stephengilbert
Active member
Right, Phase needs to match Pentax's prices.
I haven't noticed, but are people demanding that Leica match Sony's?
I haven't noticed, but are people demanding that Leica match Sony's?
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Game changer? Pentax 645 II - 10k USD for 50Mpx CMOS, 3fps, ISO 200k+
- Thread starter Paul Spinnler
- Start date
Well, in the ugly MFD camera competition, this one wins hands down.
In the best looking beauty pageant, Leica S gets the crown, with the Contax 645 as runner up. :thumbs:
- Marc
Shashin
Well-known member
Uh guys, regardless of your aesthetic judgement and your opinion on how camera companies should or shouldn't run their business, I think the new Pentax camera is really interesting. The devil is in the details and I would like to see how they implement dark frames. I really like they essentially let the photographer decide the high ISO. It will be interesting on what they do with the video. And that presents some interesting possibilities.
In my cotton candy and unicorn dreams it does.
Then I wake up in the real world with an empty wallet and a bunch of lumps on my scull from the wife's iron skillet. :ROTFL:
( BTW, I think it is great that Pentax keeps the door open for folks to get into MFD without leaping to far into Dante's Inferno).
- Marc
John Black
Active member
Nah... they just buy an A7r instead (this is meant in jest). Hopefully Pentax/Ricoh will dot a couple other "i's", such as:
1) faster CPU, providing a quick image review
2) reducing the shutter vibration
3) wider spread on the auto-focus points
Also, Pentax / Ricoh would do well to introduce a new zoom lens comparable to the 30-90mm types that Hasselblad and Leica both offer. Pentax could also brush off the dust on the 150/2.8 and 200/4 AF's, give them a refresh (sort of like what Mamiya and Phase One did with the "D" lenses) and round out their lens line up. I'm looking at this 645D II as the Canon 1Ds Mark IV update that I never got from Canon. Not quite apples to apples, but close enough.
John Black
Active member
Especially for the Nikon D3X and Canon 1Ds Mark III crowd that was acclimated to $7999 pricing.
People love their children, and rarely see them through the eyes of others
This is one ugly kid, and diverting attention to someone else's ugly kid ain't working.
- Marc
If Pentax steps up to the US dealer channel and ships this on time it could be a game changer. CI sells the 645D, I wonder if they will pick up this one?
If it is a Sony Chip, I can't believe that Sony can make a separate 40mp chip for Pentax, plus the old 645D was at 39MP.
Lots of things happened on the old 645D, it was 3 years or more late, shipped way after the P65+ was either announced or shipping. Pentax had very few US dealers and warranty support was a bit hard. Their lens lineup in the US was getting rather short. (the 35FA was no longer shipping in the US by the time Pentax finally shipped the 645D). They also stopped shipping the old 35-55 zoom (I can't remember the exact focal here) but it was a mid range zoom and thought to be very good. However both lenses were still sold in Japan for years. Something I never figured out.
If they come out with a few new lenses on the wide end, this camera could do very well, especially if the chip is the same as the 250 Phase One. The range of that chip is pretty amazing!
As for body beauty, I guess it's all up to the beholder, as I don't see the 645D or 645 2014 as ugly at all. I see a functional body with modern AF, modern tilting LCD, view view etc. Looks darn good to me. But I agree with Ken, I would love to see the old wooden handle from the 67, that would be cool.
Paul C.
If it is a Sony Chip, I can't believe that Sony can make a separate 40mp chip for Pentax, plus the old 645D was at 39MP.
Lots of things happened on the old 645D, it was 3 years or more late, shipped way after the P65+ was either announced or shipping. Pentax had very few US dealers and warranty support was a bit hard. Their lens lineup in the US was getting rather short. (the 35FA was no longer shipping in the US by the time Pentax finally shipped the 645D). They also stopped shipping the old 35-55 zoom (I can't remember the exact focal here) but it was a mid range zoom and thought to be very good. However both lenses were still sold in Japan for years. Something I never figured out.
If they come out with a few new lenses on the wide end, this camera could do very well, especially if the chip is the same as the 250 Phase One. The range of that chip is pretty amazing!
As for body beauty, I guess it's all up to the beholder, as I don't see the 645D or 645 2014 as ugly at all. I see a functional body with modern AF, modern tilting LCD, view view etc. Looks darn good to me.
But I agree with Ken, I would love to see the old wooden handle from the 67, that would be cool. Paul C.
Shashin
Well-known member
So why bring it up...People love their children, and rarely see them through the eyes of others
This is one ugly kid, and diverting attention to someone else's ugly kid ain't working.
