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Thread: Fun with MF images

  1. #201
    Senior Member JimCollum's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    a couple more from the Gladding McBean pottery factory


    Aptus 75s, Mamiya 645AFDII, Zeiss 40mm Distagon







    Aptus 75s, Mamiya 645AFDII, Mamiya 50mm shift (stitch)

  2. #202
    Subscriber Member KurtKamka's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Here's one as I was walking past the Moscone Center in San Francisco early this morning. All of the Apple Acolytes were lined up around the block to get into Apple's World Wide Developer's Conference to hear/see Steve Jobs introduce the next iPhone.

    Mamiya 150/3.5 @3.5, ISO 400.

    Kurt

  3. #203
    Subscriber robsteve's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Quote Originally Posted by JimCollum View Post
    a couple more from the Gladding McBean pottery factory


    Aptus 75s, Mamiya 645AFDII, Zeiss 40mm Distagon






    Aptus 75s, Mamiya 645AFDII, Mamiya 50mm shift (stitch)
    Jim:

    This looks like some sort of control with levers and foot pedals. What did it do?

  4. #204
    Senior Member JimCollum's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Quote Originally Posted by robsteve View Post
    Jim:

    This looks like some sort of control with levers and foot pedals. What did it do?
    if you look at this image





    and place yourself under the platform at the top of the hydraulic lift.. then turn left.. you'll see the chair in that image.

    This chair and controls are used to operate (used.. as in.. still being used).. a hydraulic lift that raises and lowers a very large extruder used to make clay piping.

  5. #205
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Cool shots Jim, are they HDR, or is that just the naturally high dynamic range of the MFDB? They sort of have the shadow/highlight filter look to them...

    This is a town called Gjogv in the Faroe Islands. It was with the Mamiya 7 and 43mm lens. It was color film, but converted to BW. It's small on the web, but the scan is 9100x7200...with plenty more detail to spare, but that is all the scanner will go up to (3200dpi).


  6. #206
    Senior Member JimCollum's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    Cool shots Jim, are they HDR, or is that just the naturally high dynamic range of the MFDB? They sort of have the shadow/highlight filter look to them...
    nope..no HDR. light's a bit weird.. most were 10-30 second exposures.. and a mix of distant sodium, mercury, tungsten, and daylight

    that, and i usually look for fairly monochromatic and low contrast scenes

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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Oh, and here is a 100% crop, no sharpening. It would probably be sharper with a film like Acros...this was just Provia 100F. By the way, I am not trying prove anything like film is better than MFDB...they are different animals. I am sure MFDB creams film for resolution and sharpness, I am just always impressed at how great a negative the Mamiya 7II will put out.


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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Thanks for the answer Jim. It must be the dust or something. It gives the image that flatness that certain HDR images have in their midtones -- it is sort of a "this is not your slide film with a 4 stop range" type of look.

  9. #209
    Senior Member JimCollum's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Yea.. the Mamiya 7II was probably one of my favorite cameras to use.. lightweight, quiet, and fantastic lenses

    a couple Trix shots from the 43mm lens and Mamiya 7II







  10. #210
    Senior Member JimCollum's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    Thanks for the answer Jim. It must be the dust or something. It gives the image that flatness that certain HDR images have in their midtones -- it is sort of a "this is not your slide film with a 4 stop range" type of look.
    yea.. even with film, i'm a color negative sort of guy.. one of the reasons i like the MF backs as well as the Betterlight scanning back.. they have that extended range that you don't see with either slide film or DSLR's. One of the reason I chose the Aptus 75 was the similarity in tone, color and contrast to some of the color negative films

  11. #211
    Senior Member bensonga's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Jim and Stuart,

    I am truly in awe of the images you have posted....both the color and BW.....they are incredible. Thanks for sharing these!

    Gary Benson

  12. #212
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    From a portrait session yesterday. Not exactly my genre but it pays the bills.

    Rollei 6008AF, Sinar e54LV, 150mm PQS lens at f4, iso 100, 1/60.


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    Re: Fun with MF images

    I was walking out my front door after some wind and rain.. and saw this leaf.. so i took out my leaf/H2 and macro and started taking some shots. A few months later with my H3DII-31 staged this leaf image...

