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Selling the S2 = stupidity?

jaree

Member
I have been rethinking my gear for a couple of months now. Recently got the Sony A7, very happy with its colors and overall look. Sold the M9 as I got tired of focus issues with rangefinder and lens calibration.

Now on to the S2: I have the S2 + 35/70/120/180 lenses. I don't use them much (size and weight issues), but when I do, the colors and rendering are just amazing to my eyes. Generally I take the S2 with me once or twice a year when I go on road trips.

I like to take landscape photos and clearly my skill is way below what is needed to take advantage of the S2 to the fullest. Having said that, I find its output very pleasing and more "organic" if it makes sense.

I am thinking of selling the S2 and lenses and getting the Sony A7R for use existing APO R-100MM, Summilux-R 80MM and some other older R lenses. Primary reason to lighten the load. No financial reason to sell at this point.

FWIW, I got the S2 relatively cheap and it underwent a complete overhaul in Solms Germany last year, free of cost. Lenses were also bought almost at 50% off retail in as new condition.

I am not a pro and do not make a living from photography.

Decision 1: Keep the S2 and lenses, even though it gets marginal usage and enjoy the system for next few years.

Decision 2: Sell S2 system and get the A7R to use with Leica R lenses and hope that it can render pretty much close to S2's output (not resolution, but overall "look")

Thoughts welcome...

-- Eeraj
 
I'd absolutely keep the S2 and work on using it more. Push yourself to gain the skills to get the most out of it. I think you'll be much happier in the end.

Robb
 

Ocean

Senior Subscriber Member
I have been using A7R with Leica R lenses and thinking about upgrading to S system.
 

dchew

Well-known member
I don't see a good reason to sell the S2. If you feel you are not getting the most out of the S2, you may find the same thing with the a7r compared with the a7.

If you really want the a7r, could you sell your least-used S lens and use that to purchase the a7r?

Dave
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I would do this since I already have myself but go buy the A7r go out run a test. Run the lens equivalents that you already have . Shoot them at 5.6 so it's not so much lens dependent but more sensor and processing. Make the absolute best image you can make with processing than compare the images if its lets say 20 or 30 percent better than keep it but if its close and the differences are small and given the pros and cons of each system and your use than you may figure out the answer. Money for you is not so much the issue but for me it is so my wallet will dictate it more but given your needs you may have a better outlook on it afterwards. I'm with David maybe sell one lens to offset it. Also huge deals on the Sonys right now.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I have the S2 and the same lenses you have, except mine are the CS versions because I also use lighting. I also use a Hasselblad HC/100/2.2 via the H to S adapter for a lot of portrait work. I am phasing out professional work, and the S2 is now more of a personal system … so it has nothing to do with being a pro or not.

I also have the Sony A7R, all three of the currently available FE Zeiss lenses (35/55/24-70), plus use a Leica M21/1.4ASPH, M50/0.95, M75AA … and using the LEAE4 adapter for an entire range of Zeiss A mount lenses including the terrific ZA135/1.8.

So, I'm vest in both and hopefully can share a straightforward opinion.

IMO, in no way does the Sony deliver the look and feel of the S2/S or CS lenses … no matter what lens I bolt to the A7R.

The Sony A system is a ton of fun, it's small enough to promote spontaneously taking it with you, and the IQ is obviously pretty good.

However, I see absolutely nothing special enough to compel me to use it in place of the S2 for things that matter to me. How the two sensors render in conjunction with lenses is an apples and oranges comparison.

The A7R is a knock around camera that's good enough to get a nice image should I run across something special to shoot … (which I will then wish I had shot with the S2 later in post production ;)). Obviously, it does do duty as a higher ISO camera compared to the S2, so there is that aspect to consider depending on where and when you tend to shoot … but I place that squarely in the "Horses for Courses" mode of thinking.

BTW, I despise the Sony operating ergonomics (on all their cameras) compared to the S2's simplicity.

If I made any move to lighten the load, it'd be to lighten the mental load of too much gear … I'd sell all of the Sony stuff to fund a S45/2.8, then wait until Leica announces the next S body because it is the lenses that set the S apart, and are the biggest investment. These lenses will be relevant far into the future. Sony stuff is here today, gone tomorrow.

My advice, keep the S2 and add the A7 or A7R and some FE glass that was made for it, and use it as intended.

Don't be lazy, start using the S … if you don't have a monopod, get one … they are magical.

Just my 2¢

- Marc
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
If it was me, I wouldn't. If my car had any value, I would sell it to get an S2 and some lenses. Unfortunately, selling my car would probably only get me a lens cap or two.

In your case, if size and weight are issues, sell it. Those issues will only increase over time, and should you change your mind, you can always buy another one. The price of the S2 won't go up.
 

jaree

Member
Wow...great feedback. Wasn't expecting so many inputs so quickly.

