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Thread: Fun with MF images

  1. #801
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Thanks cmb and Don! It's been quite the ride.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Stuart, I got her to stand still for the two she was in, then asked her to stand behind me She is (or rather, was... now she is getting too camera-aware) a great subject, and we had a lot of fun setting up stuff for photos. (...)
    Congrats, Carsten, with your newborn daughter !
    Have you tried to put her big sister, Jana, on the other side of a camera ...
    /Steen

  3. #803
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Also CONGRATULATIONS for your new born daughter: I know what it is, mine is now 7 months, but it feels like the first day, still.


    All the best to her (and to you),
    Thierry

  4. #804
    Natasa Stojsic
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by cmb_ View Post
    Carsten - a big CONGRATULATIONS ! ! ! on the birth of your daughter.

    CONGRATULATIONS

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Wow, err, thanks everyone Jana is actually not my daughter, but the daughter of my ex-girlfriend. We just have a great relationship (the daughter) and she visits me regularly.

    Yep, it is interesting for sure, and we are lucky in that she is not that difficult. If she cries, something is wrong, and the list of possible items is short.

    Anyway, I am distracting too much here. Back to photography!
    Carsten - Website

  6. #806
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Awkard silence....

    Lol, just kidding. Life happens... back to photography.

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Went up into the Yosemite high country yesterday. As we anticipated -- and why we did not schedule an Eastern Sierra Fall color workshop -- the color is poor this year. The air was clear and there were virtually no clouds, so the light was really too harsh by about 8:00. I found only a hint of color as shown in the last image. But I had a nice early morning drive and grabbed a few snaps:
    Jack
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    Senior Subscriber Member Mike Hatam's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Nice shots Jack. I especially like the middle shot. Some cool geometry going on there.
    Mike Hatam
    Sony A99, RX1, RX100

  9. #809
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    ...I mean, a new Sinar e54 LV now costs 6000 Euro! Amazing. ...
    Hi Carsten,

    first of all: congratulations to the birth of your daughter.
    and then: Where do you get a Sinar-Back for that price?

    Best regards,
    Claus

  10. #810
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Claus, first of all, thank you!

    And, I have no idea http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3707
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Decided to take it easy and just chill in my easy chair this afternoon and see what C1 4.5 can or cant do for my workflow. I took a image from last weeks Cambo test and opened it in 4.5 (currently just operating on my laptop). I opened the image in CS3 and tweaked it till what you see below I never once saw or worked on the image in Bridge as I normally would have. Im impressed. Now I need to see what it will do on my studio computer running 64 bit.

    Jack its a tossup between the first two images although the moon kinda wins in my opinion. Looks like you had the same type of sky we had last week at the North Rim; I think the technical term is something it sucked.




    don
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  12. #812
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Thanx a lot. I missed that

  13. #813
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Creek View Post
    I think the technical term is something it sucked.[/FONT]
    Indeed... Clear blue skies are not the landscape photographer's dream...

    BTW, nice capture there Don!

    Cheers,
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Jack – I learned a very long time ago that the worse the weather; the more it snow, rains, blows, etc., the better the photographic opportunities there are. I hate hot, flat boring skies as that will often times extend into the area that I want to capture.

    Glad you liked the technical term!

    don

    I just noticed the clouds in the first image! You got to see more clouds than I did!
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  15. #815
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Creek View Post

    I just noticed the clouds in the first image! You got to see more clouds than I did!
    Precisely why I posted that version along with the one of the moon
    Jack
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Here's one from down the road in a little town called Cedarburg. Appropriately enough, overlooking Cedar Creek.

    Kurt

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by hatam View Post
    Nice shots Jack. I especially like the middle shot. Some cool geometry going on there.
    Thanks Mike:

    Here is a revised version using CS4's new "Content Aware Scaling" just for fun -- :
    Jack
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  18. #818
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Kurt --- very nice!
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Nice shots guys.

    It's scary what PS does so automatically now. No image is to be trusted I guess.

    I love the Yosemite high country, as well as other parts of the Sierras, but like Jack, I too found conditions less than ideal – very clear skies and few colors. Still, a great place to spend time.

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Hahaha, you guys should come here! More than enough rain, snow, and gales to keep anyone satisfied. Seriously though, there are many days when it is hard to drag yourself out to shoot -- dark, overcast, windy and cold. More often than not, instead of overcast it is sleeting or raining horizontally. They are days to work on your studio stuff! I guess everyone wants what they don't usually get....

    This was taken two Januarys ago -- it is a pretty accurate representation of the light level at 9:30 in the morning.

