Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

[bensonga]

Hi Brad. I certainly wasn't blown away by these sample images either. I did download and print a couple of the images on 13x19 inch paper and they look pretty good. I'm looking forward to seeing some better images in the future...perhaps from GetDPI members. Any volunteers?

Gary

 

[Pics2]

For many 8K or 30K price makes no difference. Both are too high. We are forgetting that the most expensive consumer level DSLRs are 3k and average amateur or pro photographers are not willing to pay more for a camera. That's why I think that this Pentax will not change much in DSLR market.

 

[tjv]

Samples look very "digital", like NR is too high and detail is lost, or JPG compression has ruined the subtle tone? Is that just me?

 

[jon11]

as a pentax owner both dslr and 645d am very happy to hear this new. the camera seems fabulous but i want check the samples to see if the ccd magic is gone.
anyway i think i will buuy the camera in the medium future.
in my opinion pentax can change the market really with three fundamental steps

1- produce new lenses at affordable cost. if they can produce camera at 1/4 the cost they can lower a bit the price. The fa lenses are amazing, not all but most, but they shall introduce maybe new fa with silent focus and stabilizer.
2-Leaf lenses. They had in the past. we don't need every lens in the line up with leaf capability, just the 35 55 75 and 120 or 150. the original lenses cost new 1000 to 1900 dollar. make them 500 more expensive for leaf version, like phase one and pentax line hop will be great
3-lot of cheap solution for medium format in the used market. thousand of medium format camera who wait the right inexpensive back. if they can sell a complete camera for less than 8400 dollar at starting price, we must expect the sony sensor can be as low as 1000 dollar. they have all the technology to produce a digital back to be used with old 645 n cameras and many other medium format camera, included view and tech camera. do different version for different sensor. starting at 10000 for the 80 million pixel to 4500 for the 50 million.
4- improve support system.all in all i have the 645d and never had problems. in addiction with the same money of iq250 you can buy three 645z so no problem to leave without body for an important job. the need for fast support will become irrelevant.

 

[jon11]

Samples look very "digital", like NR is too high and detail is lost, or JPG compression has ruined the subtle tone? Is that just me?

i agree but it must be the compression.
anyway i suspect the cmos sensor will kill all the magic from the ccd sensor has i was used with the 645d. is sony is cmos, we will have a kind of image with great dr shadow recovery, but less capability of managing highlight especially specular. i have not seen raw samples from phase or gassy but i suspect the sony sensor will produce similar images of sony ff or apsc with just more resolution.

 

[Kolor-Pikker]

Samples look very "digital", like NR is too high and detail is lost, or JPG compression has ruined the subtle tone? Is that just me?

I sure do hope no one's forgotten the A7r launch, when all everyone did was complain about the soft, digital-looking sample images coming from beta hardware?
The truth will come when ordinary people start getting their hands on retail units.

 

[torger]

The first sample pictures always suck, regardless of camera. Canon and Nikon are the true experts of dissappointing samples at product launch, but other manufacturers are not far behind

 

[D&A]

This is why I am cautiously optimistic about the CMOS based 645Z vs the current CCD 645D. I recall the excitement I had when the Leica M240 was annoyed with its plethora of features and new higher ISO performing CMOS sensor. Unfortunately I thought like some others some aspects of image quality were lost when compared to the previous CCD based M9. Of course trade offs when all things are considered when certain cameras are upgraded from CCD to CMOS (in my opinion and from comparative observations made).

Dave (D&A)

 

[D&A]

Dave,
Maybe next year I will come out to DC for cherry blossom festival and shoot the 645Z and do a side by side comparison with the 645D.
Apparently this was a good year for the cherry's of course the year I go with you sucks... Figures not your fault though

Question, have you seen the new prices on B&H for the re released FA lenses? Wow !! Not cheap. It will be interesting to see of Ricoh has re formulated any of the FA glass. Probably not....

Steven,

I was just down at the Tidel Basin the other day to view the trees and unlike last year when we went (which was a rare bust in terms of blooming), this year was good, but still a bit subpar. I was thinking of you and hoping we'd be able to get together some year and meet again to go down. So hopefully next year is the year we're armed with the 645D and/or 645G.