Robb - point taken about improving PP skills.

Dave, Guy - yes, I do have one lens that is used the least, the 35mm.

And Guy, yes, I did some comparisons with S2 and A7 (not R). Resolution with a7+R 100 a close match to the S2 + 120mm, but overall "look" very different. Esp, wide open no comparison, OOF just melts like rich dark chocolate on the S2 (I recall reading somewhere that DOF for the 120mm on S2 is less than the Noctilux on the M9)

Marc - thanks for the detailed thoughts. I have been debating the monopod for a while now, I guess it is time to get it and use the S2 a bit more. I agree about S2's simplicity - setting to full MF, yet being able to AF via the rear button is genius in my view and my favorite "feature".

Jorgen - size/wt are a consideration, esp when hiking. Having said that, I was crazy enough to carry the S2 with tripod and beastly lenses in Glacier National Park, Montana and hiked with it for 8 miles one day over very difficult terrain. Truth be told, some of my favorite pics from that trip came from the S2 + 180mm Elmar.

I guess I will keep the 70/120/180 lenses at the very least.

Thanks again for the feedback.
 
Keeping the lenses is a great idea, because with Photokina looming over September, you can be sure Leica will come out with a new S camera, this means prices for the 006 will drop and you will be able to upgrade for the enhanced features it offers, or maybe even stretch for the new(er) S if it turns out to something amazing. Either way, you'll be able to breathe new life into your S glass if you stick with it... from the few times I got to use the Leica S, if I had S lenses I'd never sell them.

If you are worried that a monopod might slow you down, Manfrotto makes a model with a trigger that lets you instantly extend and adjust it to any height - no twisting or unlocking tabs.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
A few more opinions (as if you needed more … :ROTFL: ).

I would NOT sell the S2 or the lenses. You've already said it isn't a financial need.

IF Leica decides to launch a new S camera it is sure to be a CMOS sensor, probably a CMOSIS version rather than the Sony one being used by other MFD makers. That may or may not preserve the look and feel you and others like about the system (including me). The move to CMOS with the Leica M240 was met with either "love it" or "hate it" reactions amongst long time M users. I'm in the latter camp, and the M240 is the first Leica M issue I did not buy into.

Even IF a CMOS S is good, it'll be some time before it is all sorted out. I didn't buy into the S system at first after testing it, and it took almost 2 years before it got sorted out to give us what we have now. So, we are looking at as much as 2 to 2.5 years before it's a compelling move up … unless we want to be a Guinea Pig, early adopter.

As to lightening the load, there are ways to squeeze more use out of the S kit. IMO, it is usually not necessary to carry the whole damed kit every time you want to shoot with it. We all have an idiotic compulsion to take everything "just in case"' rather than disciplining ourselves to go do studies with one lens. A S2 with a lens in a sling bag isn't that crushing of a load.

I also added a Camadapter dual lug ARCA plate so I can have a hand strap and a shoulder strap because I carry a camera for up to 8 hours for work. A wide elastic type shoulder strap makes a huge difference, and acts like a shock absorber.

For the times where photography isn't the primary purpose for an outing, I can take a A7R and zoom to shoot all those happenstance images.

- Marc
 

jaree

Member
Marc - I agree about the special "look" and hence I also skipped the M240. I don't care too much about high ISO - it helps, but is not a deal breaker. Thanks for the tips on lightening the load. My favorite lens is the Summarit-S 120MM and I guess I can live with carrying just that on most trips and add another if really needed or just make do with the A7 + 24-70 zoom as a secondary "lens".

Best,

Eeraj
 

Ken_R

New member
Marc - I agree about the special "look" and hence I also skipped the M240. I don't care too much about high ISO - it helps, but is not a deal breaker. Thanks for the tips on lightening the load. My favorite lens is the Summarit-S 120MM and I guess I can live with carrying just that on most trips and add another if really needed or just make do with the A7 + 24-70 zoom as a secondary "lens".

Best,

Eeraj
Supposedly the M240 has much less focusing issues than the M9.

Honestly I find carrying large and heavy gear on trips a total hassle. If not for the extra size and weight, for the worry of theft / damage. A light kit is always very good to have.

I do however find my tech camera / MFDB kit compact and light enough for travel. But, if I were not a professional and sold prints for income I would probably not be lugging it around.

Gear decisions are very personal so its hard to give specific advice in that regard other than if you are considering a given system (camera and / or lens) to try it if you can!
 

stephan_w

New member
having both, the same setup as you for the S2( but i wish I had bouth it with 50% off), and the A7R with some M-glass (and the faboulous 55/1.8), I just second what marc said.

