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IQ260 vs IQ280

rupho

New member
Hi
I came from an IQ180 and "downgraded" to an IQ260 over the summer.
Here apart from the WIfi feature were my reasons
- longer exposures, files in long exposure mode do look better on the 260 starting from 10 seconds and longer
- though I got the 50 ,32 and 23 HR extreme shifting to the lenses respective limits still works better on the 260, as a result stiched images are more easily blended together as compared to my 180
- sensor size, this has not been discussed earlier but the ever so lightly increase in sensor size on the 260 does actually make a difference . In tight wide angle shots it really shows having that extra bit of sensor which can result in several inches of shown in your photograph. I compared both backs in this regard and that was a welcome surprise

On the downside apart from the obvious smaller megapixel count I would rate 2 issues
-moire : I can confirm RVBs statement that the 260 exhibits moire more easily than the 180/280 ,which almost never showed moire
- the absolute cleanest files I have seen where from the 180 shot with 35ISO , better than the 260 at 50. Again it's a close call but nevertheless.

As many already pointed out if file size is pivotal and you don't need exposures over 10 seconds the 280 is the way to go.
If you are invested in wide angle Schneider glass don't even think about going that route .
I had to sell my 28 and 43 XL that over time were replaced with a 32 and 23 HR, a costly upgrade from P65 to IQ180 turned even more costly with the upgrade in my lens pool
Grischa
 

Landscapelover

Senior Subscriber Member
I've found it's very difficult to tell the difference of file quality and DR between the IQ180 at ISO of 35 and IQ 260 at ISO of 50 for landscape photography.
I don't shoot fabric so I don't see moire to be a problem at all with the landscape photography.
One thing I still don't see as useful as I thought is the wireless, especially when it can't practically be used with the retinal-display iPAD (too slow...). It is a little disappointment and the problem should have been declared by the Phase One earlier. I believe the backs musted have been tested with the retinal-display iPAD before they were shipped to customers. Well! It's the same as color cast problem with the IQ180.
 
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Shashin

Well-known member
It might be worth pointing out, the difference in linear resolution between 60MP and 80MP is 15%. Or to put it another way, a length of 100 pixels on the 60MP sensor is rendered with 115 pixels at 80MP.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
I agree with Pramote about the WiFi feature of the IQ2 backs being 1st generation and immature. It's a capability in the field that is over-hyped by Phase One due to the fragility of connection, battery drain and the speed of image retrieval (plus I don't want my images sent to me in chronological order - I want the most recent first!). I can see how for some it would be more useful in the studio and/or with the DF+. Adhoc WiFi connection is very spotty with devices in crowded WiFi environments too - definitely a work in progress.

I did the IQ160 -> IQ260 swap for the principal reason of long exposure capability. That alone allowed me to lighten my bag by no longer having to carry a second P+ back for long exposure shooting. I very nearly have the single solution that allows me to shoot everything with medium format - only the mandatory dark frame processing interferes with that goal.

I deliberately avoided getting the IQ180 when I bought my IQ160 due to the tech camera lens restrictions. It would have doubled my upgrade cost from my P40+ due to the new lenses I would have had to buy/trade. For a DF/DF+ shooter this would not have been a concern.
 

MILESF

Member
I agree with Pramote about the WiFi feature of the IQ2 backs being 1st generation and immature. It's a capability in the field that is over-hyped by Phase One due to the fragility of connection, battery drain and the speed of image retrieval (plus I don't want my images sent to me in chronological order - I want the most recent first!). I can see how for some it would be more useful in the studio and/or with the DF+. Adhoc WiFi connection is very spotty with devices in crowded WiFi environments too - definitely a work in progress.

I did the IQ160 -> IQ260 swap for the principal reason of long exposure capability. That alone allowed me to lighten my bag by no longer having to carry a second P+ back for long exposure shooting. I very nearly have the single solution that allows me to shoot everything with medium format - only the mandatory dark frame processing interferes with that goal.

I deliberately avoided getting the IQ180 when I bought my IQ160 due to the tech camera lens restrictions. It would have doubled my upgrade cost from my P40+ due to the new lenses I would have had to buy/trade. For a DF/DF+ shooter this would not have been a concern.
I've found a simple way to get around the Adhoc WiFi problem on the IQ2 series backs. I have a ZTE WiFi/3G dongle that I used to use when traveling in Italy where public WiFi is less common than in the UK. It creates a WiFi hotspot but doesn't require the 3G connection. It's small, light and gives me a WiFi network between the back and the iPad wherever I am. No need to struggle to set up an Adhoc connection which does seem problematic when there are WiFi networks in the vicinity. +1 to images being sent in chronological order.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
The irony for me is that if my iPhone connects, my iPad is reliable. If the iPhone disconnects, the iPad disconnects also.
 