As for B&H prices on lenses, I haven't looked at them yet, simply the prices Ricoh posted for the FA lenses they will offer. Most from what I recall are approx 20-25% higher than their last selling price when imported into the US...but there are exceptions of course. I don't expect any changes to the optical formula or coatings but maybe a bit better attention to final adjustment of the lens for adjustment and accurate focusing on the 645 D &G.
Just doing this would go a long way to improving their performance on these digital bodies even with their current design.

Dave (D&A)

 

[Chris Giles]

The first sample pictures always suck, regardless of camera. Canon and Nikon are the true experts of dissappointing samples at product launch, but other manufacturers are not far behind

Ohhh yeah, so true.

 

[Ben Rubinstein]

Even when the new DF body comes out, anyone want to lay money against the body (only) being extremely close in price to the 645Z as a total package? Oh and considerably lesser speced.

I think the 'well X camera didn't kill P1' argument as rather disingenuous. All of those cameras took what would have been MF market share reducing said market until the point where there were only two big players. Yes they're making good money now from rich amatuers and asians buying the CEO's signature in gold at ridiculous prices but it's still a fraction of what it could have been had they not had their market share ripped by so many milestone DSLR's over the years. They always had the megapixel and sensor size argument to use in comparison to DSLR's to justify the huge prices but now that's gone too. I'd predict that Hasselblad will be practically dead a year from now. P1 will survive as long as there are still people willing to pay that much more for a tiny bit extra. Certainly very few pro's will any more as Sony joins to shrink an already tiny market. Business is business.

Pentax have got to get moving on lenses though. That and tethering.

 

[vchiline]

Well, the sensor is pretty much the same as the Phase One or Hassi, so the JPG compression, lens quality are the culprits I would imagine? I did a product launch demo with Phase One of their IQ250 back and I was quite blown away (I currently have the IQ160). We did some tests at 3200, 6400… and it knocked my socks off in the detail retention.

If Pentax has a camera that is anywhere near that level of capability, it's honestly, a bargain. I wish my 645DF body was much more capable, though in all honesty, as a luxury/jewelry product photographer, it does a great job in the studio.

As a second camera to replace my 5D Mark III, why not I am thinking, it's at a VERY interesting price/performance standpoint. Time will tell what the lenses can resolve, how tethering will work, how reliable it will actually be… etc.

Regarding tethering a friend of mine asked RICOH about it and they will be releasing a new software "Image Transmitter 2" which will allow it. It will be around $200. Also, they will have a WIFI option (with the Pentax Flu SD card, built in wifi) to send low-JPG versions to your computer/ipad, etc.

Times are changing….

Vadim
__________________
Luxury Product Photography and Video
www.epicmind.com

 

[Guy Mancuso]

My Sony A7r without a dedicated tethering program actually does a decent job of it running a hot folder in C1. My bet this Pentax would run in a hot folder setup in LR pretty well. We know C1 won't support this Pentax so you need to look elsewhere and as mentioned Ricoh does have a software package to do tethering which until we see it running we can assume it might be pretty good at it. Here is what I like so far is they are recognizing things they need in advance of release like this software for instance. Now service and support I agree is something that just can come from left field and needs to be addressed properly. Bottom line this has a place in the market and if they come out with the goodies than I truly believe those sick and tired of waiting to jump up into a MF system and not getting anything coming from there existing camps ala Nikon/Canon than this thing is a huge positive for those buyers. Obviously it is a wait and see project but thats okay. Days are passing when some are not releasing anything anyway.

 

[dougpeterson]

Well, the sensor is pretty much the same as the Phase One or Hassi, so the JPG compression, lens quality are the culprits I would imagine? I did a product launch demo with Phase One of their IQ250 back and I was quite blown away (I currently have the IQ160). We did some tests at 3200, 6400… and it knocked my socks off in the detail retention.

Additional variables beyond lens quality:
- dark frame technology
- raw processing

Both are very important especially at the fringes (especially high ISO or especially long exposures). The guys who developed the IQ250 hardware are down the hall from, work with, drink with, and otherwise tightly coordinate with the guys making the software. The software guys at C1 also have a very strong incentive to spend lots of extra time tweaking C1's processing of IQ250 files to get the very most out of the files, and they had access to prototype samples for months before the launch (see the Phase One IQ250 story I wrote).

For a more valid comparison you'd want to wait until you can run raws through LR to compare. Only time will tell how much time Adobe spends on catering their processing to get the most out of those raw files.