    It does not get THAT much brighter, particularly if it is cloudy.
    By 1:30 pm or so, it looks like this:


    And by 3:30 or so, back to this:


    The dearth of light in the winter is repaid with 24 hours of light in the summer, and extremely long sunrise and sunset light for the rest of the year...the golden hour lasts all day in the early spring and fall.

    Anyway, none of those were MF digital, but they were DMR, so Imacon...I guess that counts on a technicality.
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  21. #821
    jmvdigital
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Stuart, great stuff! I'd love to visit Iceland to photograph for a few weeks, but man, that looks cold! Post some more?

  22. #822
    jmvdigital
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    Poudre Canyon

    Another shot from Poudre Canyon last week.

    EDIT: The color on this shot is funky depending on which monitor I pull this window to. On my MBP (the default main screen), things look great, on my secondary Eizo, it looks too purple and blue. YMMV. I think it must be because Safari only uses one monitor profile (the main screen's) regardless of which monitor the window is on.

    EDIT #2: For some reason the top of the rocks all look dark. Kinda like a bad mask job on the sky, but this is straight from LR, no local adjustments made. Strange.

  23. #823
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Stuart:

    Great images and I would DEFINITELY love to come photograph Iceland. Maybe we can make it a GetDPI workshop destination?

    ,
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Thank you guys.

    Jack -- Guy and I had talked about doing something in May, but I am not sure if that is still on. I do have my work visa now though, so I will be here. Frankly, this is probably the best year in a long time to go -- their economy is in total shambles, so everything costs about 40-50% less (in dollars) than it did last year. It is still more expensive than it is in the U.S., but that fast food value meal that was 15 dollars last year (seriously), is now a bargain at 8! Similarly, the price of a watery beer at a bar is down from 10 dollars a pint to 5.

    As for more pictures, there are a number on my website. I don't really have many medium format digital though, as I just got that recently and I have only been here two weeks or so. But here are some medium format film shots:


    Mamiya 7II 43mm

    Mamiya 7II, 43mm
    It gets pretty nice and green in the summer though...doesn't get much about 60 degrees though:

    DMR, 19mm. Some of the white you see there (the brightest part at the bottom) is actually glacier, not clouds. The glaciers are usually covered in clouds, so it is not too often that you get to see them clearly.
    Obviously, someone did not like the guy who lived here:


    Actually, it means something like "Ridge Hill". Anyway, that's enough for now...I was trying to find some that I don't think I have posted before or a lot anyway...
    My photos are here: http://www.stuartrichardson.com and more recent work here: http://stuartrichardson.tumblr.com/ Please have a look at my book!
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Stuart

    Keep this up and you'll get me back into an airplane! Great images.

    don
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    I posted this inside another thread as an example to someone but it belongs here Stitched pano.


  27. #827
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Graham - Great image.

    don
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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Agreed, very nice image Graham!
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Sorry I don't have D back, cannot afford, so these two are scanned with a cheap Epson 4870.

    501cm + 80mm




  30. #830
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    No need to apologize here sinwen --- those are great images!
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Could you give me a hint ?

    I see you all selling your 35DSLR once you step into MF digital because it is so much better and I believe so indeed.
    But do you think these top DSLR compete with 120 film ?
    Behind this question : is it worth selling my 501 gear to move to let say the new 5D ?

    Thanks for your answers, will appreciate.

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by sinwen View Post
    But do you think these top DSLR compete with 120 film ?
    Behind this question : is it worth selling my 501 gear to move to let say the new 5D ?
    Oh boy, tough call and different for everybody based on their personal needs....

    I would first say it all depends on how much you shoot. If not a whole bunch, it might be more economical to buy a better film scanner --- like maybe a dedicated Minolta or Nikon MF film scanner?

    I think the 5D2 will probably at least equal the image quality of properly scanned 6x6 or 645 film, however larger MF formats like 6x7 and 6x9 may offer something more. Those film cameras are cheap and if you already own a good MF scanner, then might be a viable consideration if you don't shoot much...

    But, if you do the per-frame-captured cost analysis, the DSLR gets very cost-effective pretty quick. It's biggest advantage is its per-frame operating cost: Take the cost price of the DSLR minus its resale value over say 2 years, and then divide by the number of frames you'd expect to shoot over those two years. Even if it's only 1000 frames in 2 years, you can anticipate your $2700 5D will probably be worth around $1700 two years later, for a per-frame cost of $1. By contrast, MF film is what, $6/roll plus $6/ roll to process or $12 total for 12 frames --- so they'd be equal. Now if you move the DSLR captures up to 2000 over the 2 years, its per-frame cost drops to 50 cents, or half the cost of MF film...

