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Thread: Fun with MF images

  1. #7801
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    Re: Fun with MF images



    Great Sand Dunes National Park, Alamosa, CO.
    Phase One DF with IQ 180 and SK 150mm LS

  2. #7802
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    sweet sand dunes

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    Re: Fun with MF images

    a landscape shot from Brooklyn, cambo, IQ160, rodie 70mm


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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent Goetz View Post
    sweet sand dunes
    Vincent,
    Thank you very much for your kind words.
    Pramote

  5. #7805
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    Re: Fun with MF images



    With my new 45mm. Thank you Graham Welland! I love this lens.

  6. #7806
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    I've been in photographic doldrums of late; the leaves are gone, skies are cloudy, but I like this one. I'm inclined to crop the rock from the top, but I get uncomfortable when nothing in the picture is sharp. 1/4s, 120mm, 645D.

    Tom


    _IGP6287 by tsjanik47, on Flickr

  7. #7807
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    keep the rock...

  8. #7808
    Senior Member mediumcool's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Quote Originally Posted by tsjanik View Post
    I've been in photographic doldrums of late; the leaves are gone, skies are cloudy, but I like this one. I'm inclined to crop the rock from the top, but I get uncomfortable when nothing in the picture is sharp. 1/4s, 120mm, 645D.

    Tom


    _IGP6287 by tsjanik47, on Flickr
    Lose the rock! What distracts me is the cut-off piece top left; if you cropped that out, the middle rock gets uncomfortably close to the top edge of the frame.

    If you are concerned about sharpening, some local [coarse] sharpening could be applied to the white bits, which I have taken the liberty of doing (way over-done so itís obvious).


  9. #7809
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent Goetz View Post
    With my new 45mm. Thank you Graham Welland! I love this lens.
    Vincent, very nice color there in CA!

    Other than my technical camera lenses, the 45D was my sharpest lens! (Hopefully my pending 55LS when I get home will make up for it on the full frame sensor I use now). I'm so glad you like it and I repeat my warning that you!ll now be demanding that same performance from the rest of your Phase/Mamiya glass ... Hold on to your wallet!
    Ylem ...

  10. #7810
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Wish I had some of the color and locales that you guys have... very jealous!

    Aptus II 6 - rz Pro IID - 110/2.8

    First shot giving Silver Efex a trial


    also my first run on some new legs (an iphone 4s snap) - berlebach 8043:


    Cheers!
    Shelby

  11. #7811
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Nice old school legs Shelby

  12. #7812
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Hi,
    long time not posted here, so i'd like to come back with an image from
    Glenade Lough, Ireland.

    Shot with H3DII, HC 3.5/50II, Lee Big Stopper.

    Best Regards,
    Ralf

  13. #7813
    Paul66
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    rmueller, LOVE the B&W !!!
    I just ordered a Mamiya DM28 645DF kit and hope to be adding to this thread soon.

  14. #7814
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    welcome Paul

  15. #7815
    Senior Member The Smoking Camera's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Wonderful shots Shelby.
    Very nice B&W Mueller.
    ........................................
    Joe
    www.thesmokingcamera.com

  16. #7816
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Lewis View Post
    Wish I had some of the color and locales that you guys have... very jealous!

    also my first run on some new legs (an iphone 4s snap) - berlebach 8043:


    Cheers!
    Shelby
    ŅDo they not make a wooden digital camera that would look good on wooden legs?

    Observing how regularly we see pictures of the same scenes at Horseshoe Bend and Monument Valley, I wonder if there are more good landscapes in the Cotswolds than there are in the USA?

    Ņand is fall color any better than Autumn colour?

    I was hoping that my pacemaker would have given me the energy to get out there and take some pictures myself.

  17. #7817
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Tom, your fine water image inspires me to post one of mine. I'm in favor of cropping out the rocks, btw. 645AFD11, 120mm, P45+, 6/10 sec
    Attachment 51614

  18. #7818
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Couple shots taken in Oct.


    CF000411 by yatlee, on Flickr


    Rocky Gorge 1 by yatlee, on Flickr

  19. #7819
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Couple shots taken in Oct. YatLee

    Truly amazing pictures Yat!
    Thanks very much for your kind advice regarding the view camera.
    Pramote

  20. #7820
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    Re: Fun with MF images



    Great Sand Dunes National Park
    Alamosa, CO
    Phase One DF with SK 55mm LS; IQ 180.