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    Re: Fun with MF images

    "From a portrait session yesterday. Not exactly my genre but it pays the bills."

    There is something to be said for providing people with nice photos that will keep them happy for a long time. I do freelance portraits from time to time too, and while doing it rarely allows you to reinvent the wheel, it does allow you to make a family happy and give them some memories, so it is fine. You get bills paid, and they get some memories. Everyone wins.

    Nice capture too.

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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Nice leaf Mark. I am already waiting for the fall...too hot here in New York for me. Your shots remind me a little of this one I took in Japan a few years ago...I had no tripod and the 110/2, so I had to use it wide open...obviously yours are much better executed!


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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Stuart nice... I was fortunate being at home and having the tripod handy.
    I was on the east coast 6 or 7 times during the last 12 months and the last two NYC and Boston weather was nice. I got in and out just as the warming up but not the heat wave... Hot in bay area-- mid 80s but nice and cool at night.. and almost no humidity

  17. #217
    Samuel Axelsson
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    "From a portrait session yesterday. Not exactly my genre but it pays the bills."

    There is something to be said for providing people with nice photos that will keep them happy for a long time. I do freelance portraits from time to time too, and while doing it rarely allows you to reinvent the wheel, it does allow you to make a family happy and give them some memories, so it is fine. You get bills paid, and they get some memories. Everyone wins.

    Nice capture too.
    I agree, I also like this type of shooting. Very emotional and special.
    One of mine (a job too):


  18. #218
    Workshop Member Woody Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images

    Summer storm. H3d-39 HC80x3.

    Attachment 5535

    A crop

    Attachment 5536

  19. #219
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    The other thread was getting long so I decided to start a part 2...

    Jim Collum and I met at the Sutro ruins this morning for an early shoot. The light went bad fast, but there was about 20 minutes of some decent early morning shooting. I am still learning how to process the Phase files so these are probably not optimal, but at least have figured out enpough where I can pretty much display what I saw. All shots were at f8 or f11 and ISO 50 or 100, and fairly long exposures, tripod of course. These first two are with the 55 lens:





    These next two are with the 35 lens:





    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: So what are you shooting with that MF back?

    Sutro ruins?

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    Re: So what are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Sutro ruins?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutro_Baths



    Beautiful images, Jack.

  22. #222
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: So what are you shooting with that MF back?

    Lovely series, but I thought we already had the "fun with MF images" thread.

  23. #223
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: So what are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by foto-z View Post
    Lovely series, but I thought we already had the "fun with MF images" thread.
    We did, but I figured it was getting long enough it was loading slower, so maybe time to start a fresh one? I can easily merge them if folks feel better about having them all in one spot.

    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  24. #224
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: So what are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Allyn View Post
    Thanks Dale -- for both the reference and the compliment
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  25. #225
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Nice bud. You got the nice weather , i got to fry my butt off this morning . Yuks.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Wow, Jack, these are amazing. The subtle colors were made to be captured by MF.

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    very nice shots, Sutro never looked so good!

  28. #228
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Thanks guys. Was a lot of fun to finally get out and just shoot some "real" images with my new baby! The light was soft and pastel to begin with and there was a light layer of fog blowing in and out which added to the effect.
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Nice shots, Jack. I too love those deep color to pastel gradients. Provides a very interesting look for sure.

    Question for you, and others: Do any of you guys ever shoot a reference frame for WB, either custom while shooting, or for post processing? Not saying that there is anything wrong with these, or that others have posted, but was just thinking about this more. No need for a full MacBeth color checker, just a WhiBal or some other good neutral gray.

    That would at least provide a good balanced starting point, and then one can tint, warm, cool or whatever to taste, and still have a good neutral WB if needed. (I was thinking about this from Guy's other posts that had the early morning light and the conversion set on Flash or something. Trust me, I am not a slave to WB, and Jack's shots convey a wonderful mood. I just have been thinking about it more lately as folks have been talking about software, conversions, etc.

    LJ

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by LJL View Post
    Nice shots, Jack. I too love those deep color to pastel gradients. Provides a very interesting look for sure.