 

[jon11]

Feature 5?645Z | RICOH IMAGING

here the features. tethering with the software and usb 3-0 will be a breeze.

 

[jon11]

in italy fowl the pentax dealers assist you if a pro the same way as phase one...giving you leased camera if the repair takes long time.

 

[jon11]

the best of pentax 645d i use is a camera that can be used in normal environment like a normal dlsr.
i used it in kiev revolution for example with -25 degree in december

JBPhotography by jonatha Borzicchi Home » JBPhotography by jonatha Borzicchi there are some samples of it.

in my opinion pentax can with just three leaf lenses and producing a back sold as is for other camera mount.

 

[jon11]

Additional variables beyond lens quality:
- dark frame technology
- raw processing

Both are very important especially at the fringes (especially high ISO or especially long exposures). The guys who developed the IQ250 hardware are down the hall from, work with, drink with, and otherwise tightly coordinate with the guys making the software. The software guys at C1 also have a very strong incentive to spend lots of extra time tweaking C1's processing of IQ250 files to get the very most out of the files, and they had access to prototype samples for months before the launch (see the Phase One IQ250 story I wrote).

For a more valid comparison you'd want to wait until you can run raws through LR to compare. Only time will tell how much time Adobe spends on catering their processing to get the most out of those raw files.

personally i have used capture one with dslr and never liked him, i use lightroom for my 645d and the conversion is brilliant, i profile the camera every time with color checker and ithe results are brilliant. capture one can be more easy for phase one owner i imagine, but it seems to me that you think not having capture one is the end of the world. i have used other raw developer and i don't see the need to have capture one as a raw editor. or at least the differences are minimal
in my opinion the openly point at the moment are leaf shutter lenses and view camera. the rest is not worth 4 time the price. you can try to convince us as much as you want but reality is that the pentax is the best offer for many photo needs, and cost 4 times less.
anyway the world is full of rich people who like to spend their money. so p1 still will have market.

 

[vchiline]

For my workflow being doing lots of product shots of macro subjects (jewelry), I need to do lots of stack focusing. Capture One allows me quick batch exporting on the fly with the product's SKU number alongside the incrementing number. LR or anything else isn't a breeze with this regard.

We use C1 with our IQ160 and 5D Mark III stations - it works great, rarely has a bug and is a workhorse churning out great images.

I would assume C1 wouldn't work with the files from a Pentax 645Z, though the native file type is DNG… but they might filter out this camera as to reduce competition… hence just handicapping? That's one way to perhaps stop a possible "bleeding" should there be one caused by this.

I have no regrets with the investment with the Phase One system in hindsight. Although, seeing a competitor on the horizon with not just a slightly better price, but an AMAZINGLY better price and a very similar if not the same sensor, plus a much more performant body…. makes me think twice about WHICH system to invest in should I replace my Canon one.

Time will tell.

Vadim
__________________
Luxury Product Photography and Video
www.epicmind.com

 

[gerald.d]

Additional variables beyond lens quality:
- dark frame technology
- raw processing

Both are very important especially at the fringes (especially high ISO or especially long exposures). The guys who developed the IQ250 hardware are down the hall from, work with, drink with, and otherwise tightly coordinate with the guys making the software. The software guys at C1 also have a very strong incentive to spend lots of extra time tweaking C1's processing of IQ250 files to get the very most out of the files, and they had access to prototype samples for months before the launch (see the Phase One IQ250 story I wrote).

For a more valid comparison you'd want to wait until you can run raws through LR to compare. Only time will tell how much time Adobe spends on catering their processing to get the most out of those raw files.

FUD. Pure and simple. With no evidence whatsoever you are trying to build a case for "Team Phase One" over "Team Ricoh" based on where you perceive the water coolers to be installed and who drinks from them.

The IQ250 has its place. I have no concerns whatsoever about my rationale for convincing the guys who sign the cheques to buy one, because for my purposes, the Pentax can't deliver what I'm looking for. I shot 15,000 images with the IQ250 in just 36 hours this last week, and the Pentax couldn't have delivered one of them.

The IQ250 doesn't need this FUD. Since launch, it has (at retail list prices) delivered 8 figure US$ revenue to the channel.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I don't view the 250 as solving MF problems. It makes possible new MF opportunities. The same applies to the Z.

How about we all stop being negative in an attempt to protect our vested interest, and instead recognise and appreciate this camera for the game-changer that it is?