    Pramote

  21. #7821
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    H3DII39 + HTS + 28mm + 81C + 0.9 ND Grad



    Kind regards,
    Derek Jecxz
    http://www.jecxz.com
    http://www.facebook.com/derek.jecxz.photographer

  22. #7822
    Senior Member Bill Caulfeild-Browne's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Along the shore of Lake Erie yesterday. C1 defaults, IQ180, 150 mm D. Hand held.



  23. #7823
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Lots of nice shots on here at the moment, this one's my fave!




    Quote Originally Posted by jecxz View Post
    H3DII39 + HTS + 28mm + 81C + 0.9 ND Grad



    Kind regards,
    Derek Jecxz
    http://www.jecxz.com
    http://www.facebook.com/derek.jecxz.photographer

  24. #7824
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    some creatures shot with the S2




  25. #7825
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Thanks everyone for the kind replies!

    Finally got to use those old school legs this afternoon. Here's one from my first headshot session shot solely with the RZ. Overcast with reflector for fill. Initial workup - I'll probably reprocess this with a slightly higher red/yellow content in the skin at a later time.

    RZ Pro IID - Aptus II6 - 110/2.8 @ f/5.6 - 1/60 @ ISO 100 on a tripod.

    A fellow music student (much younger, obviously!)


    Cheers!
    Shelby
    Last edited by Shelby Lewis; 27th November 2011 at 20:17.

  26. #7826
    Senior Member mediumcool's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Caulfeild-Browne View Post
    Along the shore of Lake Erie yesterday. C1 defaults, IQ180, 150 mm D. Hand held.

    Colour saturation just right. Funny how inanimate stones can look so lively!

  27. #7827
    Senior Member Bill Caulfeild-Browne's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Thanks Mediumcool - these same stones lose most of their color when they're dry!
    Bill

  28. #7828
    Paul66
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Ok so I've never used Medium Format before, are you all using a filter for the landscapes? The colors seem to just pop so much better than the 5D Mark2.

  29. #7829
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Love the sense of movement in this one (compositionally)...

    Quote Originally Posted by yatlee View Post
    Couple shots taken in Oct.

    Rocky Gorge 1 by yatlee, on Flickr

  30. #7830
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Quote Originally Posted by mediumcool View Post
    Colour saturation just right. Funny how inanimate stones can look so lively!
    I have the same visceral reaction ... great job, Bill, capturing such a (seemingly!) simple scene so nicely.

  31. #7831
    Senior Member Swissblad's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Lots of wonderful images gents!
    Shelby, I really like your portrait - nice work.
    TFS, S.

  32. #7832
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Quote Originally Posted by mediumcool View Post
    Colour saturation just right. Funny how inanimate stones can look so lively!
    +1

  33. #7833
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Caulfeild-Browne View Post
    Along the shore of Lake Erie yesterday. C1 defaults, IQ180, 150 mm D. Hand held.

    Iím one of those people who canít leave well enough alone; how about a very subtle vignette? Thinking Ė1 in C1 for example.

    0.02!

  34. #7834
    Workshop Member Bryan Stephens's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Shelby

    Great headshot. Makes me think that I might not need to go with a 645DF and could just stick with my RZ67 pro ii (non-D) and just get an adapter.

  35. #7835
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Quote Originally Posted by Body-scenics View Post
    Shelby

    Great headshot. (snip)
    I agree, and a beautiful young woman. Love that high-key background.

  36. #7836
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Boston, MA H4D-60
    BlasR

    BMROWLDPHOTOS.COM

  37. #7837
    Paul66
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul66 View Post
    Ok so I've never used Medium Format before, are you all using a filter for the landscapes? The colors seem to just pop so much better than the 5D Mark2.
    Anyone?

  38. #7838
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul66 View Post
    Anyone?
    I certainly can't answer for anyone else, but I don't use any kind of intensifying filters, only GNDs, and on occasion a ND to lengthen an exposure. I'll rarely use a polarizing filter, but never if the sky is in the frame, due to their uneven effect on the sky in wide angle shots.

    I think the real answer to your question lies with the inherent color depth and tonal range that a MF digital back is capable of capturing. It's NOT all about resolution, which some people tend to think.