    Cheers,
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  33. #833
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by sinwen View Post
    Could you give me a hint ?

    I see you all selling your 35DSLR once you step into MF digital because it is so much better and I believe so indeed.
    But do you think these top DSLR compete with 120 film ?
    Behind this question : is it worth selling my 501 gear to move to let say the new 5D ?

    Thanks for your answers, will appreciate.
    Sinwen, if you like to shoot a lot of frames and love low light photography then something like a 5D is a nice option.

    However, if you like to shoot the kind of images you posted, then stick with what you are doing because you're doing it very well.

    I shot a 5D for years ... and have always shot a 503CW with film, and still do.

    I'm not sure what the criteria people use when they say a DSLR can equal or beat a MF film camera. Whatever that criteria is, it isn't the same as mine ... because my 5D never equaled the Hasselblad film camera to my eye.

    I find most, if not all, 35mm DSLRs with CMOS sensors to be lacking in depth and tonal graduation ... and many, including the 5D, to produce a plastic look to the mages. Not until you jump to MF digital with CCD sensors do the files start to compete with MF film or beat it.

    Keep that Hassey, and save up for a CFV digital back. Then you can shoot both film and digital.

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    I agree with Marc -- for my money, 35mm digital cameras don't have the look of medium format film. To me, film looks better than digital regardless of format. End of story. But it just has a look that I like -- I like the tonal range, color palette and black and white tonality better. That said, digital is far more convenient, more flexible, it has higher resolution per image area used, it is more efficient and in many cases more cost effective. Furthermore, above ISO 400 (in 35mm digital anyway), digital trounces film. So I would say that if you are happy with the 501cm, stick with it. If you want the same thing, only digital, the 5D is not it.
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  35. #835
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    because my 5D never equaled the Hasselblad film camera to my eye.
    And for the record, I didn't say that either.

    What I did say is the 5D *2* will likely at least equal the image quality (resolution) of well-scanned 6x6 and 645, a very different statement than the saying 5D *original* does that now...

    Even at that, the tonality, look, feel, signature, palette, grain characteristics, halation and response curve will all be different between the mediums --- those differences may or may not be preferred over the "look" form the DSLR, but they are a different consideration than resolution.

    ~~~
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  36. #836
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Just my $.02, even given the fact the 5D2 has 21mp, and may equal a 120 film frame, there is still so much missing. For me, my 1Ds3 (also 21mp) could not hold a candle to my new MFDB, even if it was the same pixel resolution. These new Canon bodies, while they have huge great sensors, the rest of the "solution" betrays them, namely the lenses. If you head over to Fred Miranda and DPReview, there are constant threads battling about lens sharpness, lens-to-lens quality control issues, etc. So many people are fed up with Canon's dismal optics, that they move to adapters and using Nikon and Zeiss glass. Just something to keep in mind. A camera system on paper is very different than the reality, even with that pricey L glass.

  37. #837
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    And I agree that no current DSLR can come close to competing with a MFDB on IQ, including tonality --- at least on a single exposure. Stitching multiple frames is a different story.
    Jack
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    How do you get better tonality with stitching?
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    And for the record, I didn't say that either.

    What I did say is the 5D *2* will likely at least equal the image quality (resolution) of well-scanned 6x6 and 645, a very different statement than the saying 5D *original* does that now...

    Even at that, the tonality, look, feel, signature, palette, grain characteristics, halation and response curve will all be different between the mediums --- those differences may or may not be preferred over the "look" form the DSLR, but they are a different consideration than resolution.

    ~~~
    Yep, Jack. Agreed. Resolution is one thing, all rest that makes an image is another.

    IMO, the only thing that really counts is what the print looks like.

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Interesting side note on "Stitching".

    I'm way into MFD Stitching for commercial applications these days (still learning about it) ... most recent application was an axel testing Dynamometer room using multiple panning shots with the H3D-II/39 and HC/28mm. Not enough room to get back and use a longer focal length ... and the 28 was too wide causing too much regular W/A distortion. These shots will be potentially used for 6 to 10 foot wide wall graphics that will be viewed close up by engineers ... ( the ultimate pixel peepers? : -)

    My point is that stitching proves that we want, and sometimes need, even more resolution ... and full frame 645 with 65 megs or more isn't a ridiculous desire.

