Few can see that it's a medium format camera either
. Image quality is mostly a photographer's thing, but as a photographer one may happen to like maximize quality despite that it's not really needed. It just feels good.The GetDPI Photography Forum
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Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A
- Thread starter dougpeterson
- Start date
. Image quality is mostly a photographer's thing, but as a photographer one may happen to like maximize quality despite that it's not really needed. It just feels good.It seems to me that the use case for the IQ250 is fashion, wedding and environmental portraiture. There will be other uses obviously, but it looks like this back is targeted at this market segment. Phase have done their research and this is the area they want to target first. Good for them. Its a big segment that could significantly increase their sales. I can totally understand how higher ISO capability and better live view will increase the creative possibilities with this camera. Most pro's I know have a MFD camera and a Canon or Nikon in the bag. This could eliminate the camera in the bag.
In my opinion this is a good step in the right direction. CMOS; the start of live view on a MF sensor; and higher ISO. Add that to the secret sauce in Capture One and Phase could have a great product on their hands. History tells us that a bigger sized sensor will come, but not as the first product onto the market.
Slightly off topic. People are complaining about the functionality of this back because it doesn't fit their own requirements. I don't understand this. If it isn't for you, don't buy it. If a car manufacturer brings out a saloon car and I want an estate, I don't complain about the saloon as if it should have been an estate. That's just crazy. I get that other people will want the saloon and the company is targeting a different market segment from me. To get back to photography as the example, the IQ180 / IQ280 is not for me but I don't see the need to complain about it. Its for a different target audience and that's fine.
In my opinion this is a good step in the right direction. CMOS; the start of live view on a MF sensor; and higher ISO. Add that to the secret sauce in Capture One and Phase could have a great product on their hands. History tells us that a bigger sized sensor will come, but not as the first product onto the market.
Slightly off topic. People are complaining about the functionality of this back because it doesn't fit their own requirements. I don't understand this. If it isn't for you, don't buy it. If a car manufacturer brings out a saloon car and I want an estate, I don't complain about the saloon as if it should have been an estate. That's just crazy. I get that other people will want the saloon and the company is targeting a different market segment from me. To get back to photography as the example, the IQ180 / IQ280 is not for me but I don't see the need to complain about it. Its for a different target audience and that's fine.
The negative tone probably comes because people try to fit this new gadget into their own workflow and it doesn't quite work. I think a critical tone is allowed when you are talking about an investment of this size. If you spend 35k on a back you want to make sure you pick the right one. Same goes for the camera and lens choices.
Shashin
Well-known member
Absolutely, we all have preferences. And quality is just as subjective. A photograph is made up of hundreds of competing factors and it is the photographer's job to make the best choices for the photograph. If a photographer wants to spend his entire career shooting at f/11, that is simply a personal choice and has nothing to do with some abstract concept of quality. I have my own quirks and preferences, but I know they are limits I set for myself, not the limits of photography.Few can see that it's a medium format camera either
stephengilbert
Active member
I haven't read all of this thread, but it sounds like what is too common on the 'net: some product appears that we don't like, and we have to criticize it, whether we're in the market for something like it or not. I can see someone who's been waiting for a live view back to use on an LF or tech camera being disappointed, for their intended uses, but that doesn't make the back a failure.
Presumably the people at Phase have some familiarity with the market. Maybe they were smart. I sure don't know.
Presumably the people at Phase have some familiarity with the market. Maybe they were smart. I sure don't know.
Shashin
Well-known member
Really? I don't want this back, but I see nothing wrong with it. Personal choice. It is not the back's fault. I would simply spend my money somewhere else or wait for a product I want.
GrahamWelland
Subscriber & Workshop Member
At last, we get some sanity in this discussion ...
IMO, for $35k, you should be able to say something more positive about the new back than that "you see nothing wrong with it." I just find it to be an uninspired product, not the kind of groundbreaking product that I expected. Whether the fashion/lifestyle photographers that are presumably the target of this back will give up their Nikons and Canons for it remains to be seen. The marketplace will decide whether this is a really good or not so good product. People will vote with their wallets.
Discussing a new exciting product is to me a form of entertainment, and I also get to learn the priorities and techniques of other photographers which I find interesting.
I will not buy this back as I use legacy stuff to keep down costs. If it had everything I wanted it could be an upgrade path in the future though. I follow new products with great interest as it's a view into the future for me which stay on older backs to keep down cost. I see new products and think, is there an upgrade path or not?
I will not buy this back as I use legacy stuff to keep down costs. If it had everything I wanted it could be an upgrade path in the future though. I follow new products with great interest as it's a view into the future for me which stay on older backs to keep down cost. I see new products and think, is there an upgrade path or not?
Shashin
Well-known member
Not ground breaking? Please point out another MFD product with a CMOS sensor?
Somethings are expensive because they cost a lot to make. I guess there is no difference between a Ford Focus and a Bugatti Veyron: they will both get you to work and be able to reach the speed limit. Maybe the Bugatti has better cup holders, but it still a car. If you have the cash to buy a Bugatti and you want one, who cares that something cheaper will "do the job."
My "lack" of enthusiasm is more to do with being fortunate to have been able to use lots of great cameras and a realization that the grass is not actually greener on the other side of the fence and that putting time into shooting and my skill makes a greater impact than buying new products. Heresy? Probably, but there you have it.