It might be worth pointing out, the difference in linear resolution between 60MP and 80MP is 15%. Or to put it another way, a length of 100 pixels on the 60MP sensor is rendered with 115 pixels at 80MP.
And to put it in terms of physical print size, 60mp is a roughly 25 x 19 inch print at 360ppi, 80mp will give you an extra 3.25 inches. Multiply these amounts by 1.5x for 240ppi.
 

alajuela

Active member
I've found a simple way to get around the Adhoc WiFi problem on the IQ2 series backs. I have a ZTE WiFi/3G dongle that I used to use when traveling in Italy where public WiFi is less common than in the UK. It creates a WiFi hotspot but doesn't require the 3G connection. It's small, light and gives me a WiFi network between the back and the iPad wherever I am. No need to struggle to set up an Adhoc connection which does seem problematic when there are WiFi networks in the vicinity. +1 to images being sent in chronological order.
Hi Miles

What model ZTE do you have? Or do you have a link to the model you have?

Thanks so much

Phil
 

RVB

Member
Also for you the H50 is Kodak and the 260 Dalsa you will see some differences in color tone and the Dalsa more neutral in color. I love the Dalsa sensors myself. So you will see some difference , not only that you get all the great functions of a IQ. So bottom line its a good trade for you. I know Capture Integration sells both Hassy and Phase and maybe you can work a trade with them even though your out of country. I don't know how the international stuff works but might be worth a call at least. I can help you if need be
Guy,I gave Steve Hendrix a call today,I am going to see if I can work out a way into the IQ260,probably in the new year.. (still dealing with medical problem and all the issues that surround it.. )

I plan to use it on a H4X with my HC glass and then add a tech cam and a couple of Rodies at some point..

Rob
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
When I first read about wifi on the newer IQ2 models, it really did not do much for me. However after upgrading from the 160 to 260 via Digital Transitions, I found that the wifi connection did make a considerable difference, mainly since I shooting a tech camera only.

A few more thoughts on wifi:

1. Don't upgrade to iOS7, on your ipad or phone if you want it to work consistently. There have been a few dealer posts on ways to make it work, but on my setup none of these work. I have found a work around that seems to work 85% of the time, but it's still buggy. I was always able to connect on iOS6 100% of the time. There were timeouts that required rebooting the back, but it still worked. As much as I love Phase products, I was a bit surprised by the failure with iOS7. The software was out in beta for developers for over 6 months. As others stated, this should have been caught and a warning sent out not to upgrade. I did not plan to upgrade my ipad, but the software upgrade noticed is worded differently than the phone and I screwed up and allowed the upgrade, one thing is for sure you can't go back to iOS6.

2. The retina ipad is probably not the best for this. Even with "respect retine" on, the view at 100% is not the best. If you reduce it just a bit, to maybe 80% then it's much easier to work with. Doug told me to get a mini, but I wanted the larger ipad for business reasons, I still may go pick up a older mini with low memory. The main reason I did not want to use the mini was that reflection issues on it's screen, which as worse than the retina ipads.

3. I totally agree, load the images in order shot, not from the beginning. However after I started using the wifi more, I realized you can quickly just page down to the latest image. You don't have to wait for all the images to load as the software is only bringing in a certain amount of previews anyway. You never load all the files at one time into a buffer on the ipad (I would like to see this)

4. The image on the ipad is a bit darker, even with the brightness at 100% and thus you don't get as good a preview of shadow areas. Same on the iphone.

4. I have not had any issue where I have to have the iphone connected and the ipad, but I have never tried to bring both up at the same time.

5. The strange thing about iOS7 connections via adhoc is when I finally get the connection to work, it's much more stable than with iOS6, by stable I mean the need to reboot the back happens much less. With iOS6 many times after viewing an image at 100%, and going back to the thumbnail view the software would freeze up.

6. One interesting note, when the software does freeze, you can't power the back off you have to power down the ipad (this is with iOS7). This has happened to me several times.

7. I do hope that Phase built enough into this wifi to make a more robust tools and that is not "done" and best of breed until a new back comes out. Hoping for some firmware update.

8. I wish they would make a software like Capture pilot that would allow wifi connections to a PC. The wifi on most PC's may be a bit more stable. In the field with only the wifi on the Phase connected to my ipad, my range tends to be about 10 feet away and it's also somewhat line of sight dependent, i.e I can get maybe 15 feet away max as long as I stay even to the back, but if I sit down to preview images while the back is on a tripod it's the connection seems to get a bit shaky.

Paul Caldwell
 

MILESF

Member
Hi Miles

What model ZTE do you have? Or do you have a link to the model you have?

Thanks so much

Phil
Phil,

It's an MF63 which I got from Wind Telecom in Italy for 59 Euros (plus 15 Euros prepaid for 10Gb of cellular data per month). It no longer has an active SIM but the WiFi side works fine without it. You can find it on the ZTE website (enter MF63 in the search box) but it looks like a European carrier specific model.