  39. #7839
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul66 View Post
    Anyone?
    Hey Paul,

    I'm not much of a landscape guy, but my general feeling around here is that beyond the occasional polarizer or ND (for slowing shutter speeds to aid with silkier water), most around here don't use filters that much.

    Several of the tech-cam guys prefer to take multiple exposures and blend them as opposed to using ND-grads and the like.

    Sometimes you'll see some center-filter usage as well, but that's really just for fall-off correction.

    I think the great color you see here is due to all the "umph" these cams have in their files as well as the amount of care that many here put into both capture and processing... especially the capture phase. Some of the more experienced members here walk away with files that need very little technical work on the file, leaving the only "pushing and pulling" in post to the creative enhancements... which gives a great file in the end.

    Just my impressions, probably not gospel.

  40. #7840
    Paul66
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Thanks Jamie and Shelby, I have been checking out all these wonderful images, I had heard the Medium Format blows the stuff I'm using out of the water

  41. #7841
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul66 View Post
    Anyone?
    Medium format color is a different world. However, the advantage of medium format is not necessarily that it is more saturated/vibrant than smaller formats (this can be done in post processing with even crappy point and shoots) but rather that subtle differences between similar colors will correctly show and can be exaggerated (or minimized) in post. As you saturate the files (or add contrast, clarity, or curves) the ability for the sensor/system to tell the difference between subtly different subjects becomes more important.

    Post processing can enhance the colors that are captured, but you cannot create a difference between two colors that was not captured in the first place. If a dSLR does not capture the subtle varieties of a color then when you go to saturate the image in post-processing the result can look unnatural with pasty fake looking color. The same thing can happen with a medium format image, but in general only at a higher level of saturation/enhancement.

    Also to record good color the scene has to fit within the dynamic range of the camera. Medium format backs excel at recording a wide dynamic range, and recording subject matter with good color accuracy and tonal differentiation deep into that range.

    Therefore, in general, a medium format image will take more post-processing abuse and still look tactile, dimensional, and "real".

    Of course this is just simplifying one of many differences that exist between two very different kinds of cameras. Here is a partial list of the things that affect the final image (the point is to show there are many factors - it is a system):
    Lens Hood / Flare > Lens coating > lens > aperture/shutter > body's internal blackness > IR filter > microlenses (or lack thereof) > AA filter (or lack thereof) > sensor size > sensor resolution > sensor pixel type > readout speed > sensor-to-AD-convertor path, A/D convertor (both bit depth and quality) > heat sinking / cooling > raw file compression > black calibration > in camera raw data manipulation > characteristic curve > ICC profile > demosaic algorithm > deconvolution algorithm > noise reduction type > up-res or down-res algorithm > sharpening

    Note that resolution is on that list (it's what most first-time-lookers focus on) but is really only one part of the overall system.

    You may find for instance, as many here have, that Capture One Pro produces much better color with your existing Canon than LightRoom or Aperture. The profiling and demosaicing in raw processing is often overlooked by users as being just something that happens in the background which takes a raw file that contains no color (only Red pixels, blue pixels, and green pixels) and lots of issues (e.g. chromatic aberration, noise, stuck pixels, color crossover, uneven spectral response etc) and makes it into the "true image" when in fact the raw processor is largely responsible for the end result (even before you go to enhance or style the image).

    In medium format raw processing benifits from tight coordiantion between the hardware and software. The guys who make Phase One digital backs work down the hall from the guys who write the Capture One software that is recommended for Phase One backs. They speak constantly with Leaf and Mamiya engineers who make those backs. They all take mutual pride in making each other look better and both have a financial/business incentive to make the best total system.

    Suffice it to say that medium format cameras don't have low cost, high ISO, fast shooting speeds, or a huge number of features, and they are more difficult to learn and to use; so if they don't deliver fantastic image quality and a good user experience then they won't be purchased by anyone. As a result the engineering, marketing, and resources of medium format companies goes very heavily into making the image capture the best quality images (even if it means sacrificing a convenience or non-quality-related feature).

    So in short, yes, medium format colors are just better :-).

    That said, part of it is often just better overall craftsmanship - users of medium format backs tend to be (though of course not always) more sophisticated overall photographers (composition, subject matter, post processing, lens selection, use of polarizers where useful, shooting at better times of day (even when it means waking up very early!), willing to get off the beaten path to find good stuff, patient etc). Both because it requires a major investment that usually indicates a higher level of seriousness/commitment and because the equipment itself is not conducive to run-and-gun thoughtless photography but rather encourages slower, more considered effort.

