Does Arca-Swiss glue their clamps to the heads nowadays?

[torger]

I just got my Arca-Swiss D4 head minutes ago. I bought it with the classic screw clamp as it's cheaper and I was going to replace it with a RRS quick-release clamp anyway, as we all know Arca make great heads but their QR system is not particularly good, not near as good as RRS.

However, the bolt sits so hard, I can't make it come loose, so I'm suspecting that it's glued or something. I'm going to contact the dealer tomorrow, but maybe someone on this forum already knows this.

 

[Pemihan]

There's a thread about it somewhere, but yes I think they started to glue the clamps...

Peter

 

[torger]

Arrrgggghhhhhhh!! The classic screw clamp I just bought is rather bad. Well, it works, but the two-story clamp and the fiddly small knob is not great to work with when putting up a 4 kg camera in -15C with gloves on your hands.

If there is a trick to remove the glued clamp, please let me know.

 

[KeithL]

Yup, but it is dependent on the age of the product.

The following are the replies I had from the well known UK Arca-Swiss dealer I bought the assembly from about swapping Arca-Swiss clamps on an Arca-Swiss P0 head.

(1)"Can you please tell us when you bought the Arca head you are going to use this product on. We will need to check with Arca to see if they are compatible as at a currently un-specified point in time they began to use industrial adhesive to fix the top plate bolts to the heads. This would prevent you from removing your current top plate and render this product useless”.

(2)”I am sorry to say that if the head is that new then it is most likely glued. You may have severe difficulty getting the bolt out to replace the top. Arca originally said they glued them to prevent the screws from coming loose, but the truth is they do not like people putting third party tops on their heads. The glues is incredibly tough; some people have managed to force them apart, but there is a risk of damaging the head in the process”.

(3)”Arca have come back to us this morning and said that they are pretty sure that with the age of the head you have it should be using the old regular lock-tight glue that they always used. The new stronger glue was apparently put into use more recently than March 2012. This should mean your bolt can come undone safely with enough pressure."

Try as I might I couldn't shift the screw, it’s likely it did have the stronger adhesive and I eventually sent the head and clamp assembly to Arca-Swiss via the dealer and had the clamp replaced with a different model Arca-Swiss clamp within a matter of days.

If you have the aircraft quality adhesive on your assembly you will almost certainly have problems with removal.

 

[kdphotography]

I'd check with your AS dealer first, but the D4 is probably a similar situation as with the newer Cubes, in which Loctite is used. To remove the head, you need to use a heat gun. Definitely check with AS.... Makes me glad my Cube is an "older" Anniversary edition. I'm just lovin' my corrugated box over that coach leather case.

 

[torger]

Ok, I'm waiting for the reply of the dealer and if I can't replace it I think I'm going to send back the head, if not just to show my disappointment. This is not acceptable.

I've heard some glues are meltable, ie you put a soldering iron on the screw head and heat it up and the unscrew it. I would guess the factory would have to have some method to dismount it for repairs and such? Permanent glue just seems dumb.

 

[stephengilbert]

"[T]he truth is they do not like people putting third party tops on their heads."

If this is true, it's a sad commentary on Arca.

 

[greygrad]

Indeed. See also this post, which shows the struggle that can ensue when trying to replace an A/S clamp.

 

[torger]

Sigh... Arca-Swiss can't make clamps, and the other brands can't make geared heads. Previously you could get the best from both worlds ie arca + rrs (which "everyone" seemed to do), but now it seems Arca has got jealous and blocked that opportunity for users . That is what I would call a bad move(tm). I'm likely going to send this back, if I have to suffer with Arca clamps I probably would not suffer with the classic. Not sure though, the other clamps look bad too, and my Linhof Techno base is big and flat so you don't get much space to fiddle around with your fingers under it.

 

[kdphotography]

Indeed. See also this post, which shows the struggle that can ensue when trying to replace an A/S clamp.

It's worth dropping Don a note (and I think Phil Lindsay has experience here too) if you're going to try and use a heat gun on your D4. I'd probably drop a note to Rod Klukas directly.

