The GetDPI Photography Forum
Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!
Speculation : Sony MF system
- Thread starter citizin
- Start date
Shashin
Well-known member
What is stopping them? The costs and the fact they are not interested, or most likely not invested--why bother going into such a small market? Why would Sony what to buy the rights to the Contax system from Kyocera? I doubt Kyocera has even kept the information to build their cameras and the engineer that knew about the system are gone. Camera systems are not just camera bodies, but lenses. MFD lenses are an expensive proposition. This get more expensive when a company has no experience in a particular field.
Sony is going to make more profit making sensors for the MFD industry than being a player.
Sony is going to make more profit making sensors for the MFD industry than being a player.
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
Nothing was stopping them before they made such a sensor.
They could have purchased sensors from someone else, it's a small fraction of the total cost of the system and would not have put them at any disadvantage against of the current players (Phase, Leaf, Hassy, Leica, Pentax, Sinar, Megavision).
Starting to make the sensors gives them a very small advantage to enter a very small market which would have to be balanced against the extensive list of disadvantages that Will points out above.
Naturally I'm not saying, and could not say, that this won't happen. No one can predict the future, and companies like Sony are very secretive. I'm just saying that if Sony had an interest in the MFD niche it does not have that much more incentive today than yesterday.
The last "new" player to enter medium format digital was Pentax and it took them seven years between when they announced they were going to release a digital 645 until they shipped one to a customer – and they had some pretty decent prior experience in medium format with a range of lenses already designed.
They could have purchased sensors from someone else, it's a small fraction of the total cost of the system and would not have put them at any disadvantage against of the current players (Phase, Leaf, Hassy, Leica, Pentax, Sinar, Megavision).
Starting to make the sensors gives them a very small advantage to enter a very small market which would have to be balanced against the extensive list of disadvantages that Will points out above.
Naturally I'm not saying, and could not say, that this won't happen. No one can predict the future, and companies like Sony are very secretive. I'm just saying that if Sony had an interest in the MFD niche it does not have that much more incentive today than yesterday.
The last "new" player to enter medium format digital was Pentax and it took them seven years between when they announced they were going to release a digital 645 until they shipped one to a customer – and they had some pretty decent prior experience in medium format with a range of lenses already designed.
I think large sensors have a bright future.
The megapixel wars are more or less over, now the marketing thrust will be more towards sensor size. "My sensor is bigger than yours" as a proxy to image quality allows to differentiate yourself easily from the Phone-cameras. Those have pretty much killed the compact camera market, and I suspect will continue to extend.
So Sony developed the RX-100 with a bigger sensor to differentiate itself from the mass of camera-phones and other pocket cameras.
Yet one scale up, the RX-1, an uber-pocket, with Full-Frame chip, and a price tags which you can now justify: yes, it's expensive, but it's Full-Frame. And it has killer image quality.
So I clearly see a spot for an RX-1 on steroids. For starters.
But clearly Sony is hungry, and is targeting the upper-scale camera market. They probably see that unless you are Samsung, there is no money in the low-end camera business.
An MF-DSLR from Sony ? Perhaps not (yet?). They seem more focused on mirrorless right now. But who knows... They have the technology, they have the appetite. But they are also innovators, so perhaps MF-DSLR is too "old school" for them. What about a mirrorless MF system with intechangeable (Zeiss) lenses. So something like an A7R-XXL, with adapters for all autofocus MF lenses. Sounds nice, doesn't it ? ;-)
The megapixel wars are more or less over, now the marketing thrust will be more towards sensor size. "My sensor is bigger than yours" as a proxy to image quality allows to differentiate yourself easily from the Phone-cameras. Those have pretty much killed the compact camera market, and I suspect will continue to extend.
So Sony developed the RX-100 with a bigger sensor to differentiate itself from the mass of camera-phones and other pocket cameras.
Yet one scale up, the RX-1, an uber-pocket, with Full-Frame chip, and a price tags which you can now justify: yes, it's expensive, but it's Full-Frame. And it has killer image quality.
So I clearly see a spot for an RX-1 on steroids. For starters.
But clearly Sony is hungry, and is targeting the upper-scale camera market. They probably see that unless you are Samsung, there is no money in the low-end camera business.
An MF-DSLR from Sony ? Perhaps not (yet?). They seem more focused on mirrorless right now. But who knows... They have the technology, they have the appetite. But they are also innovators, so perhaps MF-DSLR is too "old school" for them. What about a mirrorless MF system with intechangeable (Zeiss) lenses. So something like an A7R-XXL, with adapters for all autofocus MF lenses. Sounds nice, doesn't it ? ;-)
I am not sure about the statement that the megapixel wars are over. I am a studio product shooter and always want more resolution and better LiveView.
No sooner than I was able to print up to 8ft from my aptus2-12, then I started receiving requests for 14ft prints...
But perhaps I am wrong about this.
I like the idea of the IQ250 and looking forward to more MP and more LV functions like Canon's.
Sony will probably stay out of the MF market, IMO. Again, I could be wrong. I still to this day have no idea why they entered the 35mm DSLR market...soooo....I don't have a great track record on these speculative things
No sooner than I was able to print up to 8ft from my aptus2-12, then I started receiving requests for 14ft prints...
