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Tech Cam advice please !!

lance_schad

Workshop Member
Here is some additional information on the Arca-Swiss system (since there is no website)
Chris Barrett has a nice review of the Arca-Swiss Rm3d (predecessor to the Rm3di which does features a removable "Tum" (lens board with helical and tilt/swing mechanism in Arca-Swiss terms and integration with the e-cloud module). His blog entry shows multiple views of the Arca-Swiss system as well as it compatibility with the rest of their line of view cameras.

Here are a few examples of also why the Arca-Swiss system stands out:
Arca-Swiss uses its own type of Helical and lens (R-Bayonet)mount it allows you to use the same lenses in a 4x5 or 6x9 lens board to be used on a variety of other view camera systems.




The Cambo and Alpa systems use a regular helical focusing mechanism which do not allow the flexibility to use those lenses view camera systems.

Another unique feature of the Arca-Swiss R series is the ability to use a sliding adapter (either Arca-Swiss w/ Rotamount or Kapture Group) or just the Rotamount. This eliminates the need to remove the digital back from the system to use a ground glass or rotate the from portrait to landscape modes.



As Doug mentioned if you are in the NY area or wish to travel we would be more than happy to show you the Arca-Swiss and Cambo systems in person. If you are not we have our Remote Demo Center set up where we can demonstrate all of the features of these systems to you. As long as you have an internet connection. There are a few members of the forum that have taken advantage of this unique service we offer.

Lance (email me)
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
I'm a biased Alpa shooter but I have to agree with Guy that the Sinar Artec certainly appeared to be a fully featured nice piece of gear. Luckily I wasn't able to shoot it as it only had a 23mm lens on it in Acadia - that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.

A very nicely made system with all of the movements and also the benefit of a sliding ground glass. Almost comparable to the Linhof Techno & sliding GG but in a more pancake style of body.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I'm a biased Alpa shooter but I have to agree with Guy that the Sinar Artec certainly appeared to be a fully featured nice piece of gear. Luckily I wasn't able to shoot it as it only had a 23mm lens on it in Acadia - that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.

A very nicely made system with all of the movements and also the benefit of a sliding ground glass. Almost comparable to the Linhof Techno & sliding GG but in a more pancake style of body.

Frankly Graham and I avoided it at all costs. We knew we would love it too much. I shot the 23mm most of the time but used a Cambo. That Artec would have just spoiled the crap out of me. Thats my story and sticking to it. :D

Its the Aston Martin of tech cams. That is one sexy car
 

rupho

New member
There used to be a very informative and civilized thread started by Jack on the ins and outs of tech camera systems where all camps chimed in
It's definitely worth a read if your sitting on the fence

Here is the link

http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-format-systems-digital-backs/29740-tech-cams-choices-one-why.html

As somebody pointed out the ALPA FPS is at least in my book note a tech camera. If you going into tech camera for movements the FPS is not a substitute , I'd say its a great companion

Best of luck

Grischa

Could someone advise me on their experiences as to why they chose their particular technical camera and how they have fared ? Or a link to any previous such discussion on this forum ?
My confusion here likely arises from two factors:

1. the high costs involved - no respite from this
2. equal fervour from different people about different systems.
eg: Dan Lindberg swears by the Alpa (citing precision / tolerance, etc) Rod Klukas, the Arca, citing similar reasons, David Ward talks about the Linhof Technikardan, someone else about cambos...
thus, totally confusing me over the issue.

The Alpa FPS has received some raging reviews and Mal here has been very helpful laying out the possibilities in front of me.

I understand that various players can only cite their experiences with the systems they own, but when you have a few systems, obviously one has to be better than the other.
What I would be looking at: (most likely buying a IQ260 back soon ).
a) Ability to stitch (not sure if I should consider pano head ) instead of shift – any pros and cons regarding why you would prefer one over the other
b) Ability to tilt and swing, though not necessarily at the same time.
c) Some reassurance with inclement weather use. I understand that the back tolerate a good deal of cold. But what about drizzles ? how do the chaps out here tackle water ?

If money was no issue, would any of you gentlemen consider switching from one system to the other ?

So please.... for landscapes and panoramas:
which technical camera and why ?
Which pano head and why ?
Apologies for the long-winded train of thought…

Thanks,
Saty
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
As Doug often points out, he works for a company that sells Arca products.

Without suggesting that one or another of the cameras is better than the others, I wonder how often repairs are necessary. I do know that when you want information from ALPA, you can get it on their website or by contacting ALPA directly.
Yes, and I'm definitely biased as a result.

To clarify, I was definitely NOT implying Alpa service isn't good. In my second-hand experience they take care of their customers quite well.

But the point remains that there are some brands out there that do not have great service in some territories; do your research. Stephan is absolutely right that service isn't needed often in this niche (tech cameras are, after all, plates of metal with knobs - amazingly well designed and elegant though they may be). But you don't want to be stuck waiting months for service if/when you need it.
 

