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Wide Angle for Phase One DF.

postman

Member
I want to acquire a wide angle lens to use on a Phase One DF, currently sporting a P45+, but in the near future an IQ260. I'm wondering what people are using. I use Capture One Pro so a lens that can be corrected/corrected additionally in software would be nice.

It would also be nice if it could get wet without failing too.

thanks in advance,
garry.
 
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Nutcracker

New member
The new SK 28mm for P1 is a very nice one.
If you are not satisfied with it, there is the alternative of taking your back off the P1DF, mounting it on Alpa/Arca etc with HR32!
 

lance_schad

Workshop Member
I want to acquire a wide angle lens to use on a Phase One DF, currently sporting a P45+, but in the near future an IQ260. I'm wondering what people are using. I use Capture One Pro so a lens that can be corrected/corrected additionally in software would be nice.

It would also be nice if it could get wet without failing too.

thanks in advance,
garry.
Here is a link to some tests that we shot of a scene in Central Park that compares the Rodenstock 32HR , 28mmLS LS on Phase One DF and 28mm D on Phase One DF.

Digital Transitions 28mm LS/D and 32HR Tests

Lance
 

postman

Member
@Nutcracker Thanks for the pointer. I'll check it out. I am already an Arca RM3DI and view camera user. Sometimes though I need to move a little faster and in environments that make the Arca impractical.

@Lance I'll checkout the tests.. thanks for that link.

I have heard bad things about the Leaf Shutters and long term reliability. Long term being greater than 1 year.
 

alajuela

Active member
Hi

I don't know how wide you want to go. You did say DF so I am not assuming a tech camera -- I have the 28 Schneider, but I really like the the Phase 45D.

If tech, then I have thought about the 23 - I have the 28 Rodi, but again the one I really like the best is the 40HR. The 40 give you ability to shift - the 23 and 28 - not so much. The 32 is supposed to be great, but having the 40 was to close in focal lenght and also the 32, being so big, and I have heard "delicate" I opted for the 28hr.

Thanks

Phil
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
The performance of either the LS or non LS 28mm is about the same, as there is no difference to the layout of the elements.

On a P45+ with the 1:1 crop, I found the 28mm (Mamiya version but again the same lens), ok from F11 to F16. I am always looking for a wide view that is corner to corner sharp, with little smearing/noise. The 28mm will smear pretty badly from F4.5 to F8 and then it starts to get better, again this is on the P45+.

On a 60MP back, the 28 shows that it really can't keep up at all until around F14 to the corners. What was soft in the F4.5 to F8 range on a P45+ is now smeared and worthless, requiring a crop to about a 1:3 size. As has been said many times, the 28mm on a full frame back is a great 35mm lens. And I agree with that. Also if you take it much past F16 you start to get diffraction softness so it's a very narrow range.

The lens is not filter friendly, not sure if you are a filter user. Requires some form of a modified Lee or Cokin holder unless Phase One did ship the custom filter holder that was mentioned at Photokina 2 years also. I have never seen any mention of it so not sure if it ever became real. It looked like it was made by Lee and was similar to the SW150 mount they make for the Nikon 14-24. Looked like it would hold 2 filters.

The DT comparison between the 28mm and 32 Rod is also pretty telling. It's worth looking at.

As mentioned already, the 32mm Rod is the overall best performer, if you go tech, but it's very heavy, delicate, and of course expensive. Based on the results I looked at from the DT IQ1250 testing, the shots would have definitely benefited from having the CF installed and for that add another 1K or so.

New the LS 28mm is cost to 4.5K last time I checked.

I have the Rod 28mm, love it. Excellent lens only limited by the 70mm image circle and the built in vignetting device, which you hit on a full frame sensor at around 6mm of shift. The lens would easily go to 10mm maybe 12mm if Rodenstock had no placed this hard vignette edge inside the lens. Never will understand that.

Paul C.
 

Egor

Member
I like it. Yes the 32HR is better, but I guess I just wouldnt go so far as to call the corners of the 28's "worthless" ;) Looks pretty good to me, and I just dont see a tech camera in my future. I do have a Sinar P2, but the DF is so much easier to deal with. And I would be using 80MP back probably.
I would like to try this lens out someday (28LS as I assume its primary function for me will be arch interiors and the leaf shutter will be better for balancing lights. However, if all I can afford is the 28D that would be fine, I would just double expose and mask I guess)
Also, why is the 32mm capture area smaller than the 28?? Shouldnt it be the other way around? Or did I miss something?
 