- Marc
Question:
Does Pentax have any leaf shutter options?
All three of the high priced systems have this in spades … Hasselblad, Phase One, Leica S. Sorry, can't live without that.
However, even without leaf shutter lenses or ability, Pentax should pull a Leica and offer fully operational H mount, Contax 645 mount, and … (he, he) … Leica S mount adapters.
Ugly or not, I'd grab one of these for $10K if I could use my Hasselblad 100/2.2 or a Contax 80/2, or a Hassy 30-90 zoom, or my Leica S120/2.5 Macro in full operational mode with exif info and all that. :thumbs:
I think Pentax would not be able to keep up with demand.
- Marc
Shashin
Well-known member
Supposedly, Pentax will do that.
What problems do you have with your 645D? I have found the dampening very good.
That would be nice. If they have live view, it would be interesting if they also have contrast detect AF with that.
bensonga
Well-known member
Wow....is the Phase One DF+ body really that expensive? I can certainly see paying more for a detachable MFDB, but $6k for the body with no back? That seems a little high. What are they thinking? :loco:
Gary
Happy just to have my 645D I.
Landscapelover
Senior Subscriber Member
Be careful Will!
You've started a war my friend! There are many Hassie H fans around here and I am one of them. I think it's a beautiful camera.
But I still like you
Pramote
bensonga
Well-known member
Beauty is certainly in the eye of the beholder. I don't find the 645D ugly at all and it is supremely comfortable to hold and use.Well, in the ugly MFD camera competition, this one wins hands down.
In the best looking beauty pageant, Leica S gets the crown, with the Contax 645 as runner up. :thumbs:
- Marc
On this point however we do agree....the Leica S is the best looking camera by far. :thumbs:
Gary
Quentin_Bargate
Well-known member
Anyone investing in Medium format is investing in a system, not just a body. The Pentax might be a good camera but its likely irrelevant to anyone with an investment in Hassy or Mamiya mount lenses. And for pros, the price is secondary to system support.
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
Notably this is, as far as I can tell, just rumor, and not actual product information. But sure, let's go ahead and take it at face value...
First, I think it's great and a net positive for everyone that Pentax would do a nice crop-CMOS camera. MFD is a small sliver of the overall market and everyone in it (Phase, Leaf, Leica, Hassy, Pentax) benifit when more photographers hear about, try, or purchase medium format. The main path to growth for anyone in MFD is to increase the size of the pie by getting another 1% of the total market. As much as the narrative is more fun to enjoy when it's billed as P1 vs Hassy or P1/Leaf/Hassy vs Pentax the truth is the narrative is more [all MFD] vs "good enough".
Second, this is nearly post-for-post the same conversation that takes place every time a new camera is released in the lower-end pricing range. Go back and read the posts here or any other forum when the 1D, 1Ds2, Mamiya ZD, D3X, 5D2, D800, or Pentax 645D was announced/rumored/shipped. Basically some people say the sky is falling. Yet Phase One has done *better* and better (revenue/profit/product-quality) every year since the financial crises.
Notably to this thread this has included the years for which Pentax had offered a roughly $10k Pentax 645D at 40MP which was more or less the same sensor as in the H4D-40 and similar (at least in spec) to the p40+ and IQ140.
Someone said earlier the only difference would be flash sync and wireless tethering and tech camera compatibility. Here's a continuation of that list in no particular order:
Capture One compatibility (both for tethering and for raw processing where the algorithms have been fine tuned with great effort to get the most out of the camera), tethering experience and speed (not all "usb3" cameras will have the same actual tethering speed, a lot depends on the quality of the usb3 implementation and internal processing speed of the camera), color profiles, quality of the high ISO (specs are meaningless here, if/when hassy and Pentax ship a comparable camera we will have to compare the final resulting images at high ISO. And don't assume because one company has spec'd a higher ISO setting that they are getting better quality at high ISO). Availability in rental houses and rental studios as a main camera or backup to a personally owned camera, familiarity of digital techs and assistants in major and minor markets, quality and speed of professional support/repair in a particular market, quality and variety of made-for-digital lenses, look/feel of camera, burst speed/depth (very very few MF shooters need 3fps, but many want sustained shooting which has no buffer limit and want review of the last image to be immediate even when a long burst is shot), fast focus mask in the back (useful for fashion, but amazingly useful for sheimflug movements, double tap for 100% focus review on a specific area without having to first zoom then second scroll around, customizable highlight warning, variety of grid overlays including user movable guides, metadata entry for at-time-of-capture horizon/pitch for automatic batch correction of perspective and horizon, FireWire 800 in addition to usb3 (nice as a backup and for longer cable lengths including a manufacturer approved 33' cable), extremely high build quality with great history of durability and longevity (we have many h25 users still despite being 11 years old) compatibility with 3rd party cameras like the RZ, Contax, Fuji 680, etc with unique features like waiste level viewfinders and built in movements and dedicated fan bases.
