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Thread: Fun with MF images

  1. #401
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Woody. I did used a 3 stop ND and a polarizer to slow the shutter speed. In a couple of photos I used two 3 stop ND filters but I not in this one. Since moving to the hassey system, I find myself not wanting to use a polarizer as often for the skies. I think it is more helpful for slowing the shutter and/or reducing the reflection off water. In fact, I am using the graduated ND less often as well or at least starting to realize i do not need as often.

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Here is one more from a little farther back. None of these images were cropped... Just resized.

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Mark,

    Thanks for posting your fine images. I'm jealous of the greenery and clouds in the sky there in Snowmass. We're arid, smoky and cloudless here in the Sierra foothills.

    I'm about to add more ND filters to my kit as those that I currently have are rather large (77mm and 82mm). Care to share which you have opted for with your Hasseblad kit? Using round threaded or square plates, etc? And is there a brand that you've had better luck with?

    Cheers,

    Dale

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    I have been using the Lee 4x6 and 4x4 square filters. There is a Lee holder that connects via different adapter rings. I have a ring for each lens diameter. Moreover, you can get a holder on the front of the Lee holder that allows for a 105mm circular filter (e.g. polarizer). So one set for each. The only problem i have is that the 95mm adapter ring vignettes with the 28mm lens. I need to see if they make a special wide angle ring. I suspect the vignetting will be worse on the hassy 39 or 22.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Allyn View Post
    Mark,

    Thanks for posting your fine images. I'm jealous of the greenery and clouds in the sky there in Snowmass. We're arid, smoky and cloudless here in the Sierra foothills.

    I'm about to add more ND filters to my kit as those that I currently have are rather large (77mm and 82mm). Care to share which you have opted for with your Hasseblad kit? Using round threaded or square plates, etc? And is there a brand that you've had better luck with?

    Cheers,

    Dale

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Thank you, Mark. I have a holder as well, and was trying to decide if I wanted to get more adapter rings or just go with round filters in the sizes I don't have. I find advantages with both approaches and I appreciate you sharing what you're doing.

    I don't have a 28mm, so don't currently face the vignetting issue you describe.

    I'll probably order some adapter rings and save some money for now, rather than buying more threaded filters. I don't always carry my holder because of bulk, but I need to change that.

    Thanks again.

    Quote Originally Posted by mark1958 View Post
    I have been using the Lee 4x6 and 4x4 square filters. There is a Lee holder that connects via different adapter rings. I have a ring for each lens diameter. Moreover, you can get a holder on the front of the Lee holder that allows for a 105mm circular filter (e.g. polarizer). So one set for each. The only problem i have is that the 95mm adapter ring vignettes with the 28mm lens. I need to see if they make a special wide angle ring. I suspect the vignetting will be worse on the hassy 39 or 22.

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Dale in the end I find that you have less stuff with the adapter system. You have your square/rectangular filters and one circular polarizer and with the adapter rings you can use any combo with any lens. The 105mm CP is expensive though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Allyn View Post
    Thank you, Mark. I have a holder as well, and was trying to decide if I wanted to get more adapter rings or just go with round filters in the sizes I don't have. I find advantages with both approaches and I appreciate you sharing what you're doing.

    I don't have a 28mm, so don't currently face the vignetting issue you describe.

    I'll probably order some adapter rings and save some money for now, rather than buying more threaded filters. I don't always carry my holder because of bulk, but I need to change that.

    Thanks again.

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Mark, I'm sure you're right. I have been in the field with an incomplete filter set and, of course, wanted to use the only lens for which I had no filters.

    I use CPL for controlling reflections on water mostly and haven't priced the 105mm of which you write. I may just schlep the CPLs I have and use them separately from the holder if I don't need to stack with NDs, etc. What I really need to do is to re-build my whole filter kit with better efficiency in mind. I currently have stuff from 58mm to 82mm in various flavors, together with a holder for Grad ND, etc. Probably time to rethink it.

    Quote Originally Posted by mark1958 View Post
    Dale in the end I find that you have less stuff with the adapter system. You have your square/rectangular filters and one circular polarizer and with the adapter rings you can use any combo with any lens. The 105mm CP is expensive though.

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Mark,
    Those are spectacular captures... the best I've seen you post. Bravo !!