    Not exactly "fun with MF" being that it's hard work to do these under time constraints, really bad lighting and "factory" filth. I did learn something on this job ... I stitched processed DNGs straight from ACR and lost the DNG corrections available in Phocus ... resulting in some distortion in the crane rail at the back of the room. Next time I will go through Phocus and stitch the processed Tiffs with DAC applied. Ya learn something every day

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    First my name is Michel, sorry about that .

    Then I thanks you all for your answers. Saving for a digi-back is a good idea but it will take me a life time, so it isn't an option right now. Nonetheless I will follow Mark's advice and keep the 501. Decision of not making any move is quite easy particularly when I am not very enthusiastic about DSLR sizes and weight pretty similar to the 501, lenses being zoom zoom and the so many programs and buttons.

    One thing said is CCD seems better than CMOS is of high interest, I think Leica is using CCD, am I right ? They could well be the only manufacturer doing it in aps sensors.

  42. #842
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post

    IMO, the only thing that really counts is what the print looks like.
    Agreed. And on this front, I have prints from my 1DS2 (16MP) that easily equal the best I ever got from scanned MF film --- hence my comment that the 5D*2* will likely equal scanned MF .

    To carry this discussion one step further with a few minor points. I will also go on record saying that IMHO:

    1) 22 MP MF capture well exceeds anything I seen from any DSLR, including 21MP + AA filtered DSLR capture.

    2) 39 MP MF capture is almost (not quite, but very, very close) to being as good as a drum-scan of a perfectly executed 4x5 negative.

    Cheers,
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    This is interesting, it could be my inexperience, but 6x7 film still looks better to me than my 22mp MFDB. Perhaps I should do a real comparison to see if this is just my bias....
    My photos are here: http://www.stuartrichardson.com and more recent work here: http://stuartrichardson.tumblr.com/ Please have a look at my book!
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    AIX for Breakfast
    Attachment 8472
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    but 6x7 film still looks better to me than my 22mp MFDB.
    My whole point above is that I think one needs to define "better" for themselves.

    In *my* case I favored digital's relative lack of grain which was visible in even a 16x24 print from scanned MF Provia.

    I did however feel many of the film scans had smoother tonality than their DSLR equivalents.

    Tonality is an area where I feel MF digital capture, even 22MP, excels over DSLR capture, and in most cases I find it better than scanned MF. Conversely, I feel scanned 4x5 (or larger) exhibits smoother tonality than 39MP MF capture.

    Hope these clarify my preferences, and I respect that others feelings may be entirely different --
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Interesting side note on "Stitching".

    I'm way into MFD Stitching for commercial applications these days (still learning about it) ... most recent application was an axel testing Dynamometer room using multiple panning shots with the H3D-II/39 and HC/28mm. Not enough room to get back and use a longer focal length ... and the 28 was too wide causing too much regular W/A distortion. These shots will be potentially used for 6 to 10 foot wide wall graphics that will be viewed close up by engineers ... ( the ultimate pixel peepers? : -)

    My point is that stitching proves that we want, and sometimes need, even more resolution ... and full frame 645 with 65 megs or more isn't a ridiculous desire.

    Not exactly "fun with MF" being that it's hard work to do these under time constraints, really bad lighting and "factory" filth. I did learn something on this job ... I stitched processed DNGs straight from ACR and lost the DNG corrections available in Phocus ... resulting in some distortion in the crane rail at the back of the room. Next time I will go through Phocus and stitch the processed Tiffs with DAC applied. Ya learn something every day
    Hi Fotografz,
    I am also using a H3DII (but 22mp) with the HC 28mm (for a little while only) & just received a really right stuff pano head last week-end.
    I was amazed by the result of the first quick test I made: 6 pictures taken every 15 in a room with no 'room' to back-up.
    The big mistake I made: i was starting the 1st shot (and ending the last one) at the border of the frame so that I had to use the borders in the final composition. In my opinion there is just few distortion elsewhere in the picture because it is using the best part of each shot (DAC corrected in Phocus) but not for the extreme right and left sides of the picture.

    I just mention that because I have the same impression in looking at your picture.
    Now I know that for good stitched results with the 28mm, I need to start to shoot larger than the final frame. Obvious for some, lesson learned for me.

    (Don't look at the light, no care was taken to make a correct exposure)


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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Very interesting image (meaning I like it). Don't you just love the RRS pano gear!

    don
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Marc - that testing platform is one giant milling 'bed' - would be fascinating to see how they 'locked down' each side of the machine...

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Marc - that testing platform is one giant milling 'bed' - would be fascinating to see how they 'locked down' each side of the machine...
    Peter: It's actually just a foot tall model that Marc lit to make it look like a large real room and machine.


    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Very funny Jack

    I just love BIG stuff.

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