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Egor

Member
Thanks Paul. I guess I just dont understand. If it was a 100mm lens, would not the leaves on the tree be larger than if shot with a 28mm lens? Thats my thinking anyway. All are full frame, no?

In any case, its a minor thing. Just got an assignment that I would love this lens for (need the drama of extreme wide for a product shot) but also need big res as it will be a huge poster in the store.
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
Thanks Paul. I guess I just dont understand. If it was a 100mm lens, would not the leaves on the tree be larger than if shot with a 28mm lens? Thats my thinking anyway. All are full frame, no?

In any case, its a minor thing. Just got an assignment that I would love this lens for (need the drama of extreme wide for a product shot) but also need big res as it will be a huge poster in the store.
Actually now that I re-read it the image from the 32 would bring the leaves in closer. Glad that Peter mentioned the framing being different.

Paul C
 

ondebanks

Member
I'm seriously impressed with the M645 24/4 ULD fisheye, which of course needs to be "de-fished" in software for a normal rectilinear look. It's no longer available new but minty samples like mine turn up sometimes, and it's also the least expensive option under 35mm focal length.

Ray
 

sc_john

Active member
Anyone have experience with Phase One D AF 35mm f/3.5? The 28mm's are probably a bit too wide for me.

John
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
I use the Phase One AF D 35/3.5 and the 28mm too.

The 35mm is convenient in so far as it will take filters but it's definitely a lens that has a reputation as being sample dependent and it is somewhat soft/smearing in the corners unless stopped down. Generally speaking a crop from a 28mm shot is better than a full frame from the 35mm in my experience but it depends on your usage. The 35mm is a more convenient size to pack in the bag too.
 

sc_john

Active member
Graham,

Thanks for your comments. When you say "stopped down" for 35/3.5, if stopped down to f/8 or f/11, do the corners clean-up satisfactorily. Comments in this thread seem to indicate that the 28 also needs to be stopped down for satisfactory corners. My usage will be landscapes with IQ260. My widest lens is currently LS 55/2.8, which I am very pleased with. However, something wider would be good.

Thanks.

John
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
I'd consider f/8 the absolute minimum for sharp corners and I'll use f/11 or f/16 if the corners matter. Of course, you are then already into the realms of diffraction, especially if you go any further. It's a trade off and unfortunately the 35 AF gets a bad rap due to comparisons to tech camera lens.

Stopping down the 28mm for the corners is a reality also. However, if you're taking a crop equivalent to the view of a 30 or 35mm it isn't so important. That said, it's not always easy to think that way when composing.
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
I actually like the Phase 35mm D lens--it's a focal length that I like better than the 28mm. It's a good lens, but not a stellar lens. Does well stopped down. If I want better, I know I need to bring out the technical camera. I find myself not using the Phase 35mm D nearly as often now.

ken
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
I liked the 35mm AF A LOT until I upgraded to the IQ 160. It's z compact lens and will easily take a 2 stack of 77mm filters.

Personally I don't think there is any difference between the D version and older Mamiya AF. Versions, as number of elements and groups are the same.

Definitely a lot of sample variation.

For sure I would try to rent both of these lenses, the 35 and 28mm and see what your results show you.

The 60mp sensor of the the 260 will not be very forgiving with either.


Paul C
 

ondebanks

Member
The main problem with the 35/3.5 lens - which is optically unchanged (bar coatings) from the first "C" version in the late 1970s, through the "N" version of the mid-1980s and the "AF" version of the late 1990s, and also probably the "D" version of the late 2000s - is field curvature. In a shot of a 3-d landscape, you can actually see the "plane" of focus start off on distant central objects and then bend back towards closer objects off-axis. The only way to get decent focus on distant things off-axis is through depth of field i.e. stopping down a lot, as Graham says.

Ray
 

postman

Member
I (often) use a Rodenstock 35mm on an Arca Swiss RM3Di, but there are times when carrying the Arca and ALL that goes with it, especially in weather, when the Arca is less practical than the DF and suitable lenses. Almost of all the work for this lens would be Landscapes. Mostly away from the vehicle. I currently use a Lee Filter set ( mostly graduated filters ) and a bunch of step-down/up adapters. I currently also use a 77mm variable ND from Singh-Ray.

From what people have written ( and thank-you to everybody who responded ) I have a few choices and a lot of compromises. I'll contact Calumet here in the Bay Area to see what they have to rent.

Is there anything from another manufacturer that I can use on the Phase One DF that might give me good quality? I am not familiar with what is available in terms of adapters.


Thanks,
garry.
 
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