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    David Thanks.. Perhaps it was worth almost getting killed to find this spot. Really horrible driving ---

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    Re: Greetings from Colorado

    What post-processing did you do?

    These are wonderful images.

    Quote Originally Posted by mark1958 View Post
    I am attending a meeting in Snowmass CO but have had a chance to get out and do some shooting with my Hasselblad. Both of these taken with H3DII-31 and 28mm lens

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    An image from last week while walking through Washington DC. This is with the out-dated 150/3.4 at f8. It's a shame it isn't sharp enough.

    Kurt

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Thanks... I converted the Hasselblad RAW images in Phocus. I turned off all sharpening. I do not believe I did much else in Phocus. I then opened in CS3. The did minor curves and had to clone the edges to get rid of the vignetting due to the filter ring. The only other thing I did was I had to lighten the mill structure a bit because it was too dark. In a separate layer I used a low opacity brush in overlay and painted over the structure to get the shadow detail to come out. Then I just sharpened the whole image. I could have done more selective sharpening. I really did not do too much to this image. I took the shot of the mill from many different angles and as many positions as I could. I wanted to go down to a lower level. Although some kids made it down the hill, I was less willing to chance the climb down. It had rained a bit and the soil was wet. I was also alone and quite far from a hospital.. or camera repair shop.

    Here are a few more from the trip
    Quote Originally Posted by rweissman View Post
    What post-processing did you do?

    These are wonderful images.
    Last edited by mark1958; 10th August 2008 at 13:58.

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Very nice series Mark!
    Jack
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Nice shots Mark! I've been doing more mundane stuff, getting a sense of how the ZD back handles long exposures and late light. Here's one from Fort Funston tonight; 10 (or 8?) seconds, f/16. 210mm lens. I too use the Lee shades, except not for this particular shot; the sun had set since a while so didn't really need more than the built in, plus large shades tend to catch wind...


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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Jack and Jan... thanks... Jan.. nice shot there. The one limitation of the hassy back is the limit of exposure time to to 32 seconds or so. So far not a problem for me..

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Mamiya ZD using the IR Photo filter, and the Mamiya 35mm lens
    Fall Creek, Felton, Ca.















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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Jim, these were probably perfectly adequate woodland images until you employed the IR Photo Filter. Sorry, but I can't for the life of me see that IR brings anything at all to these images, in fact they simply look rather like poorly processed colour images.

    More often than not less is more.

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by KurtKamka View Post
    An image from last week while walking through Washington DC. This is with the out-dated 150/3.4 at f8. It's a shame it isn't sharp enough.

    Kurt
    Kurt, I think it's an excellent capture. Composition is great and I like the way you caught the flag blowing in the wind. I do wrestle with that sharpness issue myself (even started a thread devoted to the question). If you didn't use a tripod that could certainly be a factor. I'd estimate I use a tripod over 90% of the time with MF and less than 10% with 35mm. I've even moved up to the Gitzo 5540LS (probably overkill) just to get every last bit of stability. Adding a little more pop to this image and converting to sRGB before posting can go a long way in making it look sharper.
    Last edited by David K; 12th August 2008 at 03:22.

  19. #419
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    Jim, these were probably perfectly adequate woodland images until you employed the IR Photo Filter. Sorry, but I can't for the life of me see that IR brings anything at all to these images, in fact they simply look rather like poorly processed colour images.

    More often than not less is more.
    By IR Photo Filter, i mean the the physical IR pass filter (it allows both visible and IR light to reach the ZD sensor).. so there's really very little post processing.

    But you're right. I take this walk (about a 3-4 mile loop) 4 or 5 times a week. Sometimes I take a camera (ok.. most times .. and usually i just 'sketch' with it. The ones I posted were from a walk with the ZD capturing IR images.

    I've take shots with the Aptus 75 & Horseman



    (too much color for my taste.. i prefer more the look of faded color negatives


    and the M8




    so far, the M8 shots are my favorite, and i'm putting those together for a more comprehensive collection.


    http://www.jcollum.com/fallcreek

    This set isn't finished yet.. there are some that need to be edited out, as well as some more I've taken that need to be added.

    Appreciate the feedback. I'm glad you took the time to comment (I don't like those.. with a reason, is typically better than a blind 'nice pic')

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Hi Jim, yes, much prefer the M8 shot, captures and enhances the power of these wonderful ancient beasts.