    Probably you didn't get many answers quickly because this is primarily a thread intended to post images and is considered a respite from more technically/equipment oriented threads. Also because most of the difference is hard to explain until you've used medium format - the internet is full of folks trying to prove/disprove the difference using numbers or posting web JPGs. If you want the real answer to this question you really must try a back yourself by rental, purchase, or one of the workshops put on by the GetDPI folks. Of course I should point out for full disclosure that I'm highly biased in all that I've written here in that my company (Capture Integration) is a medium format dealer.

    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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  42. #7842
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul66 View Post
    Thanks Jamie and Shelby, I have been checking out all these wonderful images, I had heard the Medium Format blows the stuff I'm using out of the water
    It's really according to what you are using it for... I have a 5d Mark II as well and I think the files are really very pretty. At it's best, the 5Dii is a great camera.... portable, high IQ, low-noise (not as low as most would say, IMO). For people and landscape work, it's a great system. So many accesories and very affordable to boot. If print size isn't a huge concern, I've seen some very nice stuff out of the 5Dii when used with Zeiss ZE lenses or the better L-series primes and newer ts-e lenses.

    Plenty of guys making a living on the 5Dii.

    I actually can't see a huge resolution difference (it's there, though) between my 5Dii and my 28mp Aptus II-6... but the files from the aptus can be pushed and pulled so much further, and the sharpness (when I nail the technique) is just mind-boggling. The RZ glass has a gentleness in it's rendering that I personally like that takes a bit of the edge off... while not losing all that MF resolution.

    In the end, though, it's the subtle gradation in colors that come along with the 16bits and high resolution that seems to really help, especially for landscape work. Even for headshots/portraits, if I have a retouch-intensive job, the MF files always look nicer in the shadow regions. The transitions are so much smoother.

    I also have a LOT more headroom in the highlights with my aptus than with the 5dii... I can recover highlight info in my aptus files that really surprises me sometimes.

    In the end, though... the best camera is the one that you have with you!

  43. #7843
    Paul66
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Thanks for the insite Doug and the continued info Shelby.
    I have ordered a Mamiya DM-Series 28Mp DSLR Camera Kit with 80mm LS Lens from a local dealer and it should be here by this weekend.
    I am a slow shooter and try to do everything in camera, I'm not a fan of setting for hours in post processing when I could have spent time on location and got it right during the shoot.

  44. #7844
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Thanks Lloyd and Swissblad for the kind words about the headshot... much appreciated!

    Body-scenics, the RZ certainly is a viable platform. I'm using because I want to shoot more slowly and carefully, but it's definitely not for those in a hurry. I use it on a tripod exclusively during these sessions. Focusing, for me, is a tad tricky at further distances... but for the tight faces that I shoot not a problem. I shot about 60 frames during yesterday's hour session and a majority were in focus... not bad for a first time out with that specific camera with only the eye-plane being in focus (f/5.6 is pretty shallow on MF).

    I think my focus screen may need a very slight adjustment... or I may need another diopter in the WLF magnifier (which I use all the time)... as I always miss (if I miss) to the front.

  45. #7845
    Paul66
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/file...2/img_9468.jpg

    Here is the link to what I sot with the 5D Mark2 I want to reshoot it with the new gear and try to print it big.

  46. #7846
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Quote Originally Posted by 2jbourret View Post
    Tom, your fine water image inspires me to post one of mine.
    Thanks Jamie

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Caulfeild-Browne View Post
    Along the shore of Lake Erie yesterday. C1 defaults, IQ180, 150 mm D. Hand held.
    Very nice image Bill. The diversity of rock types along Erie's shore always creates some great shorelines.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Lewis View Post
    Thanks everyone for the kind replies!

    Finally got to use those old school legs this afternoon. Here's one from my first headshot session shot solely with the RZ. Overcast with reflector for fill. Initial workup -Cheers!
    Shelby
    Nice one. She'll love this shot even more in 30 years!

    Tom

  47. #7847
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    Medium format color is a different world. However, the advantage of medium format is not necessarily that it is more saturated/vibrant than smaller formats (this can be done in post processing with even crappy point and shoots) but rather that subtle differences between similar colors will correctly show and can be exaggerated (or minimized) in post. As you saturate the files (or add contrast, clarity, or curves) the ability for the sensor/system to tell the difference between subtly different subjects becomes more important.