1. A CMOS sensor in and of itself is not particularly significant to me. All I care about is what the camera can and cannot do to facilitate my work as a photographer. I don't care whose name is on the camera or the back. I don't care if it is a Phase, a Hasselblad or a Pentax 645D like some who post here. Would the IQ250 improve my ability to focus accurately? Would it improve my ability to handle high contrast light? Would it offer a lighter and smaller form factor? Would it offer clean, high ISO? I expect that the IQ250 MAY check box 4, but at the cost of a 1.3x crop factor and a lower resolution than what I now have.
2. I am glad you recognize that putting more time into shooting and your skill is more important than buying new products. I agree. However, you do have over three thousand posts here. I dare say you spend much more time posting than I do buying new camera equipment! Think about how much additional time you would have had to work on your photography if you spent less time posting.
3. You completely misunderstand my comments about the IQ250. What's with the Bugatti analogy? I am not shocked or put off by the pricing. I fully expected Phase to come in with a high price for the first medium format digital back with a CMOS sensor. I also do not think Phase is pricing the IQ250 in a way that is unjustified by the R&D costs scaled against the sales volume of these backs. What I am disappointed about is that relatively little is being delivered for $35k when I think about my needs as a photographer. The IQ 250 would have been impressive 4 or 5 years ago. Now, not so much.
4. What I was hoping for was a new mirrorless camera with a full frame 60-80 mp sensor that has the Live View and EVF capabilities and the form factor of the Sony A7R. Maybe it's coming from......Sony!
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
Mind you some of the below are based on the specs and only a few hours of hands on time. I'd want to test it for several days before being to assertive, and more importantly I'd want you to test it yourself to see if these things hold true for you and your use. But based on my brief use:
Very likely yes. Live view on the IQ250 is very significantly ahead of previous IQ2 backs and will provide an excellent means to establish critical focus (I don't know what PDN's article was referring to, but I found focusing via live view to be both straightforward and accurate).
Yes. Better DR than previous backs.
No.
Yes. At least in comparison to any back you've used before. I don't know what your standards are for "high" and "clean". It won't shoot ISO25,600 with the texture of a baby's butt, but it's better than any digital back I've used.
Thanks, Doug. I know that the high IS0, the Live View and the DR of the IQ250 will be "better" than earlier CCD IQ backs. What remains to be seen is how much better, not just compared to the CCD IQ backs, but also the best DSLRs with CMOS sensors from Nikon, Canon and Sony. For me personally, even if these boxes were ticked, I still would not trade my IQ180 for an IQ 250. The crop factor is just a non-starter. The lower resolution is also an issue as I make and sell large prints.
I really do hope Phase is successful with the IQ 250 with what is the likely target audience. I want all of you guys to succeed so you have the resources to make new products.
Shashin
Well-known member
Well, then I would not be able to share my wisdom with you and you would not be able to benefit from it. Aren't you lucky!
But that is what it means to be a part of a community. That is to share. Rather than just come once in a while to get what you want and leave.
So, I guess from your post you agree with me. The back is a tool and if you need it, so be it, if not, move on. Which was my point.
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Pearl of "wisdom" in Post 3091: "The back is a tool and if you need it, so be it..."
Constructive member of the "community" speaking in Post 3091: "...if not, move on."
With all of your experience posting here, I would have thought that you would be better at avoiding ad hominem remarks by now. After all, this is not the Third Reich here with you as the Chancellor telling those whose opinions you dislike to "move on."
GrahamWelland
Subscriber & Workshop Member
Seems to me that it's started to spiral down to certain folks taking the viewpoint that you've got to be insane to want a flexible medium format camera system that can be used anywhere when you could buy a D800 or A7/A7r.
They're never going to buy one and don't see how anyone else would want to shoot and use a medium format system when so many other smaller, cheaper, arguably technically superior solutions exist. However, if you're a MF shooter that doesn't matter a jot IMHO. It was the same when the D800 hit the streets and all the fora were full of people extolling the virtues of that camera and why you must be insane to continue to shoot with MF digital.
Oh well. Personally I think that it's a great step forward in versatility although I will openly admit my bias.
They're never going to buy one and don't see how anyone else would want to shoot and use a medium format system when so many other smaller, cheaper, arguably technically superior solutions exist. However, if you're a MF shooter that doesn't matter a jot IMHO. It was the same when the D800 hit the streets and all the fora were full of people extolling the virtues of that camera and why you must be insane to continue to shoot with MF digital.
Oh well. Personally I think that it's a great step forward in versatility although I will openly admit my bias.
Shashin
Well-known member
Well, I am nonplussed. If you thought my post was a personal attack, then I apologize. There was no intent, but if you found it my text, then I am sorry. I thought I was just trying articulate some things related to your comments. Not about you, but in the way I view equipment and stuff. Apparently, I had done that badly.
Naturally, your followup about the number of my posting was surprising for me. I know a few member think am a NAZI, but more in a fun-loving Mel Brooks kind of way and usually about viewing distance. Although, I kind of agree with mbn, and really don't think that ever makes a good comparison as it really trivializes a brutal period in history and the people who suffered throughout it.