    Keith

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    The M8 is 'nice' - but lacks the depth of the MF shots. You want some depth in a landscape - by definition.

  22. #422
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Depth? Love to know what depth is, and by definition why I would want some in a landscape?

    Sounds rather like a rule out of the "how to take photographs" manual.

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    Depth? Love to know what depth is, and by definition why I would want some in a landscape?

    Sounds rather like a rule out of the "how to take photographs" manual.
    One of the many things that Landscapes typically deal with is the notion of depth - the play of near versus far or near versus further. How the eye is drawn from one place to the next from near to far or near to further - thats depth.

    However my comment was not a comment about landscapes in general - I was merely stating the obvious - the shot immediately above the M8 shot has far more 'depth' than the shot made by the M8 - for all sorts of reasons.

    As for what you would want in a landscape or not - well how would I know? and why would I care to comment anyway? Your preferences are yours and you are welcome to them.

  24. #424
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    I'll go out on a limb here (pardon the pun, and it won't be my last :-)

    Jim's IR shots may lack the immediacy of the "punchier" M8 shot ... yet they grow on you.

    They have a lazy, relaxed, even "muffled footsteps" feel to them ... I've seen a million landscapes/forests like the M8 shot ... lots of surface whack, but no stamina ... perfect for the quick internet glance then on to the next "eye whack," then the next. Which is why I am rarely a fan of landscape work ... so many are so ... well ... artificial. The IR shots I haven't seen ... or I should say, "haven't felt" to often."

    Another aspect about them, (especially if they were printed large,) is that I feel as If I could be there ... they don't mentally trigger "photograph," instead I'm oddly struck by the lack of the wind ever so lightly rustling the leaves, or distant birds chirping. Perhaps why a Cezzanne feels more real than an academically correct landscape painting.

    Jim, personally I think you should explore this further. I am a fan of your "quiet places" work and these landscapes continue that notion so well.

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    I think I am with Keith here, to be honest. They just didn't do it for me. Jim, I liked your more urban landscapes better. I feel like these are sort of "everything and nothing". The frames are very busy with leaves, branches, detail and texture, but there is nothing that truly jumps out at me. I think photographing in the forest is very difficult for this reason -- your eye goes to something and you want to photograph it, but there are so many distractions around it that are easy to ignore when you are there, but when they are photographed it is difficult to ignore. I don't want to pull Keith's images into this if he does not want them in the discussion, but if you go to his website, there are some photos that demonstrate what I am getting at. For example, if you go to trees, plants and fungi, that first image of the fallen tree in the wood anemones -- it is fantastic, but one of the reasons it is successful is that there are not many competing elements. You have the greens, whites, and the orange/browns of the wood. The composition is excellent and there is very little extraneous in the frame...nothing to distract. Many of his photos are like this -- carefully composed, backgrounds well in hand. They are worth studying. I don't mean to pick on you by any means. I am only saying this because I think you are very skilled and can understand this criticism and make an intelligent decision as to whether to act on it or just take it in stride and keep on working. Again, I think you are very good, so don't take this as a put down, they were just my thoughts in relation to this genre of photography. I have struggled in this same field...I grew up in New England with dense forests. Moving to Iceland was the best idea I had...no trees to worry about!
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    IME, folks seem to either like the lower saturation, less accurate color of false-color IR or not at all --- not too many fall casually in-between. Also, I usually find that folks who like the Velvia look or heavy digital saturation to their images won't like the color IR look at all...

    Marc makes a good point that the landscape market seems to be saturated (excuse this pun too) with highly saturated landscape prints, and I assume this is because the masses that actually purchase work prefer them and so they sell better. However, what I see form my small-scale end, is that the prints our workshop attendees actually get orders for and sell, are the ones I refer to as containing "quiet light" --- or the softer saturation, more monochromatic color images, and false color IR seems to be leading this trend.

    Cheers,
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    I think it's safe to say that Jim has found a style that's to his liking. I recall him saying somewhere that it's how he sees the world. I think Marc's observation about feeling as if you could be there is right on the money. I've done some walking through the woods myself and, with respect to the image with the arched branches, feel like I've been right there a hundred times. With regard to my own landscapes, mostly taken early or late, which frequently include clouds and water, I like to bring out those subtle colors in the sky with a bit of saturation. Different strokes...