    Question for you, and others: Do any of you guys ever shoot a reference frame for WB, either custom while shooting, or for post processing? Not saying that there is anything wrong with these, or that others have posted, but was just thinking about this more. No need for a full MacBeth color checker, just a WhiBal or some other good neutral gray.

    That would at least provide a good balanced starting point, and then one can tint, warm, cool or whatever to taste, and still have a good neutral WB if needed. (I was thinking about this from Guy's other posts that had the early morning light and the conversion set on Flash or something. Trust me, I am not a slave to WB, and Jack's shots convey a wonderful mood. I just have been thinking about it more lately as folks have been talking about software, conversions, etc.

    LJ
    I'm new to MFDB (Phase P25+) and this is something that I'm playing with. I have been a bit surprised by the white balance of images as first opened in C-1 or ACR/Bridge. Auto WB is not looking to be useful to me, but Daylight seems better. I have included a reference in some testing/learning shots and this makes for easy work. Of course, some scenes provide their own "gray card".

    I did some indoor stuff under fluorescent light for which I made a quick custom white balance setting, shooting a white sheet of paper, and the result was as near perfect as one could hope for IMO. With the Phase back, generating a custom white balance reference is the easiest I've ever experienced. And fast.

    Bradley mentioned of his new Hy6 Sinar that the WB was as wonky as he'd come to expect with MFDB (my wording) and I found this comforting (along with other readings and observations) as I saw the earliest files out my new back. In my experience, Canon and Nikon have white balance far more perfected as the files roll off the camera.

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Dale

    At least with my H3DII-39 I find that shooting at a fixed Kelvin of 4900 gets me to a really good starting point for most outdoor files. Of course some tweaking is required (as it is for all settings e.g. daylight, cloudy, shade etc) but it is usually pretty small.

    Just my humble experience

    Woody

  32. #232
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Good question LJ.

    Most folks are probably aware the proper WB goes a LONG way to helping on getting a good exposure to begin with, so it is important to be at least in the ballpark from the start. I have found AWB accurate enough for good exposure -- at least with my Mamiya AFD2 and P45+ combo -- but often not to my liking for absolute color. So when I have time, I do create a custom WB and use that. However, for almost all my "outdoor" landscape shooting color is subjective anyway, and I find the default "Daylight" closer than Auto most of the time. In post, I''ll use it as-is or can tweak it if desired. FWIW, I used it as-is in the above series since that's exactly what the light looked like.

    For the custom WB I use two methods. One is the Capture Integration translucent WB card -- under $20 from CI and you use it kind of like an expo disc. The other is a holdover from my Betterlight scan back days and is the Betterlight digital Gray card. This card is NOT a typical 18% gray card but lighter in tone, non-reflective and for whatever reason works exceptionally well with digital sensors. It's under $20 too and can be bought directly from Betterlight. Lastly, I do carry a mini McBeth in my bag at all times as well, so if I'm really concerned I can drop it in any image for a more perfect color correction later. (The McBeth is ridiculously expensive for the amount I use it, but when you need it, you need it...)

    Cheers,
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    Dale

    At least with my H3DII-39 I find that shooting at a fixed Kelvin of 4900 gets me to a really good starting point for most outdoor files. Of course some tweaking is required (as it is for all settings e.g. daylight, cloudy, shade etc) but it is usually pretty small.

    Just my humble experience

    Woody
    Woody,

    Thanks for this tip. I'll play with that and see how it compares to other settings.

    One thing I have learned (and Jack alludes to in his post) is that proper exposure contributes heavily to WB in these backs (or at least mine). The histogram is not as easy to read as with DSLRs and the metering is sufficiently different that I simply need a bit more time with it to avoid single channel clipping. Also, scenes which are quite contrasty (not my normal shooting subjects, but have been part of my practice stuff this week) seem to result in less accurate WB for me even those which are well exposed.

    When I say "the metering is sufficiently different" I mean in the way my Mamiya meters a scene in comparison to say, my Canons. It's just a matter of learning the quirks of the system and that's coming along fine. I appreciate that these topics come up in the forum.

  34. #234
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Dale and Jack,
    Thanks for your thoughts. I was not asking to be critical, and you guys understood that part, which is great. My thoughts have been that folks have been getting themselves in a bit of a twist on color issues when they are testing their new backs or systems, and the easiest leveling element is to do a WB and exposure check for openers.