To be fair to AS, it should also be noted that AS and Rod Klukas took very good care of Don.

ken

 

[torger]

Oh well, I might just get used to it as well after the initial disappointed has settled. I've looked at videos of the other clamps and it seems like for a camera like the Techno the classic is the least bad clamp afterall. The important part is that the head it's not sloppy with the weight on top like my old Manfrotto junior (on which I had installed a custom clamp by the way). The head itself seems excellent.

I'll certainly complain though so they get to know that they through this move disappoint some of their users.

 

[KeithL]

To be fair my dealer and Arca-Swiss acted really swiftly and went beyond the call of duty in addressing my problem and at no charge to me despite being out of warranty. I'm more than happy with the Arca-Swiss head/clamp combination I now have.

 

[torger]

To be fair my dealer and Arca-Swiss acted really swiftly and went beyond the call of duty in addressing my problem and at no charge to me despite being out of warranty. I'm more than happy with the Arca-Swiss head/clamp combination I now have.

Which clamp do you use?

 

[KeithL]

Quickset Fliplock, although I wouldn't recommend it when using thick gloves!

 

[torger]

Thanks for the info. I'll probably stick with the classic clamp. It actually does work with my leather mittens, I just tried it. Double-speed threading would have been nice though, takes some turning to lock in place. An advantage of a classic screw clamp I can pretend I'll be using is that the long plate I have then can work as a macro rail with tiny unscrewing and fastening to make minor adjustments.

Ideally I'd like to have both a flip-lock and a screw clamp and change depending on what I'm going to do. For more fast-paced work I'd use a flip-lock, for more all-around and long hikes I'd use a fail-safe and macro-friendly screw clamp. But that requires that the clamp can be removed and is not glued in place... duh! It's a fat minus for an otherwise excellent product, and a minus for the company not having more trust in their customers. Being able to change clamps to whatever you like ought to be a standard feature of any high-quality head.

BTW, with the D4 head I just sliced off 680 grams from my tripod head (!), that makes a real difference when hiking.

 

[Frederic]

AS is an evil company, you really should have sticked to Linhof and got their 3D micro head

 

[markymarkrb]

Just take a blow torch to it and heat it up for a few minutes. The glue will release pretty easily. I tried this on a RRS thread when I installed a leveling base and it worked like a charm.

Mark

 

[torger]

AS is an evil company, you really should have sticked to Linhof and got their 3D micro head

Yes, glueing to stop a well-known and popular user modification surely must be a work of evil

I've looked at the Linhof 3D micro, and it seems to be a nice product, but the D4 is better for me because it has a much wider range of movement, and can do even vertical shots without L bracket. Also, the 3D micro head has it's clamp integrated into the head so it can for sure not be replaced, but it looks better than Arca's. The D4 has also the feature that gears can be unlocked, which I like, both for making setup quicker and use it as a "poor man's wiberley head" with my lighter telephoto lenses when I use the head with my Canon system.

What I don't like about Arca's screw clamp is that it is two story (makes blind install more difficult, and with a wide base like on the Techno you don't really see the clamp when putting the camera there), narrow (also bad for blind installs), tiny knob which is not rubberized and perhaps most severe drawback: it's ugly

However, there is one good reason to keep the original clamp worth noting too: the panorama scale on the top is not complete on it's own (like on the 3D micro), but the "arrow" pointing out where on the scale you are (actually a small metal pin) is integrated in the clamp. So if you change the clamp -- no panorama scale.

(The bottom pano has no scale at all, panos have a compact design which make scale placement impossible, which one may consider to be a weakness of this head).

 

[torger]

Just take a blow torch to it and heat it up for a few minutes. The glue will release pretty easily. I tried this on a RRS thread when I installed a leveling base and it worked like a charm.

Mark

Might try that, I've heard though that depending on glue type the heat required may be very high, like 500C.

 

[Frederic]

Gentle sarcasm apart, I'm certain your dealer could've ordered the D4 with no clamp mounted. AS is typically open to customization requests, they even produce parts on demand.

That being said the 'classic' and 'monoballfix' clamps are clearly not convenient on a Techno, I've similar issues with my folding 4x5. As soon as I could live without the D4 for a couple of days next winter I'll send it to AS and ask they take that clamp off.