    Post processing can enhance the colors that are captured, but you cannot create a difference between two colors that was not captured in the first place. If a dSLR does not capture the subtle varieties of a color then when you go to saturate the image in post-processing the result can look unnatural with pasty fake looking color. The same thing can happen with a medium format image, but in general only at a higher level of saturation/enhancement.

    Also to record good color the scene has to fit within the dynamic range of the camera. Medium format backs excel at recording a wide dynamic range, and recording subject matter with good color accuracy and tonal differentiation deep into that range.

    Therefore, in general, a medium format image will take more post-processing abuse and still look tactile, dimensional, and "real".

    Of course this is just simplifying one of many differences that exist between two very different kinds of cameras. Here is a partial list of the things that affect the final image (the point is to show there are many factors - it is a system):
    Lens Hood / Flare > Lens coating > lens > aperture/shutter > body's internal blackness > IR filter > microlenses (or lack thereof) > AA filter (or lack thereof) > sensor size > sensor resolution > sensor pixel type > readout speed > sensor-to-AD-convertor path, A/D convertor (both bit depth and quality) > heat sinking / cooling > raw file compression > black calibration > in camera raw data manipulation > characteristic curve > ICC profile > demosaic algorithm > deconvolution algorithm > noise reduction type > up-res or down-res algorithm > sharpening

    Note that resolution is on that list (it's what most first-time-lookers focus on) but is really only one part of the overall system.

    You may find for instance, as many here have, that Capture One Pro produces much better color with your existing Canon than LightRoom or Aperture. The profiling and demosaicing in raw processing is often overlooked by users as being just something that happens in the background which takes a raw file that contains no color (only Red pixels, blue pixels, and green pixels) and lots of issues (e.g. chromatic aberration, noise, stuck pixels, color crossover, uneven spectral response etc) and makes it into the "true image" when in fact the raw processor is largely responsible for the end result (even before you go to enhance or style the image).

    In medium format raw processing benifits from tight coordiantion between the hardware and software. The guys who make Phase One digital backs work down the hall from the guys who write the Capture One software that is recommended for Phase One backs. They speak constantly with Leaf and Mamiya engineers who make those backs. They all take mutual pride in making each other look better and both have a financial/business incentive to make the best total system.

    Suffice it to say that medium format cameras don't have low cost, high ISO, fast shooting speeds, or a huge number of features, and they are more difficult to learn and to use; so if they don't deliver fantastic image quality and a good user experience then they won't be purchased by anyone. As a result the engineering, marketing, and resources of medium format companies goes very heavily into making the image capture the best quality images (even if it means sacrificing a convenience or non-quality-related feature).

    So in short, yes, medium format colors are just better :-).

    That said, part of it is often just better overall craftsmanship - users of medium format backs tend to be (though of course not always) more sophisticated overall photographers (composition, subject matter, post processing, lens selection, use of polarizers where useful, shooting at better times of day (even when it means waking up very early!), willing to get off the beaten path to find good stuff, patient etc). Both because it requires a major investment that usually indicates a higher level of seriousness/commitment and because the equipment itself is not conducive to run-and-gun thoughtless photography but rather encourages slower, more considered effort.

    Probably you didn't get many answers quickly because this is primarily a thread intended to post images and is considered a respite from more technically/equipment oriented threads. Also because most of the difference is hard to explain until you've used medium format - the internet is full of folks trying to prove/disprove the difference using numbers or posting web JPGs. If you want the real answer to this question you really must try a back yourself by rental, purchase, or one of the workshops put on by the GetDPI folks. Of course I should point out for full disclosure that I'm highly biased in all that I've written here in that my company (Capture Integration) is a medium format dealer.

    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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    Doug, one of the best, clearest, well written post on this subject ever!

    -Marc

  48. #7848
    Senior Member Bill Caulfeild-Browne's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Well said Marc and thank you Doug!
    Bill

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    Senior Member Bill Caulfeild-Browne's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Lewis View Post
    I have the same visceral reaction ... great job, Bill, capturing such a (seemingly!) simple scene so nicely.
    Thanks Shelby, t streng and medium cool. And I will try a slight vignette.
    Bill

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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Lewis View Post



    Cheers!
    Shelby
    Nice shot!

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