    Hey, I am just like everybody else....cannot wait to get shooting with the new stuff ;-) What I have found, especially shooting with the M8 and even my Canons, is that WB is not always correct nor neutral. For specific effect, that is not an issue, as in Jack's shots. Those convey a mood and time that do match what he wanted to capture.

    Like Jack, I do carry a few things in the bag all the time too. My problem is not getting into the habit of using them more often :-( I can always pull stuff to where it needs to be or where I want it to be, but when shooting a lot, I have found that some shots get overlooked when sorting through them because my WB was off and I may be too lazy to fix them at the time.

    Really did not mean to take this off topic. It has just become something that I again am starting to pay more attention to for my own shooting, rather than trusting the conversion algorithms or the camera. My Canons are pretty spot on for AWB, and the fixes to the M8 have made a huge difference. I was just getting the impression that the MFDBs, may be a bit more sensitive or spotty on AWB, so either knowing to shoot at something else, or doing a custom WB or taking a frame would be good.

    Jack, I agree on the color checkers. I have them, and they are worth it when you need it, but find that a good black/gray/white card or small reflector actually works wonderfully, as it gets both the WB and helps you set the black and white peaks on the exposure side so you do not blow things out or crush the blacks. These MFDBs seem to be very much more accommodating there, and that is wonderful.

    LJ

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    wow.. those are really nice...

  36. #236
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Thanks Mark!
    Jack
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Jack were any of these images taken with shifting???

  38. #238
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by mark1958 View Post
    Jack were any of these images taken with shifting???
    Mark, these were all straight shots with the Mamiya, no shifting.
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  39. #239
    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Very nice!
    -bob

  40. #240
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Jack,
    I can't wait to see these on my big monitor when I get home tomorrow night. They look great and you know how I like early morning blue skies. I especially like the pinkish reflections in the still water.

    And yes, this does make me miss San Francisco and living on the left coast.
    Last edited by Terry; 21st June 2008 at 17:32.

  41. #241
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Thanks Bob and Terry! And Terry, you know what shot of yours inspired me on these! LOLOLOLOL!!!
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  42. #242
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    PS: Wanted to add another point I think is really important for this back -- the raw processor!

    Lightroom and ACR for whatever reason render exposures that are sometimes all over the place, often by as much as 2 stops -- while C1 on the same images is spot-on. I found other minor issues with color or fringing using LR/ACR too, so I have pretty much dedicated C1 as my converter of choice for my Phase files. The good news is I like C1's workflow!

    Old news, but it may bear repeating: I think any MF shooter needs to test the different converters and find the best for their particular back -- just because one works on your files and you like the workflow, does not mean it will give you the most from your file.

    FWIW,
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    PS: Wanted to add another point I think is really important for this back -- the raw processor!

    Lightroom and ACR for whatever reason render exposures that are sometimes all over the place, often by as much as 2 stops -- while C1 on the same images is spot-on. I found other minor issues with color or fringing using LR/ACR too, so I have pretty much dedicated C1 as my converter of choice for my Phase files. The good news is I like C1's workflow!

    Old news, but it may bear repeating: I think any MF shooter needs to test the different converters and find the best for their particular back -- just because one works on your files and you like the workflow, does not mean it will give you the most from your file.

    FWIW,


    So glad that you brought this point out.....again! Cannot agree with you more. Although LR/ACR may be helpful in the workflow, they are not the finest tuned converters around, despite their widespread use. They are not bad, but they also tend to lull us into a convenient mediocrity (for lack of a better word, and I know that will draw flames.....sorry), when something more clumsy, like C1 or Phocus or others, actually do a much better job.

    I think I feel a new wave of workflow rethinking coming on for many

    LJ

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    PS: Wanted to add another point I think is really important for this back -- the raw processor!

    Lightroom and ACR for whatever reason render exposures that are sometimes all over the place, often by as much as 2 stops -- while C1 on the same images is spot-on. I found other minor issues with color or fringing using LR/ACR too, so I have pretty much dedicated C1 as my converter of choice for my Phase files. The good news is I like C1's workflow!

