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Tech cameras ... thinking of joining the insanity

hsteeves

Member
so, always eager to rush in, I am wondering how I could ease myself into tech camera usage? I would like to look at a low cost option to begin with as I have already sold the farm to get to where I am (hello, Mastercard, I have been meaning to call you ...) Okay, its not quite that bad.
 

hogweed

Member
I would look at the used market.
Alpa and Arca keep their price quite well, but you may want to look at the Cambo or Silvestri ( or Horseman, but it's not geared) where prices begin at 50% of the new price.
If you know exactly what lens you want to use first, you may find a nice kit somewhere.
Re-mounting lenses can be quite expensive
 

weinlamm

Member
For me the sequence would be

- first step the digital back ( have you one or would you shoot film? )
- then choose your lenses ( must suitable for your sensor; a 24mm is nothing for a IQ260 ;) )
- and the last step should be the camera

But before step 2 think about the system. Cambo, Arca, Alpa.
 

gerald.d

Well-known member
OK, I'm going to come out of self-enforced hibernation for this.

You're in basically the same position I was just over a year ago, so let me give you a few pointers from experience.

Firstly, there are NO honest objective comparisons of all of the three major tech-cam ecosystems out there. No dealer (that I know of) sells them all, and I've certainly never come across a photographer who has owned all the systems. This stuff typically doesn't get reviewed independently either.

Would you trust a Mercedes dealer to educate you about the merits of a BMW? No. You would not. So don't rely on a dealer of any of the tech-cam brands to educate you about the competition.

Note that I say "ecosystems". This is important - you cannot consider the camera in isolation. You have to think about what it is you want to shoot, and then work out which system (camera(s), lenses, accessories) will work best for YOU.

Individual photographers who own any of these systems will have spent a lot of time evaluating the various options based on their own personal needs prior to shelling out a considerable amount of cash to buy into the one they believe is right for them.

Once you're bought in, you're pretty much stuck with your original choice unless you want to take a significant hit on resale. So take your time, do the research, think about where you are as a photographer now, and - more importantly - where you want to go, and evaluate accordingly.

Open question to the forum:

How many people here have bought into one tech-cam system (typically Alpa, Arca, or Cambo), and then realise they made a mistake, sold it, and bought into another?

And that's where post-purchase rationalisation will come in.

You'll find it hard to find someone who has spent upwards of $10K just to get a camera and lens to admit that maybe they did the wrong thing. Now, I strongly suspect that the vast majority of people who get into this game do a stack load of research to make sure they make the right decision up front, but again, to stress, that will based on THEIR requirements, not YOURS.

Don't fall for the "you have to work with a dealer" line. It's simply not true. I bought my tech cam system pretty much sight-unseen based on detailed research on this and other forums and having a clear understanding as to what it was I was after, and what I potentially wanted to do in the future.

This is where I started:

Instagram

And this is where I am just one year later:

Instagram

(I still have the TC, it's just that it's the one thing that doesn't live in that case.)

Welcome to Dante's inferno. It is bloody brilliant in here.
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Glad to see you back Gerald!

I agree with everything Gerald says:
- You don't HAVE to work with a dealer. Though when it comes to something that is very highly tactile, involves mechanical ergonomics, and involves a new/different shooting technique than you're used to, and also has a lot of caveats (like lens+back incompatibles, accessories that can only be used with specific lenses etc) it sure can make life easier :).
- Nobody is unbiased (certainly not dealers, and not even users). For instance we choose to sell only Arca and Cambo and (notably) not Alpa. That said our summary of the basic specs of Arca, Cambo, and Alpa is a useful place to start. For sure it should not be only your only place to do research, but again, a good starting point.

I'd suggest the same approach as with any major buying decision. Do a very broad-spectrum search to decide which of the many options out there might be candidates. Then narrow in on those candidates with further focused research. Then when your down to a manageable number of options I'd suggest getting your hands on to each of those options to decide what works best for you.

There is a big Photo Expo in NYC coming up where we will have Cambo and Arca bodies, Arca Swiss' US rep will be there, and you should be able to find someone with or from Alpa (if not you could go somewhere in the city that carries them separate from the shot). Alternatively you can borrow from a forum member, attend a workshop (I've been a part of several GetDPI workshops and think very highly of them, though I guess I can be considered unbiased there either eh Gerald :)). If you can't or don't want to leave home you could rent from a dealer or use our Remote Demo Center for a web-based video/audio/screen/raw-file sharing experience - not the same as touching it yourself, but pretty good considering you don't have to leave home :).
 

Dogs857

New member
As someone who has recently bought into the whole Tech camera scene (still buying in actually but almost there) I can relate to a lot on here. I did a hell of a lot of research and changed my mind at least 100 times trying to work it all out. I read somewhere that someone said we get to the point of not making a decision because we become afraid of making the wrong one. From what I learnt they are all great systems (the big three Alpa, Arca and Cambo) with excellent support. However I wouldn't consider any of them cheap. Even if the bodies seem reasonable, the glass will kill you.

Hands on is my best advice. The camera I chose felt just wrong the first time I held it, but better the second time after trying some others and figuring a few things out. Advice on here is great, but almost always tainted (there are a few exceptions). The Alpa crowd love Alpa, and Arca and Cambo are the same. Dealers obviously will give you their opinions but always based on what they sell. D/T have some good base resources to compare things but numbers do not tell the whole story.