Ken_R

New member
I saw the Sinar ArTec and it is a very nice camera. It has integrated tilt like the Arca RM3Di but it ads a rotating front which is cool. On the Arca you need to click the front off, rotate it and then put it back in. It is no big deal if you don't need to do that too often. The ArTec adds about 5mm additional L/R shift on the back compared to the Arca but has a permanent sliding back adapter. With the Arca you can remove it if you want. It's a more modular system. The ALPAs are also extremely modular and I have seen seemingly endless configurations.

Generally ALPAs are the best for handheld (some models are very small and light with good grips and shutter position) and the Arca Swiss for tripod use due to a great combination of features in a pretty compact and light body. The Cambo is also nice, not as clean in design but has good features and is also quite compact and light. Cost should not be a consideration in these cameras since once you add the features and accessories you need the price is comparable with all systems. Cambo might be the most affordable option if you cut down on extras while ALPAs might be the more expensive.

Its best to try the systems yourself if possible and just get one taylored to your needs and wants. There is really not one solution that is perfect for everyone. That is the great thing about tech cameras, each one is really a custom configuration for you. Think of it as a system not just a camera.
 

Bob

Administrator
Staff member
I have shot with most of them and they do have individual personalities.
Arca and alpa are my faves with cambo following.
Really it is a matter of what features are going to be most important to you.
Making the commitment means a bunch of glass costs associated with the appropriate mount.
One of the features I liked about the arca was that tilt was always available without a special mount.
I have not used but lusted after the Sinar, but now without a back of my own, I am not likely to try it anytime soon.
Best thing IMO would be to rent one or the other with a medium-wide and take it out for a spin.
Frankly, you won't go wrong with any of the top models.
-bob
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
In addition to Bob's points, you might also want to consider if you want a system that includes both cameras with full movements plus a simpler, smaller, lighter travel/field option too.

With Alpa there are various full system cameras such as the Max, STC, SWA but also probably the smallest & lightest travel compact camera, the TC, that will all take the same lenses.

Arca and Cambo have similar options too with the Factum and RC-400.

Arca Factum == Cambo RC-400 & lens tilt board == Alpa STC & T/S adapter
Cambo RC-400 == Alpa STC or SWA
Alpa TC - no built in movements but you can use with a T/S adapter.

As you can see, comparing all the combinations can get very confusing, especially when you consider that there are optional components for all of the systems. You really need to decide what features are essential for you as the basics and then select a system that accommodates those easily and can expand to incorporate other functionality you might want in the future.

Changing systems is very, very expensive if only because each one has their own lens mounts although that's nothing new or different to other parts of the camera industry.
 

satybhat

Member
Graham, Doug, Ken R, Ken D, Bob, Rupho, Guy and all the others: Thanks a lot.

This is amazing information here - just awesome !!!!

And mind boggling at the same time. Have contacted the dealer here ( Specular in Melbourne - heard some good reviews on their service, and not many dealers in this part of Australia ) to give a small demo.

From what I've read over the last few weeks, what it boils down to is this:

a. need to try and see what suits ME best. I'm typically not a big "vista" person, but would like the ability to go wide angle. Alpa = no tilt under 80mm. interesting. So wide landscapes with Alpa are done without ANY tilt at all ? So wider than 80, would it be that Alpa users go hyperfocal for wide scapes ?

b. Cambo. not as "precise" as alpa or arca. I have a feeling that DOF would compensate for micron level tolerance errors. any thoughts on this ? Would thermal expansion and contraction not have an effect at this level for all 3 cameras too ? More availability of Cambo in this part of the world though.

c. Arca: not a big fan of having a look-up table to refer to in the field. Both dealers in Australia shrug their shoulders (one I've visited, one I've heard about ) on arca service and availability. That could be an issue.

More food for thought !!!
 

Dogs857

New member
Didn't realise you were Australian mate.

If you are ever in Brisbane I can show you around an Arca Rm3di. Like you I got the non committal approach from Specular and L & P Digital in Sydney. I'm not sure why but it was a little concerning. I went Arca anyway because it is a fantastic camera.

I tired all the big three (Cambo, Apa and Arca) and there is very little in it to be honest. It comes down to what you prefer to hold and use. I don't find the lookup tables a hinderance at all as I am at infinity or hyperfocal 90% of the time anyway and with the Arca system that makes it dead easy.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Alpa = no tilt under 80mm. interesting. So wide landscapes with Alpa are done without ANY tilt at all ? So wider than 80, would it be that Alpa users go hyperfocal for wide scapes ?
I believe that the widest lens with tilt for the Alpa is now the Rodie 40/4 in SB17 mount with the 17mm t/s adapter.

In answer to your question about DoF, stacking can overcome lack of tilt with the wider lenses but obviously isn't as efficient as a single shot.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Thanks Steve, I stand corrected. I missed the non-FPS mount Alpagon 32mm (Rodie 32).