The nearest generic device of this type that I can find on ZTE's site is the MF65 which is at: MF65 - Mobile Hotspot - ZTE Devices - Bringing you closer
 

alajuela

Active member
I've found a simple way to get around the Adhoc WiFi problem on the IQ2 series backs. I have a ZTE WiFi/3G dongle that I used to use when traveling in Italy where public WiFi is less common than in the UK. It creates a WiFi hotspot but doesn't require the 3G connection. It's small, light and gives me a WiFi network between the back and the iPad wherever I am. No need to struggle to set up an Adhoc connection which does seem problematic when there are WiFi networks in the vicinity. +1 to images being sent in chronological order.
Phil,

It's an MF63 which I got from Wind Telecom in Italy for 59 Euros (plus 15 Euros prepaid for 10Gb of cellular data per month). It no longer has an active SIM but the WiFi side works fine without it. You can find it on the ZTE website (enter MF63 in the search box) but it looks like a European carrier specific model.

The nearest generic device of this type that I can find on ZTE's site is the MF65 which is at: MF65 - Mobile Hotspot - ZTE Devices - Bringing you closer

Thank you very much Miles

Phil
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
BTW one of the best threads I have seen in awhile. Freaking great data here. Thanks Everyone.:thumbs::salute::);)
 
Would anyone care to share info regarding speed/responsiveness/ISO performance/Sensor+ etc? Landscapes on tripod are one thing, but there are plenty of other applications.
 
Would anyone care to share info regarding speed/responsiveness/ISO performance/Sensor+ etc? Landscapes on tripod are one thing, but there are plenty of other applications.
I'm not sure if speed and responsiveness are a medium format thing, at least as of 2013, if you feel the need to run around and shoot in available light with your DF, get a Manfrotto Neotec 685B monopod. I takes like 5 seconds to deploy.
 

satybhat

Member
It might be worth pointing out, the difference in linear resolution between 60MP and 80MP is 15%. Or to put it another way, a length of 100 pixels on the 60MP sensor is rendered with 115 pixels at 80MP.
I would have thought the difference in resolution would be 25% ?? 60/80 x 100 =75% ?

BTW, I've seen ALL of the posts and pages on the tech cam threads here and my head's a buzzing !! and last night was an interesting experience... the last thought I was having when I slept with was "F@% it, what good is the money in bank anyways, if I don't use it !! " :wtf: I think I must have said this aloud in my half'sleep, cause I saw my wife staring at me with eyes wide open in horror !! not that she understood what I was talking about, but she did see one of the tech cam images ( of the camera itself ), and she asked me what it was, and I replied: its an instrument to measure near-vision (I work as a physician). I think she was satisfied with this and went back to sleep !!! :angel:

So coming back to the thread, 75% reduction in resolution if I go for the 60mp backs - Yet, as far as I see it till now, no one seems to be complaining that it affects their print sizes. Would that be right ? For a single well thought shot, would 80mp show the difference when you print really large, say: 3x2m ? (would be displaying in a local charitable gallery here). Would love to hear about how large the stalwarts here have printed in the past with the IQ160.

The next issue is the long exposures - does it really make a difference, if you were to expose for say 60s at ISO35 on the 280/180 as opposed to say 20s at ISO 140 on the 260/160 ? in short, how "bad" is the long exposure on IQ180/280 when compared to the 60MP backs ?

I understand that the IQ260 is a completely new sensor design with the electronics, but given a choice, if my exposures were limited to about a minute and half, would I be wise to choose the IQ180 over the IQ260 (both are available here in Melbourne - the IQ180 is pre-owned, obviously) ?

Thanks, fellow Dante-slaves.
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
....
BTW, I've seen ALL of the posts and pages on the tech cam threads here and my head's a buzzing !! and last night was an interesting experience... the last thought I was having when I slept with was "F@% it, what good is the money in bank anyways, if I don't use it !! " :wtf: I think I must have said this aloud in my half'sleep, cause I saw my wife staring at me with eyes wide open in horror !! .....

C'mon in. The water's fine.

:ROTFL:

ken
 

Ken_R

New member
if my exposures were limited to about a minute and half, would I be wise to choose the IQ180 over the IQ260 (both are available here in Melbourne - the IQ180 is pre-owned, obviously) ?

Thanks, fellow Dante-slaves.
I think 90 sec exposures are way too long for high quality results in the IQ160 (for sure, I own one and try to limit exposures to 10 sec or faster) and the IQ180 (from what I have seen. It might be a hair better in longer exposures than the 160 but I would not count on it) you are much better served by the IQ260 for exposures longer than say 15-20 sec. Besides that the IQ160/180 are superb.

I love my tech camera and really there is nothing like a tech camera for landscapes. Once you use one you will feel really odd shooting landscapes with an SLR.
 
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