Rodenstock 23HR - center filter or no center filter?

[GrahamWelland]

Just wondering what fellow 23HR shooters are doing with this lens.

I've had mine for a while and you'd literally have to prise it from my cold dead fingers as I simply LOVE it, despite being a complete PIA to use at times. However, I chose not to get the center filter for this lens (I use them on all of my Schneiders) and I do find that LCC corrections can be noisy on low light images where the vignette really kicks in. I'm not desparate to kick in close to $1k for the filter and add more reflective and flare surfaces to an already flare sensitive lens. However, for those who have it, does the CF really really work well and not be a flare nightmare?

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Graham it uses the same filter as the 32mm I'm pretty sure and there is one next week for you to try. I did not use one when I shot with it. The 23 can flare if your not really careful.

 

[MILESF]

I think the 23mm and 32mm Rodenstock lenses have different center filters or at least Rodenstock make two different ones.

See http://www.rodenstock-photo.com/mediabase/original/Filter_brochure_Center_2010_CD_Engl_10184.pdf

I have exactly the same question as Graham. I love the lens to bits - it renders images unlike anything I have ever seen from a camera before. I've clocked the flare issue but haven't yet experienced it AFAIK. But applying the LCC seems to generate a lot of chroma noise in dark areas of the image. That apart the LCC seems to do a good job on the image. I need to use the lens in a wider range of scenes but I I'm thinking that a center filter may make sense.

Then maybe a new LCC/Lens profile taken with the center filter in situ ?

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I maybe thinking the 28mm and 32mm use the same.

 

[jotloob]

NO .
The 23mm and the 28mm lens use M72 filters while the 32mm lens uses M86 filters . Occording to Rodenstock technical datasheets .

 

[alajuela]

Hi Graham

I have the 28 HR, I got the center filter and use it. I find it helps allot -- since you have very little movement with either the 23 or 28 on a FF sensor I don't usually shot an LCC.

Occasionally I shot w/o it when light is getting low (I believe the CF has a 2.5 stop penalty) and then will shot a LCC sometimes, otherwise just work thru the vignetting.
I got mine from Dave at CI
Anyway I don't have the 23 - but I do love my 28, just I have problem getting my 40 off the camera, to use the 28

Phil

 

[Guy Mancuso]

NO .
The 23mm and the 28mm lens use M72 filters while the 32mm lens uses M86 filters . Occording to Rodenstock technical datasheets .

Thanks I knew it was one of those combos. I had the 28 with the center filter. Which has about 7mm of movement before you hit the disk. I tried the 23 and had the 32 for a weekend. Both great lenses

This and the SK60xl where my favorite lenses.

 

[jagsiva]

Yup, different filters. I the CF for both the 23 and 32. On the 23, I always use it with the exception of the odd time when I use a polarizer. With the polarizer it vignettes.

On the 32, I use the CF less. Let me know if you want some RAWs with the 23 with and without filters.

 

[GrahamWelland]

How is the centre flare hot spot when using the CF? I religiously use the LEE wide angle hood to avoid hitting that flare and my biggest concern has been that the CF would perhaps increase sensitivity to this.

I definitely be interested in checking out a few with/without RAWs if you don't mind sharing.

 

[etrump]

The flare on that lens is a nightmare but it seems about the same CF, no better and no worse. The magenta hotspot seems to be light reflected off the censor.

That said, the CF takes something like 2.5 stops which would be a lot of noise too clean up.

 

[GrahamWelland]

My futile attempts to continue without the CF filter are becoming just that ...

Thanks everyone.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Was just browsing and this image popped up . IQ 160 with Rodie 28 no center filter

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Found it IQ 160 with Rodie 23mm no CF

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Okay found a Rodie 32 mm without CF

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I personally out of the 3 liked the 28mm the best because if I needed a bit wider I could stitch 7mm on both sides safely. The 32 is beautiful but big and IMHO a delicate lens. The 23 is a PITA with the flair and just hard to shoot but that focal length sure is fun to have in the bag. Frankly I would take anyone of them in a heart beat.

At the time I got the CF for the 28mm because it cleaned up nicely but given the newer C1 with better LCC control I'm just not sure how well the do now. The 28mm did have some color shift in the bottom right without any shifting but back than the LCC cleaned up but not critically enough. Today with C1 not sure. I'll know next week when I shoot a tech cam again. From the list of gear for the workshop they have the 28 in both the Cambo mount and they have a Alpa kit too with one. So depending what others grab I'll take what's left. Being one of the instructors I will let the participants grab what they want first. I get leftovers. LOL

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I'm more concerned about wanting to buy back in which I desperately want to do but just can't for awhile yet. It's going to be painful going home empty handed. I'm such a gear slut.

What the real issue for me is I have some really really good images from a tech cam and that has kept my heart in wanting one again.

 

[jagsiva]

How is the centre flare hot spot when using the CF? I religiously use the LEE wide angle hood to avoid hitting that flare and my biggest concern has been that the CF would perhaps increase sensitivity to this.

I definitely be interested in checking out a few with/without RAWs if you don't mind sharing.

Flare is bad without the filter, and just as bad with the filter. My main issue with this lens.

 

[Paul2660]

I have only used a 23Hr once and it was on a demo shoot. However I do have the 28HR and use it often.

As already posted, the physical CF is the same part number for the 23 and 28HR you go from 72mm to 95mm. With the 95mm on you can place a slim CL-PL screw in type and not get any vignetting, however if you add a normal width one you will vignette (at least on the 28mm so I assume the 23 would be worse).

There is a Lee 95mm adapter ring made by Schneider, however it's hard to find and the one I was shipped was a normal not wide angle even though the box stated wide angle. The difference is that the wide angle is just a bit more open and you might get the Lee Hood without vignetting due to the ring. I took dremel tool to mine, and opened it up. Only problem is you have taken the anodized coating off and need to paint it with something to help keep out glare.

You can also purchase the Lee 95mm to 105 adapter, with hold up to 2 filter slots, this easily fits over the 95mm size of the physical CF and allows use of the 4 x 4 Lee filters.

No doubt on center shots, the physical CF makes a difference in that you will get much cleaner LCC's and much less noise in the corners. The 28mm without the physical CF is still much better than say a SK35 without on and many times the files don't seem to be too bad as it's shot dependent.

I have also noticed that if you use the physical CF and shift even 5mm you get a strange white vignetting before you hit the hard black (Black due to Rodenstock design). This white also will pretty much ruin a shifted sky as I have never been able to correct for it. This white vignetting shows up at 4mm and by 7mm is terrible. The black vignetting seems to show up at around anything past 7mm.

So if I plan on shifting, I take the physical CF off and live with the noise. You can take a 82mm Lee ring and modify it to fit over the barrel of the 28mm or 23mm since they are the same. This allows the use of the Lee wide angle hood and 1 filter. I also have the 105mm CL-PL adapter ring for my Lee hood and that works very well as long as you have the Physical CF off.

So long post, net, yes I see a considerable difference with the Physical CF attached on the 28mm and use it 100% of the time on non shifted work. If I am planning to try to shift I take it off and use the Lee hood setup. I have also noticed a strange reaction from the CF and a CL-PL in certain long exposures say 1 sec to 10 seconds in low light, where I see a light band along the top right of the frame. At first I thought this was a light leak, but it's easily fixed by taking off the CF. I get this on my Schneiders also.

Paul Caldwell