But perhaps I am wrong about this.
I like the idea of the IQ250 and looking forward to more MP and more LV functions like Canon's.
Sony will probably stay out of the MF market, IMO. Again, I could be wrong. I still to this day have no idea why they entered the 35mm DSLR market...soooo....I don't have a great track record on these speculative things
Last edited:
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
The megapixels wars are surely not over.
But the war is limited to far fewer fronts.
Studio Product, Landscape, Architecture, Art Repro. I have customers in these genres that would purchase tomorrow if I told them today there was a 300mp single-shot back that otherwise maintained the same quality as their existing system (re: color, tethering speed/stability, durability etc).
But the war is limited to far fewer fronts
.Studio Product, Landscape, Architecture, Art Repro. I have customers in these genres that would purchase tomorrow if I told them today there was a 300mp single-shot back that otherwise maintained the same quality as their existing system (re: color, tethering speed/stability, durability etc).
markymarkrb
New member
I think the interesting part of this "war" is that 35mm full frame has now hit 36mp. The question is then how much more MPs can you cram into the space of a full frame sensor at the expense of affordable lenses? From what I have seen, glass is going to have to get quite a bit better to go beyond the 36MP on a postage stamp. This will deter a big part of their market. In other words, I think they have backed themselves a little into a corner with the 36MP sensors. I love my IQ180 but I can't see me enjoying the look of an image that is smaller than the 5.2 micron size. This is where the MF world has an inherent advantage. The IQ250 is not full frame but the sensor but the IQ3XX will be. MF can keep getting bigger and bigger without shrinking the pixels even up to the image circles of tech lenses. By the way, If someone can talk to the right person to get me a 617 digital sensor, let me know. I hate stitching shots at the beach.
If we're going to see something medium format from Sony at all, I think it would be a Sony RXm, a 44x33mm version of the current RX1, ie a fixed lens compact. One off, low development cost, low risk, and already RX1 (full-frame compact) seemed crazy so an RXm would not surprise me.
An entirely new MF system would surprise me a lot though. Scaling up existing sensor technology to MF size and sell to many manufacturers is one thing, making a whole MF system line with lenses and all is totally different. If so it would be for gaining prestige and respect in the photographic community rather than making money, the actual market is very small.
An entirely new MF system would surprise me a lot though. Scaling up existing sensor technology to MF size and sell to many manufacturers is one thing, making a whole MF system line with lenses and all is totally different. If so it would be for gaining prestige and respect in the photographic community rather than making money, the actual market is very small.
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Mamiya 7 in Mirrorless digital ala Sony would be cool. Doubt it would happen but they have the sensor tech
markymarkrb
New member
If Sony builds a RXM that can be attached with an ALPA adapter to the FPS, watch out.
Kolor-Pikker
Member
Except this is Sony we're talking about, they regularly spend a ridiculous amount of R&D on a wide variety of products, often proprietary technology, that ultimately doesn't catch on in the mass market. Relative to their current strategy, making a camera around vital components that they already manufacture is hardly an investment, and seeing their product release history, they seem to have nothing to lose by doing so. It took a small group of people a couple of years to take the D800E sensor and stuff it into a compact camera, so it isn't unrealistic to see the kind of camera people here wish for made by 2016.
Personally I wouldn't want Sony to use an existing template for the manufacture of a medium format camera, it should be made as a purely digital camera from the ground-up, and not cling to old concepts like optical viewfinders and mirrors, all of which had to deal with the problem of getting around film.
A scaled-up A7r, it's not that hard of a concept to grasp, even for corporate bigwigs.
MaxKißler
New member
At least it wouldn't be the first time that they were making such a move.
stephengilbert
Active member
Sure, no reason for Sony not to make a MF point and shoot. Creating a new camera is easy.
Just ask Phase.
Just ask Phase.
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Let me know when I can stop laughing at that one Stephen
Shashin
Well-known member
First, Sony is losing tons of money. Its current line of cameras seems to imply they need to capture as much of the enthusiast markets as they can to stay profitable. I don't see them splashing out the cash as they did 10 or 20 years ago on R&D. And R&D is scaled to products--cameras don't have great margins and the market is shrinking. They probably sell more a7s than the entire MFD market sells cameras. A niche market is not going to support them. Even corporate "bigwigs" understand data. A scaled up a7 will be too expensive for their market.
MaxKißler
New member
If someone is coming up with a new camera concept, for instance a mirrorless one, in the larger than 35mm playing field I believe it's going to be Sony.
All of the current players are "stuck" with SLR designs that require a certain flange distance (don't get me wrong, I'm totally fine with optical viewfinders, I love 'em!). Sure Phase One or Hasselblad could let go of the mirror box to reduce vibrations etc. but what would be the point? A completely new design approach would require new lens designs aswell and I doubt Phase One or Hasselblad have the financial strentgh to do that. So why not Sony?
They have the funds and they already have experience with the development of photographic devices and they seem eager to try out new ways (SLT, mirrorless etc.).
Whether their MF camera, if there'll ever be one, will satisfy my needs remains to be seen. I don't like mirrorless cameras so far but nevertheless I'd love to see a MF one.