As for a low cost entry, you really need to get the word cheap out of your mind. If you want to play in the inferno you need to bring some serious dough. There are cheaper ways of doing it, but it is like comparing the cost of a Rolls Royce to a Bently. Sure one costs a bit less but really..... I find it easier if I put the words "only" or "just" in front of the price and compare everything to a brand new IQ280 back. "It's only $20 000. A new back costs $55 000, that's a complete bargain" See how that works :D

I guess the best idea is a lower MP back and find a body with one lens around the 40-50mm range. That should get you started without burning the wallet too bad. Also avoid the words "cube" or "viewfinder" for a while as well.:D

Good luck
 
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Where might a person find a good comparison of camera features?
If you're over Calgary way feel free to get in touch and drop by. I have a good selection of Alpa stuff and some Arca-Swiss you can get your hands on and see if either appeals to you...

David
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Hi Doug,

apart from Photokina, would you happen to know any other European show that you could recommend for getting in contact with tech.-cam manufacturers?
There is a relatively big show in Saint Petersburg Russia. I'm not sure which manufacturers are going to that this year.

Photo Plus and Photokina are, IMO, your best bet.

A trip to NYC is not a hard thing to justify! :) Maybe we will see you here!
 
There is a relatively big show in Saint Petersburg Russia. I'm not sure which manufacturers are going to that this year.

Photo Plus and Photokina are, IMO, your best bet.

A trip to NYC is not a hard thing to justify! :) Maybe we will see you here!
Darn, Photo Plus is late October, guess I'm not going to make it since I'm in NY till the 21st. But me and a friend will be coming over sometime tomorrow, just look for the two 6'2" guys wearing ski masks.

No one go to Peter this time of year. At least not unless you bring wilderness survival gear. :D bears and all that.
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
I caught Rene Rook after-hours and he says "Cambo at this very moment is at the IBC in Amsterdam, but that is video orientated. There are no major shows planned in the next months, only November in Paris, where the French Cambo distributor will show a selection."

I also heard back from Arca Swiss who will be at the Paris show:
http://en.lesalondelaphoto.com/
 
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justinpoulsen

New member
If you're over Calgary way feel free to get in touch and drop by. I have a good selection of Alpa stuff and some Arca-Swiss you can get your hands on and see if either appeals to you...

David
Hey David,

Which Alpa/Arca cameras do you use? I'm a Cambo WRS user. Always nice to meet other local tech cam users :)
 
Hey David,

Which Alpa/Arca cameras do you use? I'm a Cambo WRS user. Always nice to meet other local tech cam users :)
I have Alpa TC, STC, SWA, and have been busy with an FPS of late. My first tech cam was an ARCA Rm2d (rise/fall, shift, no tilt) which has been sitting on the shelf here for a year or two, but only because the Alpas tend to fit my hand and my camera case better. I primarily do landscape, with an IQ180, also some fine art documentation images.

Perhaps we'll meet someday :)
David
 

mmbma

Active member
I have the Alpa XY. sold the TC to partially fund it but want it back or a STC for mobility.

This is after going through almost all kinds of medium format and tech cam gear and losing a lot of money through the years.

My only advice would be, always get the best gear you can barely afford. Don't think along the lines of:"Buy a cheaper set to try out first, then upgrade." Because you will always end up upgrading and costing yourself much more compared to if you had gone for the best from the very beginning.

Alpa and Linhof (now probably Arca too) would be the end of the line in terms of tech/field camera goes. Unlike consumer cameras, a good tech kit will stay with you for a long time and upgrading them can be a major pain. So choose carefully, but don't cheap out.
 

Kabraxis

New member
so, always eager to rush in, I am wondering how I could ease myself into tech camera usage? I would like to look at a low cost option to begin with as I have already sold the farm to get to where I am (hello, Mastercard, I have been meaning to call you ...) Okay, its not quite that bad.
That was my entry point one Year ago too. I owned a digital back for my Hassi and wanted to try out this type of camera. I end in an used Horseman SW-D II, witch is very cheap compared to the most competitors. The only weak point is the resolution while using backs with very small pixels (i used the camera with a P45+ back).
Now one year later i real know "this is my style of shooting". I know what i am dislike and appreciate while using a technical camera. So may be this mouth i will order my new camera that suit my needs to 100%. From this point of view the Horseman SW-D II is a good and low priced alternative.

Best Regards
Pascal
 

tjv

Active member
I loved shooting 4x5" for years, especially the experience of composing and focusing on ground glass. Something about the process it forced really inspired me. So, I ended up going with a Linhof Techno and have no regrets. Initially I was gunning for an Alpa STC or SWA, but in all honesty couldn't justify spending that kind of money – the body itself isn't too badly priced, but the lens mounts and accessories would have killed me. Also, I wanted lens tilt without adaptors, etc. I will say though that the GG experience isn't for everyone. And if you're into stitching, the Techno probably isn't the best choice due to lack of horizontal shift if you're not using the sliding back.

It seems Cambo is a great option if you're into pancake cameras.
 

Geoff

Well-known member
There are a few ways to stitch with the Techno (horiz) - with use of sliding backs from Kapture Group, Silvestri or Linhof. Had good luck with Kapture Group. The Silvestri has a few more interlocks, for safety.
 

torger

Active member
Could the Silvestri Bicam III be an option? Silvestri cameras is generally a bit more economical than the other brands.

I have a Linhof Techno myself and love the flexibility ("large" tilts and shifts for all lenses) and the low cost lens mounts (ie lens boards), but until decent live view arrives in the backs you'll need to live with ground glass focusing, and some find that too difficult, so it's definitely a try-before-buy camera, although I did not :D
 

hsteeves

Member
David, I am in Calgary right now but unfortunately am flying out tomorrow for 3 weeks until
October 11th. I will be in town for a couple of days when i return before heading back to Saskabush. Can I get in touch with you to maybe meet up that week-end?
 
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