Medium format cameras and their feel

[dseelig]

I had a contax 645 a rollie 6000 system and a mamiya 645 afd. Quitre frankly I never liked the feel of the mamiya is the 645 md 111 have a better feel. Or is it just a reved up 645. I loved both my contax and rollie systems only went to the contax when I started shooting nature. I am contemplating getting abck into meduim format so whose who have shot with the contax and mamiya what do you think.

 

[Clawery]

I had a contax 645 a rollie 6000 system and a mamiya 645 afd. Quitre frankly I never liked the feel of the mamiya is the 645 md 111 have a better feel. Or is it just a reved up 645. I loved both my contax and rollie systems only went to the contax when I started shooting nature. I am contemplating getting abck into meduim format so whose who have shot with the contax and mamiya what do you think.

It's been some while since I worked with a Rollei system, but remember them to be a bit cumbersome and finicky. The Contax is a sturdy workhorse, but the autofocus is a bit slow and they aren't in production anymore. I did recently test a new Phase One 645 AFD (Mamiya AFD III) and the new focus system is incredibly faster than the previous AFD and AFDII. The shutter lag has also been addressed and has gotten much less noticeable.

The best way to truly test the camera is to find your local dealer and get a demo. That way you can test the camera as well as a digital back.

Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
[email protected]
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year

877-217-9870 | National Atlanta / Miami
404-234-5195 | Cell
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[Paratom]

I cant comment on the contax but only on the Rollei/Sinar Hy6 and I really, really like the handling. Even with a WLF you have all infos in the viewfinder and also additionally on the grip the f-stop and exposure information.
I like the more traditional approach and MF-feel.
Maybe its a little slower pace to photograph with it (or the Conatx) vs the Mamiya system.
Personally I liked the option to choose and be able to change the viewfinder.
One other great thing is-when you use a rotating back-very, very nice for shooting horicontal.
I am not sure if I answered the question.
Cheers, Tom

 

[Stuart Richardson]

I agree with Tom -- the Hy6 seems to really bridge the Rollei 6008AF and the Hasselblad 203FE to me. That said, there are a lot of people here who just HATE the Hy6, which is totally fine too. It is a totally personal thing. I never warmed up to the Hasselblad H series or Mamiya AFD's, though I did like the Contax 645...go figure.

 

[ddk]

I had a contax 645 a rollie 6000 system and a mamiya 645 afd. Quitre frankly I never liked the feel of the mamiya is the 645 md 111 have a better feel. Or is it just a reved up 645. I loved both my contax and rollie systems only went to the contax when I started shooting nature. I am contemplating getting abck into meduim format so whose who have shot with the contax and mamiya what do you think.

This is very a personal question, I haven't found anything that has the feel of the Contax 645, I bought mine because I couldn't put it down once I held it in my hands. The Rollei and the AFi systems almost that special feel too but not quite the same, hard to explain. Mamiya never had it for me, not that there's anything wrong but with the camera, jut not my taste, and the new one might be faster with better electronics but not much has changed in its tactile feel. Then there are the lenses, if you want Zeiss or not, that should narrow your choice too. Again, nothing wrong with M glass just different.

 

[lance_schad]

I have always felt that the Contax was like an air-cooled Porsche 911, just a hell of a great performing and feeling ride. You get the feeling of having some modern comforts such as AF,Metering, winder, etc., but still have the manual feeling of setting the aperture on the lens itself, not via a knob or wheel.It also just has that solid feel like older Hasselblads with the Zeiss lenses and build quality. Yeah back in the day it's specs were very respectable, but today they are not at the top compared to the newer technology dependent cars and out they are out of production, but are still running and producing great images.
Did not have much experience with the Rollei but it had a great feeling as well, but was bulkier and did not have a great deal of digital options back then.
The H series, Hy6 and Phamiya are all great systems, but lack the feel of the these cameras.
Hey if you do not need all the bells and whistles of the newer bodies the Contax works very well and there are some good deals out there on new and used ones. I would recommend picking up a second body and if you see an accessory that you think you may like, buy it now because it may not be there later.

Lance

Lance

 

[Jack]

IMO the Mamiya AFD, AFD2 and AFD 3 all feel pretty similar in the hand save for minor differences -- I would say if you didn't like one, you won't like the others. Sorry...

Agree with Lance's comments on the "feel" of the Contax -- one of the best MF cameras ever built IMO :thumbs:

 

[carstenw]

I have always felt that the Contax was like an air-cooled Porsche 911, just a hell of a great performing and feeling ride. You get the feeling of having some modern comforts such as AF,Metering, winder, etc., but still have the manual feeling of setting the aperture on the lens itself, not via a knob or wheel.It also just has that solid feel like older Hasselblads with the Zeiss lenses and build quality.

I love the comparison you are making, not only because I have the Contax (and don't need the features of the newer bodies, nor the pro support), but I hope to one day own an air-cooled 911, hopefully a '72 911T.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I like the AFDIII but the one thing bugs me a little is the grip is a little fat and I wish the release was more in front than on top. Some minor changes there it would feel better. Maybe slight 5 degree tilt going forward also. The Contax from memory does feel nice, too bad it is no longer made and been updated some.

 

[Sharokin]

A dream medium format camera would have been an updated Contax 645 with better AF, and more importantly bigger, brighter viewfinder.

 

[DougDolde]

If you use the waist level finder on the Contax 645 the view is pretty big. Very easy to focus with the magnifier flipped into place.

