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Phase One IQ180 very slow in writing to CF

Pradeep

Member
Yes, I am now the proud owner of a brand new DF and IQ180 system. A bit apprehensive for sure, do not know if I have bitten off more than I can chew. I love the images I am getting out of it so it is probably all worth it. It does have somewhat of a learning curve and I wonder if I am missing something.

Last night was doing some night photography with long exposures. Noticed that the longer the exposure, the longer it took for the camera to write to the CF card. Initially I thought it was my card (Sandisk Extreme Pro 32G), so today I ran some tests at home with my Lexar 1000X 32G, which is the fastest card I own.

Regardless or ISO or f-stop, the longer the exposure is, the longer the IQ takes to write to the card. I used MLUP and self timer (tried without it too), and as soon as the exposure is done and and shutter closes, the IQ starts to write to either the buffer or the CF - the green light keeps blinking and then a while later the red light comes on with a beep and the image now appears on the LCD. During this process, I can see through the viewfinder and change settings on the DF, but cannot fire the shutter.

My times for the writing process are agonizingly long. Here is what I found.

exp time 30 seconds, writing time 34 seconds
exp time 20 seconds, writing time 21 seconds
exp time 10 seconds, writing time 10 seconds
exp time 5 seconds, writing time 5 seconds.

Otherwise the writing time is almost nothing, i.e. less than a second. So if the shutter speed is say 1/250, the image is completed in about a second in total and I can take another picture right away. If the shutter speed is 10 seconds, the total image time (without self timer) is over 20 seconds before I can take the next image.

Something is not right and I do not know what it is. The files are all the same size (around 80MB) so it must be the buffer somehow.

Please help.

Pradeep
 

Wayne Fox

Workshop Member
So the write time is after the dark frame exposure? looks like maybe these times are just including the matching length dark frame exposure.
 

Shashin

Well-known member
+1

You are seeing dark-frame subtraction. The camera makes a second exposure for the same length of time as the first and then that frame is subtracted from the image to reduce noise.
 

Pradeep

Member
Ah, that makes sense now, since the writing time is almost the same (a tad longer) as the exposure. Didn't know digital backs did that, funny, this is not mentioned in any of the reviews and the PODAS guys did not say anything either.

Well, even though it means each shot now has to be planned even more carefully (isn't that what MF shooting is about anyway), at least there is nothing wrong with my gear :D

Thanks so much. It's been an education. Coming from the DSLR world it's quite an experience.

Pradeep

PS. Another question, should the camera then be absolutely stationary during this 'dark frame' capture to avoid any kind of noise or can one move it, change composition etc?
 

Shashin

Well-known member
No, you can move the camera. It is simply recording with the shutter closed. Motion is not going to add noise.
 

malmac

Member
Hi Pradeep


Welcome to the forum - I for one look forward to seeing some of your work shared with the rest of us.

Mal

(IQ180, 645DF and a few lenses)
 
FWIW, my Leaf Valeo does the same thing. Max time exposure is 30" which I use in the studio to add flames to a grill shot. takes about the same 30" to generate the preview in Leaf Capture.



 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Ah, that makes sense now, since the writing time is almost the same (a tad longer) as the exposure. Didn't know digital backs did that, funny, this is not mentioned in any of the reviews and the PODAS guys did not say anything either.

Well, even though it means each shot now has to be planned even more carefully (isn't that what MF shooting is about anyway), at least there is nothing wrong with my gear :D

Thanks so much. It's been an education. Coming from the DSLR world it's quite an experience.

Pradeep

PS. Another question, should the camera then be absolutely stationary during this 'dark frame' capture to avoid any kind of noise or can one move it, change composition etc?
I'm holding my tongue here.:D

Anyway you can go up to 2 minutes with a IQ 180 along with the same time frame added to the dark frame. You can move the camera with no ill effect during that time. Now time will depend on temp. As well. General rule the colder it is the less noise and more time can be had up to the 2 minutes of course. Your better off staying at a low ISO and going longer in time than bumping up the ISO and going shorter in time. Its noise you are trying to fight here and lower ISO in general is the better option and cool ambient temps.

BTW welcome to the forum and congrats on your MF kit. Also just FYI Jack and I run GetDPI workshops that teach MF and other digital format workshops. You would have got this info on day 1.
 

Pradeep

Member
Thanks Guy and Jack.

I tried out the MFDB on a recent workshop in Svalbard and bought it locally in NY after returning home. I guess I did not take long exposures during the test phase.

Will keep learning as I go along. Thanks for this forum and your help. Good place to continue my education.

Pradeep
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Your more than welcome and yes the forum here is a great place to learn. It's really what this forum is all about. You need any help just ping us and we can help.
 

Nutcracker

New member
Pradeep
Good to know you are using the P1 in even lower light levels than we were blessed/challenged with in the far north. Nothing like a challenge to get you ever deeper in MFDB! I hope my part in persuading you to go down the infernal pathway is not held against me!
Regards
Sean
 

Wayne Fox

Workshop Member
Didn't know digital backs did that
Dark frame subtraction is pretty standard on good digital equipment, including dSLR's. The difference is you can't disable it on a MFDB, most likely because they are more prone to noise. On a dSLR it's usually an option.

You can see the progress of the dark frame on the IQ180 if the screen is on, at the bottom you can see the time counting down.
 

Bill Caulfeild-Browne

Well-known member
Thanks Guy and Jack.

I tried out the MFDB on a recent workshop in Svalbard and bought it locally in NY after returning home. I guess I did not take long exposures during the test phase.

Will keep learning as I go along. Thanks for this forum and your help. Good place to continue my education.

Pradeep
I think you made a mistake with the word "education", Pradeep.

The correct expression is "addiction". Just ask Dante.
 

Pradeep

Member
Pradeep
Good to know you are using the P1 in even lower light levels than we were blessed/challenged with in the far north. Nothing like a challenge to get you ever deeper in MFDB! I hope my part in persuading you to go down the infernal pathway is not held against me!
Regards
Sean
Hi Sean!

You were indeed instrumental in my getting 'down here', but so far I am quite enjoying the heat :)

Hope to see you again on another workshop.

Best,

Pradeep
 

Pradeep

Member
Dark frame subtraction is pretty standard on good digital equipment, including dSLR's. The difference is you can't disable it on a MFDB, most likely because they are more prone to noise. On a dSLR it's usually an option.

You can see the progress of the dark frame on the IQ180 if the screen is on, at the bottom you can see the time counting down.
Yes, I did see the timer counting down once and was a bit confused as to what was happening. Just that I've never encountered this with my DSLRs so it was a bit strange. Now it makes sense.
 
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