes, etc. Everything has been done a million times - why focus your objection on images of women? And what does Bob's image have to do with fashion photography? Actually there is very little fashion photography posted on this board.Fashion is absolutely not all bad but there is enough "stuff' out there that turns women into "objects" in the name of "art", uh...money.....so much so that it gets really old really fast.
Totally agree. Most big fashion mags have female editors, for example.Fashion world and fashion photography isn't a good boys club the way you think of it, the industry is dominated by plenty of high powered women at every level including the very top.
Ohh, please show us some.--snip--
5. I've been to the top of a 14,000+ foot peak today with some wonderful images and I'm going to enjoy a glass of Merlot and process my P65 shots.
Eleanor
FWIW, I was not offended by Bob's image. It didn't work for me, but that's a separate issue and I don't expect to like every image posted here.
What does bother me is the attempts by some to impose their own view of morality on the board.
I was banned from a Flickr group (without warning) for posting this image:
The reason given was that is was 'nudity'. When I pointed out that this did not meet with the dictionary definition of the word, and there was much less visible than in a bikini shot (which is allowed on the group), the woman changed her argument to "I wouldn't want my daughter to dress like that". I responded with asking her whether she would ban all photos and films depicting any immoral or illegal behaviour which might influence her daughter (which would inculde nearly every film released today) and she never responded. She had no argument and she knew it. (She didn't have the integrity to unban me either).
Eleanour, I have to disagree on all counts. Whether images of women 'gets old' is a subjective matter. There are millions of photos of cats, dogs, leaves, cars, landscapes, etc. Everything has been done a million times - why focus your objection on images of women? And what does Bob's image have to do with fashion photography? Actually there is very little fashion photography posted on this board.
But since you brought up fashion photography, women aren't being 'objectified'. Women want to spend money on fashion and beauty. Women respond to advertising. It is the marketer's job to determine what kinds of marketing works best on women, and women respond best to photos of beautiful and slim women. (An aspirational response). If women responded better to photos of less attractive and heavier-built women, then the profit-hungry fashion corporations would surely take advantage of that fact. So in the end, the reason fashion photography features so many 'stick figured' women (as you put it) is because that is what works on women - men don't even figure into this equation.
Sort of why the "Marlboro Man" worked so well........
But since you brought up fashion photography, women aren't being 'objectified'. Women want to spend money on fashion and beauty. Women respond to advertising. It is the marketer's job to determine what kinds of marketing works best on women, and women respond best to photos of beautiful and slim women. (An aspirational response). If women responded better to photos of less attractive and heavier-built women, then the profit-hungry fashion corporations would surely take advantage of that fact. So in the end, the reason fashion photography features so many 'stick figured' women (as you put it) is because that is what works on women - men don't even figure into this equation.
Which one? I'm guessing the clouds were pretty interesting given the pounding we got in Denver.5. I've been to the top of a 14,000+ foot peak today with some wonderful images and I'm going to enjoy a glass of Merlot and process my P65 shots.
Eleanor
Which one? I'm guessing the clouds were pretty interesting given the pounding we got in Denver.
Or at least tell us what brand and year of Merlot you were enjoying! :thumbup:Ohh, please show us some.
-bob
Or at least tell us what brand and year of Merlot you were enjoying! :thumbup:
Here is a makeover movie by Dove which also hammers home the point of how unrealistic our expectations are:As a side note, much of what has influenced me has been knowing my friend, Wendy and her parents for the past 35 plus years. Wendy has become part of the Dove campaign for real beauty and self esteem for women and is a "model" for Dove.