 

[Mitchell]

I demoed the Hy6 and Hassy H.

I loved the Hy6 and didn't like the Hassy at all.

Part of it is I like the Hy6 waist level finder, but I also like the 45 degree prism as well. I think the Hy6 ergonomics are great including the adjustable grip, but also the button and menu system.

As said before, it's personal. I don't think you can tell which you're going to like before hand. Spend as much time as you can with the systems you're interested in before buying.

Best,

Mitchell

 

[PeterA]

I dont like the ergonomics of the 645 Mamiya / Phase body - at all. Two reasons:

1. The grip is just not right for my hand;and
2. The viewfinder is not as bright as alternatives;

I dont like the fact that one has to take the body into a Phase dealer to have firmware upgrades. Thsi si a positive only for those who are close and trust strangers with their gear.

I love everything about the Contax body - except:

1. The viewfinder is worse than the Phamiya; and
2. They dont make 'em anymore

In hand the H series blad is very nice. I also love the H series body for its viewfinder. I dont like the 'look' of the body though - sorry it is downright FUGLY

My favourite shooting experiences are with the 200 series body and the Mamiya RZ bodies I use - why? because you get a BIG FAT VIEWFINDER in WLF and 45 degree form and can compose a shot from a non slr perspective.

On a tripod they are all the same.


PS _ I would buy a Hy6/Afi style body that took a Phase One or H3D11-39 back faster than you can say gimme - but they are a closed system.

 

[PSon]

The Rollei 6008 system has so much to offers in term of accessories and compatibility to technical view camera system (X-Act2). Similar to the Rollei system, the Hasselblad V system also have the Flexbody and ArcBody. However, in my case I also use the multishot digital back and thus the electronic shutter is essential and the Rollei system also offer this feature as well. What set the Hasselblad V system apart from any other medium format is their Superachromat Telephoto lens. Up to date, these lens are the best long telephoto lens in the medium format system and even in the 35mm format system. But both of these 6x6 format systems have been the best I have used.

I do not compare the 645 system since they are apple and orange. In the 645 system, the Contax 645 has been my favorite camera for several reasons:
1. Mirror vibration dampening
2. Waist level for landscape and product applications
3. Great optics (Mamiya has made great stride in this department with the recent 150mm so Kudo to them)
4. Comfortable hand grip (last but not least)

I also use the Sinar m camera system (645) but since not too many forum users own this system I will reserve my comment here.

Finally, The Leica S2 system will be very interesting as a step below (size wise) the 645 system. I look forward to this system as well.

In the end they all have their strengths and weaknesses and thus I own all of their strengths and ignore their weaknesses.

Best Regards,
-Son

 

[ddk]

.Finally, The Leica S2 system will be very interesting as a step below the 645 system. I look forward to this system as well.
Best Regards,
-Son

I'm curious Son why do see the S2 as a step below? Is it because its a closed system or some other reason?

 

[carstenw]

If you use the waist level finder on the Contax 645 the view is pretty big. Very easy to focus with the magnifier flipped into place.

Actually, this leads into two criticisms of the Contax 645 system:

1) The fact that it isn't a 6x6 WLF Okay, that wasn't fair, but although the WLF is quite decent, it feels squeezed to me, since I am used to a Hasselblad V WLF. It is probably better for DBs though, ignoring rotation of the back, as on the Hy6.

2) The grip only really works well with the prism. This is probably common to Contax 645, Mamiya AFD* and Hasselblad H*. With the WLF (okay, the Mamiya can't do this trick anyway), the right wrist is a bit kinked.

My perfect future 645 camera would be a Contax 645 with updated electronics and full support, a brighter screen, and a step-wise lockable grip, a-la Rollei 6008. A native version of the Hasselblad 110/2 would be great too.

(By the way, I see a lot of people writing Rollie. Rollei is pronounced something like Roll-Eye, in American. Hard R and flat O (no diphthongs in German) for German pronunciation).

 

[carstenw]

I love everything about the Contax body - except:

1. The viewfinder is worse than the Phamiya

With "worse", do you mean darker, or something else? Would a Maxwell screen fix it?

 

[carstenw]

Son was referring to the sensor size. While it is true, in that a larger sensor will always have an IQ advantage, I am not sure how much of a difference it will make. Certainly Leica has proven in the past that they can overcome a minor size disadvantage (comparing S2 to 31MP MF here, not to the new 645-size Phase DB).

 

[Stuart Richardson]

One thing I have found is that lenses are more important than sensors at these levels...at least at base ISO. This is why I am looking so forward to the S2...no one makes lenses like Leica. I know that is fanboy, but most of the Mamiya, Zeiss and Schneider lenses I have used are just not there compared to Leica lenses -- exceptions would be the mamiya 7 lenses (all admittedly slow), 110/2 planar and 80mm Xenotar. If Leica lives up to their word and these really are the best lenses they have ever made, this system is going to be something special indeed.

 

[PSon]

I'm curious Son why do see the S2 as a step below? Is it because its a closed system or some other reason?

hi David,
I was referring to the size of the camera. Based on all of the format systems, the smaller the format the more advances the features the camera can get. Thus, it would not be fair to compare these cameras in different format. What is interesting is that the S2 is a tweener (kind like Charles Barkley) and thus we may not notice the spatial compression when compare to the 645 format camera especially when the sensor size for the 6x6 and 6x45 cameras are all the same and are not at full frame yet. When shooting in film the differences in these camera will be noticeable.

Best Regards,
-Son