The Sony is pure fun, I have it always with me and i'm thinking of selling the M9 and the MM for it, but I would never give away the S2 for whatever may come around (well, a S3 maybe).

Of course, the Sony 55 is superbe, but that's all today what Sony has to offer to match this sensor, so in my opinion it is to early to invest in this system, also service and reliability has to be proven.

In fact, I'm actually completing my lens line-up for the S. Any tips where you can get that 50% discount?
 

Paratom

Well-known member
I thinka the mistake many people make in comparisons is to look mainly at resolution and dr.
I own various cameras ( not A7 though) incl. a M and M9p, a canon 5diii and others. The one stands out in regards of iq is the S form the same reasons you mention (smooth transitions between focal plane and background, same true for tonality.)

I can carry the S with 2 lenses in a backpack on a hike without any problems for 3 hours.
i would recommend using the S2 more often.

recently i have added a 45mm lens - the plan is to sometimes just bring the S with 45mm.

For those times you want a smaller kit you still have the Sony.

Besides the benefit of the IQ I also enjoy the large optical viewfinder and also the straight forward user interface.
Just one small thing I don't like: the AF sometimes hints a bit until it is locked.
 
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jaree

Member
In fact, I'm actually completing my lens line-up for the S. Any tips where you can get that 50% discount?
EBay and patience are your friends. See these recent transactions:

Leica Summarit s 70 mm F 2 5 Aspherical Lens 4022243110557 | eBay


Leica APO Macro Summarit s 120 mm F 2 5 APO Lens 4022243110700 | eBay

Obviously do your due diligence about the seller. I bought mine from eBay, 3 from a person who turned out be from a fashion studio in NYC, so I did an in-person transaction.

Eeraj
 

baudolino

Active member
I wouldn't sell the S2, either. I just added the 180 lens to my arsenal two weeks ago. I am an amateur, too, and also don't use my S2 all the time. In fact, I am now contemplating selling my M240 and getting a second hand M9 again instead, for when I don't want to carry the S2 (my third M9 it would be...). The M240 is so much more competent than the M9...but I usually like the images from the M9 more, right out of the camera. Anyway, I can fit the S2 body, with 35, 70 and 180 (or 120) lens in an F-stop Loka rucksack, with the medium sloping insert, leaving plenty of room for other stuff in the context of a full-day hike. In combination with a monopod, it's doable. I've also done family holidays with just the S2 body and the 70mm lens, or an Africa trip with just the 35 and 120 lenses. It's very true that you don't need to bring the whole system with you all the time. The point about a new CMOS S model coming is also a valid one; a CMOS sensor with higher clean ISO would be very welcome here (the S needing fast shutter speeds and the lenses having very shallow DoF at close to wide open). I hope they retain the rendering of the S2, though, and we don't end up with just a bigger M240 sensor....
 

erlingmm

Active member
Confirming what others have said, with a few more comments:
- I have travelled a lot with the S2 (Barcelona, NYC, Vegas, SF, Norwegian mountains), I have both the case (great for flights and car), and the Billingham 555 which is enormous and can carry a PC too.
- For walk-round I usually had 120 and 30, one lens on the body, one in a wide pocket of a jacket
- I have added the 30-90 zoom, very versatile, one lens enough, greatly extends the use of the S2, but needs light, can be supplemented by 120
- The 30-90 is expensive, the Hasselblad zoom with adapter may be an alternative
- I could have sold the 30mm, but the market is limited, and the pros get VAT refund which lowers the used prices.
- 180 is a great lens, too, but needs high shutter speed when handheld
- I have also skipped the M240, I have the MM and am happy with this kit, gives me all options
PS: I did not have high expectations for high ISO on the S2, but it is better than I anticipated, with some NR applied
 

pesto

Active member
We all have different needs, that is what makes life interesting. I am in the process of trying to sell my entire S2 P kit so as to purchase a technical camera while maintaining some semblance of domestic tranquility…there is no right or wrong here just individual preferences.
 

GMB

Active member
I second many things that Paratom, boudolino, and erlingmm have said. I use my S2 as much as I can have been with it to Sri Lanka, Sicily, Florida, Wyoming & Montana, Provence, etc. Best I have a fairly complete lens inme up 24, 35, 70, 120, 180, and 30-70 (not bought at 50% discount though :cry:). I also have have the M9, which I like a lot but which is no match for the S2, and which I use much less than the MM these days.

I normally don't carry the whole line up with me. In fact, I mostly go out with the 30-90 which is sooooo good for what I shoot. For my next trip to Spain, I think I will take that lens, the 24 (it's my newest kid on the block and i really need to test it, the 120, and the 70). Anyway, this system is there to stay with me. I adore the IQ and the simplicity of the use. The only thing I sometimes contemplate is a tech camera set up but I can't master it all because I don't have the time for that.
 
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