    Old news, but it may bear repeating: I think any MF shooter needs to test the different converters and find the best for their particular back -- just because one works on your files and you like the workflow, does not mean it will give you the most from your file.

    FWIW,
    I'll echo Jack and LJ here. It is abundantly clear to me that C-1 is the best first stop for Phase files. Unlike Jack, I do not like the C-1 workflow, or at least parts of it, and I miss some tools which are present in ACR (don't like LR either though, I normally use Bridge/ACR so you might understand why I don't care for the C-1 feel).

    For me, ACR is indeed inconsistent in processing the P25+ files, and renders exposure and WB differently than does C-1. And, as I better learn the use of the tools available in C-1, I expect that the ones I miss from ACR (or the methods of their use) will be less important to me. Though I do wish that C-1 was not so mouse/slider dependent and allowed for more adjustments via tabs, arrow keys, shift + arrow keys, etc.

    Something that I found interesting was that color temperature for the same file, set to "As Shot", is rendered to a different kelvin value in C-1 3.7.8 than it is in 4.1.1. Just a curiosity indicating tweaks of various subtleties in the new version.

    Edit to add: I would expect that one would see an improvement to the results from ACR if the one did an ACR calibration for the back. I have not done this. I'm comfortable with the notion that C-1 has the edge for now.

  45. #245
    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    OK, what to use for organization...
    I agree that lightroom is the pits with the Phase files.
    I am about to try something like a processing in C1 to dng or tif with output to a hot folder in lightroom.
    Fasten your seat belts...
    I wonder what lightroom will do with the pre-processed files...
    -bob

  46. #246
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Some follow up. When I say I like C1 workflow, I am referring to 4.1 over 3.7.9 and am assuming 4 Pro will allow for some better customization of menus and presets. As of now, my LR library is history and I say good riddance. I had so many historical images that were not yet imported into it and I was so dreading the time required to get it all current, I kept defaulting back to my original storage structure anyway. So for me it's basically a blessing not to have to deal with it! LOLOLOL!
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  47. #247
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    OK, what to use for organization...
    I agree that lightroom is the pits with the Phase files.
    I am about to try something like a processing in C1 to dng or tif with output to a hot folder in lightroom.
    Fasten your seat belts...
    I wonder what lightroom will do with the pre-processed files...
    -bob
    Well, if you were on a Mac, I would say Aperture could solve that problem. I routinely drag finished PSD files into it alongside the RAW shots just to catalog things and keep them organized. Aperture does not do anything with respect to processing, converting or adjusting things, unless I want to do that, and then it creates a version for me to work on. I would think LR would do the same, but honestly, I really have not used it since the first demo came out, so I know not what it does there. (Bridge/ACR can be configured to NOT open JPEGs and TIFFs in ACR, but it will open DNGs in ACR, as that is still considered a RAW file format that "needs" to be processed.) In Aperture, DNGs are treated as RAW files also, but you do not have to do any processing of them. Only issue that remains unclear is if it would handle the Phase files or not. I know it handles the TIFF files I bring in, but have not tried a DNG conversion from C1 or someplace else.

    LJ

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    Senior Member EH21's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    I've seen the fringes too on my p20 files in lightroom - they disappear when I open the file in C1. Actually C1-DB 3.78 is better than C1 4.1 in this regard at least in my experience. There are a few instances when I have preferred the LR conversions but only a handful in thousands of images.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    PS: Wanted to add another point I think is really important for this back -- the raw processor!

    Lightroom and ACR for whatever reason render exposures that are sometimes all over the place, often by as much as 2 stops -- while C1 on the same images is spot-on. I found other minor issues with color or fringing using LR/ACR too, so I have pretty much dedicated C1 as my converter of choice for my Phase files. The good news is I like C1's workflow!

    Old news, but it may bear repeating: I think any MF shooter needs to test the different converters and find the best for their particular back -- just because one works on your files and you like the workflow, does not mean it will give you the most from your file.

    FWIW,

  49. #249
    Subscriber Member KurtKamka's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Too much talking and not enough images ...

    Kurt

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Kurt, looks like you climbed a pole to take that shot. Very cool perspective.

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