Perhaps I should have qualified it by the widest that I can reasonably afford or carry :ROTFL:
 

Shashin

Well-known member
b. Cambo. not as "precise" as alpa or arca. I have a feeling that DOF would compensate for micron level tolerance errors. any thoughts on this ? Would thermal expansion and contraction not have an effect at this level for all 3 cameras too ? More availability of Cambo in this part of the world though.
While camera manufacturers like to tout "precision," the Cambo is going to give just as sharp images as that other systems with the same optics. Actually, the issue is not Dof, but depth of focus--the depth at the image plane.

I would go with a system that does what you need with the features you need. they will all result in sharp images. Operator error is more of an issue.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
I wouldn't believe what you hear about cambo lacking precision btw. They are all good. Some just have more industrial design & build. I love my Alpa's fit & finish but I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Cambo nor any other tech camera system I've tried.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Graham pretty much nailed it right there. End of day you get great images from any if them. Photography is all about the glass and now the sensor. The camera truly has very little to do with image, it's basically a adapter between the two. Here it's functions your after.

One thing in short Cambo , Alpa have a focusing system that is pretty standard in the industry. Arca is basically the same but uses a numerical system to accomplish focus.

My words here photographers like the standard and engineers and fiddlers like the Arca. LOL
 

narikin

New member
NOTHING will substitute for actually handling these systems and shooting with them. If you're ever in NYC or want to make a trip of it we can go out and shoot with an Arca and Cambo with you and down the street you can see Alpa all in the same trip.
Yes, if you do take this route, go to Fotocare and see all the Alpa's there. Great camera resource + main Alpa dealer on East Coast.

As somebody pointed out the ALPA FPS is at least in my book note a tech camera. If you going into tech camera for movements the FPS is not a substitute , I'd say its a great companion
Grischa
Yes, the FPS marks new territory that is not available in any other system as yet - a focal plane shutter that allows accurate high speeds and none of that 19th Century stuff of reaching around and cocking some spring to take a picture! And with the next generation CMOS MF backs, with their much faster base ISO's and very usable 800/1600+ asa, it will be essential to have a focal plane shutter option.

The great thing is it completes a full system - you have a tech body for full on architecture movements 2 direction + tilt/swing (Max or XY); a smaller amount of movements in a smaller package (STC, SWA) or no movements at all (save tilt) in a tiny walk-around package (TC); and a high speed focal plane shutter that can use tech camera quality lenses, or your Canon/Nikon lenses, and freeze action if needed.

That is how useful the FPS is - (a) as part of a tech camera system of body options that you to pick and choose according to your needs and job, and (b) allowing huge range of lenses to be used from Canon to Nikon to Hasselblad, or simply a fabulous Rodenstock-Alpa wide on a walk about body, that will give you better results than any Mamiya/Phase wide ever will.
 

Landscapelover

Senior Subscriber Member
Graham, Doug, Ken R, Ken D, Bob, Rupho, Guy and all the others: Thanks a lot.

This is amazing information here - just awesome !!!!

And mind boggling at the same time. Have contacted the dealer here ( Specular in Melbourne - heard some good reviews on their service, and not many dealers in this part of Australia ) to give a small demo.

From what I've read over the last few weeks, what it boils down to is this:

a. need to try and see what suits ME best. I'm typically not a big "vista" person, but would like the ability to go wide angle. Alpa = no tilt under 80mm. interesting. So wide landscapes with Alpa are done without ANY tilt at all ? So wider than 80, would it be that Alpa users go hyperfocal for wide scapes ?

b. Cambo. not as "precise" as alpa or arca. I have a feeling that DOF would compensate for micron level tolerance errors. any thoughts on this ? Would thermal expansion and contraction not have an effect at this level for all 3 cameras too ? More availability of Cambo in this part of the world though.

c. Arca: not a big fan of having a look-up table to refer to in the field. Both dealers in Australia shrug their shoulders (one I've visited, one I've heard about ) on arca service and availability. That could be an issue.

More food for thought !!!
b. Cambo. not as "precise" as alpa or arca. I have a feeling that DOF would compensate for micron level tolerance errors. any thoughts on this ? Would thermal expansion and contraction not have an effect at this level for all 3 cameras too ? More availability of Cambo in this part of the world though.

I have both Cambo (WRS AE. Thanks to Guy!) and Alpa SWA. I don't have the Arca so I can't comment.
I agree with Graham in that the above comment is not accurate, at least for landscape photography. Both of them are precise enough.
Both cameras make no difference in image quality and are very pleasure to work with. The handling of Alpa SWA is a little bit nicer (Like Porche although I've never had one), especially handholding, but has less functionality compared to the Cambo with T/S lens.
You will be very pleased with either one of them and won't want to use the Phase One DF with wide angle lens again.

Pramote
 
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