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Jack touches on a great point here, and one which I discuss with other friends often. That is the point of high-saturation landscapes and the marketability thereof. In our private conversations (only private because we are speaking among a group of friends of like attitude, not really "private") we lament the direction that it seems the market goes when it comes to landscape images which sell. The pumped up, or "juiced" as I often call them, images get loads of oohs and ahhs and sales orders – at least sales orders to the "masses" in a manner of speaking.

    I'm a fan of rather conservative processing (not saying I always achieve what I hope), and really shy away from images that strike me like a scene from CSI Miami. I also find that I'm not a huge Velvia fan, though I have seen work done with it that I liked.

    That said, I really do like Jim's work, though of the recent postings in this thread I prefer the style of the image in post #201 above, to the M8 example here and those on Jim's site. All are very nice to view, but I don't find his example with the Horseman above to be pumped up at all. Maybe it is, I don't know, but it looks like many walks I have been on and I love the "depth". Sure, it's a very busy shot and that may be a distraction for some, but for me the two limbs/trunks bending over and the pathway are strong enough to carry it.

    I like what Jim does, but the IR style is not one that I'm drawn to, at least not in quantity. Sometimes this kind of image can hit me as if an effort to salvage an image with an avant-garde tweak that didn't otherwise work. Please don't misunderstand that to mean that this is what I'm saying has been done. I know that they were shot with purpose and to a style that was in the eye of the photographer. It's just a personal thing.

    Jim, I really enjoy seeing your images, Horseman, color, landscape, urban, or IR. Thanks for sharing your work here. It continues to humble me.

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    I have to say it's refreshing to see people here discussing images rather than cameras and image quality.

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    I have to agree Keith.... I'd prefer a discussion over what does and doesn't work for someone in an image, rather than just hearing the 'nice pic'.. or 'look.. no CA'

    I do appreciate everyone that's participated in this...

    A couple of my early influences when I started were Eliot Porter and Richard Misrach. With Porter, I've always been attracted to the 'ordered' chaos he was able to capture.. and it's very similar to the way I see the world (to the dismay of my wife

    When I walk thru a forest, I see the seemingly random tangle of branches, leaves, light... and in this tangle, there sometimes arises an 'order' beneath it. When an image works for me, is when I'm able to see and then capture some of this underlying order... there's some chord that's struck that's very hard to put into words. Often I'm the only one who sees it (i know.. there's medication for this.... ) but often I find an individual or two who might see the world in the same way. For someone who sees the world in an 'orderly' fashion.. these images can be.. distressing.. for want of a better word. Jack may be able to better describe that.. he tends to see the world in a much more orderly manner than me (maybe the word is just 'messy'

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimCollum View Post
    Jack may be able to better describe that.. he tends to see the world in a much more orderly manner than me
    Jack is also OCD...

    Jack
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    I'm guessing that my garage looks more like Jim's than it does Jack's. I'm not sure which disorder(s) I have, but ORDER is not one of them.


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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Having spent many years wandering aimlessly amongst the ancient woodlands of southern England, hugging trees and banging my head against them in frustration, I've come to the conclusion that the only way I can realise my goal is to attempt to bring a sense of order to what is essentially a chaotic environment.

    OCD rules!

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    I had the pleasure of viewing some of Jim Collum's prints at the Moab workshop and they are gorgeous in their own right. Personally, I've stumbled along with a more saturated perspective. here is one using the 205TCC, 40mm and CFV. I am particularly fond of the range and depth of color and the abstract composition. the colors themselves are as important to me as the image

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    I had the pleasure of viewing some of Jim Collum's prints at the Moab workshop and they are gorgeous in their own right. Personally, I've stumbled along with a more saturated perspective. here is one using the 205TCC, 40mm and CFV. I am particularly fond of the range and depth of color and the abstract composition. the colors themselves are as important to me as the image
    You aren't shooting natural landscapes ... which is what this discussion has been centered on John. I LOVE your stuff, especially the saturated color and sense of design ... which is enhanced by being square IMHO.

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    "You aren't shooting natural landscapes..."

    Now there's an interesting concept Marc, "natural landscapes". Thankfully the Gods didn't give us a colour chart.