O, and yes, flash sync speed, wireless review/control, and tech/view camera compatibility.
The point is the sky didn't fall before (quite the opposite actually) and isn't falling now. But we are, as quality-discerning photographers getting more and different options, and that's great news for everyone.
First, I think it's great and a net positive for everyone that Pentax would do a nice crop-CMOS camera. MFD is a small sliver of the overall market and everyone in it (Phase, Leaf, Leica, Hassy, Pentax) benifit when more photographers hear about, try, or purchase medium format. The main path to growth for anyone in MFD is to increase the size of the pie by getting another 1% of the total market. As much as the narrative is more fun to enjoy when it's billed as P1 vs Hassy or P1/Leaf/Hassy vs Pentax the truth is the narrative is more [all MFD] vs "good enough".
Second, this is nearly post-for-post the same conversation that takes place every time a new camera is released in the lower-end pricing range. Go back and read the posts here or any other forum when the 1D, 1Ds2, Mamiya ZD, D3X, 5D2, D800, or Pentax 645D was announced/rumored/shipped. Basically some people say the sky is falling. Yet Phase One has done *better* and better (revenue/profit/product-quality) every year since the financial crises.
Notably to this thread this has included the years for which Pentax had offered a roughly $10k Pentax 645D at 40MP which was more or less the same sensor as in the H4D-40 and similar (at least in spec) to the p40+ and IQ140.
Someone said earlier the only difference would be flash sync and wireless tethering and tech camera compatibility. Here's a continuation of that list in no particular order:
Capture One compatibility (both for tethering and for raw processing where the algorithms have been fine tuned with great effort to get the most out of the camera), tethering experience and speed (not all "usb3" cameras will have the same actual tethering speed, a lot depends on the quality of the usb3 implementation and internal processing speed of the camera), color profiles, quality of the high ISO (specs are meaningless here, if/when hassy and Pentax ship a comparable camera we will have to compare the final resulting images at high ISO. And don't assume because one company has spec'd a higher ISO setting that they are getting better quality at high ISO). Availability in rental houses and rental studios as a main camera or backup to a personally owned camera, familiarity of digital techs and assistants in major and minor markets, quality and speed of professional support/repair in a particular market, quality and variety of made-for-digital lenses, look/feel of camera, burst speed/depth (very very few MF shooters need 3fps, but many want sustained shooting which has no buffer limit and want review of the last image to be immediate even when a long burst is shot), fast focus mask in the back (useful for fashion, but amazingly useful for sheimflug movements, double tap for 100% focus review on a specific area without having to first zoom then second scroll around, customizable highlight warning, variety of grid overlays including user movable guides, metadata entry for at-time-of-capture horizon/pitch for automatic batch correction of perspective and horizon, FireWire 800 in addition to usb3 (nice as a backup and for longer cable lengths including a manufacturer approved 33' cable), extremely high build quality with great history of durability and longevity (we have many h25 users still despite being 11 years old) compatibility with 3rd party cameras like the RZ, Contax, Fuji 680, etc with unique features like waiste level viewfinders and built in movements and dedicated fan bases.
O, and yes, flash sync speed, wireless review/control, and tech/view camera compatibility
.The point is the sky didn't fall before (quite the opposite actually) and isn't falling now. But we are, as quality-discerning photographers getting more and different options, and that's great news for everyone.
Last edited:
Shashin
Well-known member
Well, I am much more interested in the beauty that comes out of your camera. I like everyone, regardless of the beauty of their equipment.Be careful Will!
You've started a war my friend! There are many Hassie H fans around here and I am one of them. I think it's a beautiful camera.
But I still like you
Pramote
Peace,
Will
I would never have guessed this, judging from your childish remarks about the choice of camera equipment that others make.
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Lol
:watch:
This one should fun. Bottom line is whatever the market decides. I think its great to have the competition out there.
:watch:
This one should fun. Bottom line is whatever the market decides. I think its great to have the competition out there.
kdphotography
Well-known member
Whoa, wait a minute, Guy. Is this the one----the one camera that you haven't owned yet? The Pentax 645D?
The 645D II could be you. Well, maybe just for a few weeks. :ROTFL:
The 645D II could be you. Well, maybe just for a few weeks. :ROTFL: