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Changing Medium Format

gmfotografie

Well-known member
hi guys,

i´m actually photographing on a canon system portraits, landscape and stills. i like to move more into the genre architecture photography in connection with nature.

i also use an analoge large format system for some landscape pictures; still know the movements :) (i use 300mm nikkor, 150mm schneider).

buying tilt/shift for my canon system (24mm and 45mm) will be okay. on the other side i still think about the option buying a digital mediumformat system. i can use it for my studio work and also for my landscape and minimalistic architecture work.

but my budget is about 8000.-€
canon tse will cost me about 3500 € ....and then ? (knowing that i will buy a mediumformat system in one or two years :) )

but for 8000 i cannot buy a rm3di or a techno with one or two lenses...and a digital pack oO

how would you solve this situation? have you any suggestions :)

maybe a stupid question but i actually an important for me :)

best michael
 

weinlamm

Member
Hi Michel,

your first step should be to decide you for a system:

a) Tech.Cam

Cambo, Arca or Alpa

Each is good but a little bit different (you should find some threads here). Lenses are avaible the same for all systems.

b) Your MF system

I think there are two main-systems: Phase One and Hasselblad. Or you take a Pentax, which is growing (but with this you don't have the option for a Tech.Cam because you don't have a digital back; Pentax is a camera system).

Here are some differences, too.

And for your 8.000 Euro, I think, it must be an older system. Perhaps something with 22/30 MP? Phase P25/P30, Leaf Aptus II-5,6,7 or H3D-31. Something in this kind...
+ additional lenses you need.

And if you add up all this I think there's not much money left for your Tech.Cam-System.

So think carefully about all and don't take the first-best offer.

But I think even with a 22 or 30 MP MF-system and especially in architecture you will get better pictures than with your Canon system.
I had thought longer for upgrade my older Nikon D700 for a D800e - but I had a Mamiya DM22 (same as Leaf Aptus II-5) and got better pictures with this system than with the D800e I borrowed from a friend. ;)
 

jerome_m

Member
I don't think that a tilt/shift system is a real requirement in architecture today, since one cna correct the perspective in post.

But if you are considering MF and need tilt/shift, you should know about the Hasselblad HTS system. Basically, it allows tilt/shift on Hasselblad H lenses. Two drawbacks: it includes a 1.5x converter, so your wide-angles are less wide and it disables autofocus.

Your budget is a bit low for a medium format system with tilt/shift.
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Your budget isn't enough for what you're looking for.

But if you could put 8k down and start a lease for an additional 5-10k for instance then you'd have enough to look at a few good options from various vendors. In the US getting such a lease wouldn't be very hard and at the end of the lease you down everything outright.
 

gebseng

Member
How about a Cambo Wide RS or Wide DS with a SK Digitar 5.6/35mm and a Leaf Aptus 75S? You could find a lot of that stuff used. IMO the "only" downside of the Aptus 75S is the lack of live view.

best,

geb
 

goesbang

Member
Given what you can do with a Canon 17TS these days, I tend to agree with Doug. As a pro archi shooter myself, I think if you are going to jump into MF, you would need to be leveraging the advantages of the higher end backs and primo lenses like the HR Digarons. If your budget does not allow this, then buying a significantly older back and compromising your lens choice defeats the purpose of gaining the significant advantages that MF still offers architectural shooters. It doesn't make good business sense. Leasing was how I equipped my business for the first 20 years. However, in making a decision to take on a lease, keep in mind that architectural photography is a market segment that is being squeezed by reduced barriers to entry as well as increased use of CGI. The big $20-40k shoots are still there, but all the bread and butter stuff that used to yield half and full-day shoots are quickly disappearing, either to CGI, or to some Guy-with-camera. Making a leasing decision banking on future earnings is a big call. My current strategy is based on a "if I can't pay cash, I can't afford it yet" philosophy. Build your client base and revenue first, then stock your kit bag.
 

gmfotografie

Well-known member
so, time has come.... what do you think about a solution with the new hasselblad back which fits originally on the v system. price for about 11k seams very attractive.

with this back im able to use my good old 501cm and i can extend it later with a arca rm3di.
 

Shashin

Well-known member
The rumor about a 50MP Canon has been around for years. And just like the D800 was no substitute for MFD, I don't think this will be either--if it is actually more than a rumor...
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
Canon is due for sure, and the timing fits, the Photoexpo shot in NY is where all the past big MP 35mm were announced.

I don't put it past them. The rumored Price point is possibly more than the 645z, which has proven itself to be a very good camera. If I was at that cross road, I think the Pentax would work better for me.

Paul
 

torger

Active member
€8000 is a bit too small a budget. You can get a second hand system, but it would need to be say a Silvestri with a 22 megapixel back, or a 4x5" geared Sinar. With the 22 megapixel sensors many analog large format lenses will be okay. If you enjoy MF gear it can be fun, but not really a good solution for pro photography.

In the last couple of years there's been an increased pressure from 135 through their high MP and high DR sensors. A 22 megapixel Hasselblad CF22 might not feel that sexy when compared to a 36 megapixel Nikon D810. State of the art MFD tech cam gear is extremely expensive, and some feel that they need to go there to "keep the distance" from the lower cost systems.

I think the current best price/performance for tech photography is a Sony A7r with adapters and Canon and Contax tilt-shift lenses. There's been some quality issues with the metabones adapters though, I don't know what the current status is.

If you double your budget and can accept the risk and work involved in buying second hand you can get a capable MF tech system. I prefer those for technical photography, feels less "messy" to work with than the tilt-shift lenses. Having movements in the body so you get flexible and precise tilt-shift for all focal lengths is just so much more elegant than those bulky and sometime hard-to-find tilt-shift lenses for the 135 systems.

Key is to be satisfied with a legacy digital back, the modern ones break budgets. I'd suggest a 33 or 39 megapixel back. In absolute resolution you can make quite large prints and you have less aliasing issues than with the 22 megapixel backs. €3500 - €4500 for the back, then get one of those view cameras for landscape and architecture, Linhof Techno, Arca-Swiss MF-two. Even if body is expensive lens boards instead of helicals will make the system cheaper in time. I have the Techno myself and like it for it's compactness, but the MF-two is a bit more economical and more flexible. Arca-Swiss just released the Universalis which seems to be some sort of follow-up on the MF-two, but if on the second hand market it's the MF-two you should look for. Unfortunately both Linhof Techno and Arca-Swiss MF-two appear only rarely second hand. Cambo, Alpa and Rm3Di cameras are easier to get second hand, but will generally be more expensive systems due to costly lens mounts.

Buying second hand is a risk though, I needed to repair my digital back which was a costly messy story. Such things can happen. In terms of cost even if things go bad you generally end up spending less money than going through a typical "pre-owned" deal, at least if turning to an European dealer, but sending a digital back back-and-forth for repair is not fun.

If you need low risk and low budget, go 135 for sure and adapt to its limitations. The typical problem is the lack of high quality tilt-shift lenses. The Canon TS-E 24II and TS-E 17 are good and have flexible movements, the 90mm too (less flexible movements though), but not the 45. For 35mm a Contax shift lens is good (no tilt on that though). If you can't get the Contax or need tilt, the TS-E 24II + extender 1.4 III gives a decent 35mm, a bit soft but stable corner to corner.
 
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gmfotografie

Well-known member
if i can have the cfv-50c for 11000€ and put it on my 501 with my planar cfi planar lenses it will be okay.
extending with a rm3di for tilt shift later.

but first i have to test it on my system personally if the good old lenses have enough for such a digipack.

best michael
 

torger

Active member
I guess you are aware that you will have limited wide angle options with the CFV-50c, due to that the Sony sensor is not so good with technical wide angle designs? If not, do study the subject in advance, otherwise you may end up disappointed when you're later on getting that RM3Di system.

That said the CFV-50c has unbeatable value among the detachable back options, $20k cheaper than the $35k IQ250. You can get the same sensor at an even lower cost in the Pentax 645z, but that's not a system for technical photography.
 

Bryan Stephens

Workshop Member
If the rumor is indeed true, it will be interesting to see the IQ of a 46MP 35mm full frame compared to the Pentax 645Z which is at the same price point, and 50MP in a full frame MF sensor.
 

torger

Active member
I don't think the flexbody or arcbody is a very good alternative for wide angle photography with a sensor as small as 44x33mm. Being analog designs for 56x56mm film they don't have the rigidity and parallelism as we come to expect in digital. The arcbody wide angle, Rodenstock apo-grandagon 35mm, will probably not work too well with the CFV-50c due to crosstalk.
 

alajuela

Active member
Linhof Techno, Arca-Swiss MF-two. Even if body is expensive lens boards instead of helicals will make the system cheaper in time. I have the Techno myself and like it for it's compactness, but the MF-two is a bit more economical and more flexible. Arca-Swiss just released the Universalis which seems to be some sort of follow-up on the MF-two, but if on the second hand market it's the MF-two you should look for. Unfortunately both Linhof Techno and Arca-Swiss MF-two appear only rarely second hand. Cambo, Alpa and Rm3Di cameras are easier to get second hand, but will generally be more expensive systems due to costly lens mounts.
HI

You should not overlook the Arca M series, I got a great deal on mine, and also look at the Arca F line Metric.

The M is a little heavier - more of a studio camera, - not so easy to put in a back pack, BUT the F line Metric is lighter and does an excellence job with digital

Both of these cameras, give you complete 100% movements on both the front and back standard, and both are precise.

Not as compact as a Tech (nor as light), but also no special mountings required.

You can also get mounting plates for the rear standard for Sony, Canon, Nikon, bodies, along with digital backs, and film is still a viable option if you so chose.

Thanks

Phil
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
HI

You should not overlook the Arca M series, I got a great deal on mine, and also look at the Arca F line Metric.

The M is a little heavier - more of a studio camera, - not so easy to put in a back pack, BUT the F line Metric is lighter and does an excellence job with digital

Both of these cameras, give you complete 100% movements on both the front and back standard, and both are precise.

Not as compact as a Tech (nor as light), but also no special mountings required.

You can also get mounting plates for the rear standard for Sony, Canon, Nikon, bodies, along with digital backs, and film is still a viable option if you so chose.

Thanks

Phil
Have you seen the new Universalis? It's like an M line but lighter and smaller:
Arca Swiss dEx, FP, CS, DM, Universalis - DT Blog
 
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