    A few minutes prior to taking this shot the scene appeared as almost monochrome. At the point of capture the scene appeared pretty much as shown. A few minutes after taking this shot the scene was light by strong sunlight.

    Natural or unnatural?
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Beautiful capture, Keith. Living in Florida I no longer have the pleasure of seeing those fall colors and I sure miss them.

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Thought I'd take the big gun out for a spin yesterday... with the two 1.4x mutars stacked on the Hassy 350 SA it's nearly a 700mm focal length. Couldn't make up my mind whether I should have mounted the camera to the tripod with the lens hanging off or the way it's shown. Maybe I need two tripods for this setup

  39. #439
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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    That is some serious camera porn!
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Man-o-man David ... I'd want an armed guard with that kit. Dead serious cash sitting on that tripod.

    Nice candid shot, what aperture was that?

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Marc, that shot was wide open, which is f/5.6 on that lens, figure you lose one stop for each of the mutars, which would bring it to f/16. I don't think that gets you the DOF of f/16 though... not sure about that. As far as the armed guard, I know what you mean... kind of ridiculous when you think it's worth twice the value of the vehicle I drove there with.

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    Beautiful capture, Keith. Living in Florida I no longer have the pleasure of seeing those fall colors and I sure miss them.
    Thanks David, appreciated.

    The capture was finally achieved after visiting the location many times over a period of years. When I arrived the entire scene was enveloped by a blanket of thick fog. This exposure was taken as the fog was being rapidly burnt off by the rising sun but before the scene had become impossibly contrasty.

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    David

    I think that if you mounted it with the camera attached to the tripod either the lens mount would have broken off or the front heavy would have the lens buried up to the first Mutar in the sand LOL!

    Woody

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    David

    I think that if you mounted it with the camera attached to the tripod either the lens mount would have broken off or the front heavy would have the lens buried up to the first Mutar in the sand LOL!

    Woody
    Just for the heck of it I determined the "teeter totter" point on this setup and it's actually much closer to the camera than I would have thought. Actually right behind (towards the camera) the double blue lines on the Hassy mutar, which means there'd be less weight pulling on the mount if I had mounted the camera to the tripod instead of the lens. If I were using this regularly I'd probably get the Manfrotto 359 long lens support thing that Michael Reichman reviewed on LL a while back (his photo, not mine) but it does seem quite limiting if you wanted to tilt or pan...

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    very nice image, Keith.

    Best regards,
    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    "You aren't shooting natural landscapes..."

    Now there's an interesting concept Marc, "natural landscapes". Thankfully the Gods didn't give us a colour chart.



    A few minutes prior to taking this shot the scene appeared as almost monochrome. At the point of capture the scene appeared pretty much as shown. A few minutes after taking this shot the scene was light by strong sunlight.

    Natural or unnatural?

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    I have a question. Here is an image taken last night just as the sun was at its last ebb. The focus is on the statue of the Shaman in my courtyard. The exposure was 13 seconds at 5.6. My question is that while the image seems very soft viewed fully, when you drill in on the statue the image is really sharp. Anyone able to explain this? Just curious

    H3DII-39

    Woody

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    I have a question. Here is an image taken last night just as the sun was at its last ebb. The focus is on the statue of the Shaman in my courtyard. The exposure was 13 seconds at 5.6. My question is that while the image seems very soft viewed fully, when you drill in on the statue the image is really sharp. Anyone able to explain this? Just curious

    H3DII-39

    Woody
    Actual point of focus?

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by thsinar View Post
    very nice image, Keith.

    Best regards,
    Thierry
    Thanks Thierry, much appreciated.

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    I have a question. Here is an image taken last night just as the sun was at its last ebb. The focus is on the statue of the Shaman in my courtyard. The exposure was 13 seconds at 5.6. My question is that while the image seems very soft viewed fully, when you drill in on the statue the image is really sharp. Anyone able to explain this? Just curious

    H3DII-39

    Woody
    Woody:

    Can you post crops of say the head and antlers of the statue and the swirly thing in its upper left hand?
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Fun with MF images, part 2: What are you shooting with that MF back?

    Woody - first and only comment is that I like it. Very very nice.

    Here's a real quick down and dirty 6 shot pano of Yavapao Point, South Rim Grand Canyon. Just put it together this morning.



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