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H4D-60, The Future of Hasselblad, and Always Waiting For the Next Big Thing

Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
Hey Steve. Take it from me. There is definitely a Phase bias on this forum. But that is OK with me. Most of us understand this and accept it for what it is. In life we see bias in most areas, and it is our duty to try and sort it out and separate it from the facts.

Greg
I'm not debating the bias, but you make it sound like an agenda, and my question is the bias is from whom? The people that use the products. How can it be an agenda if they are simply positive about the product they use (and maybe not positive about a competitive product they don't use)? From that standpoint, it is an equal opportunity forum.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
 

alajuela

Active member
No they did not.
Please see below - There is a relationship. - I do think Fuji is competent and there is no dispute that Fuji has MF experience.

In 1998, Hasselblad began selling the XPan, a camera designed and made in Japan by Fujifilm.

In 2002, they introduced the H-System, retroactively renaming their original camera line the V-System. The H-System marked an essential transition for the company. It dropped the traditional Hasselblad square negative format, instead using 6×4.5 cm film and a new series of lenses. The then owners had no confidence in Hasselblad's already advanced digital project returning a profit, and, seeing the relative success in the market of the modern (i.e. fully automated) 645 cameras made by manufacturers like Pentax and Mamiya, closed down Hasselblad's digital department and directed all effort towards making this 645 film camera. The H-System is largely designed and manufactured by Hasselblad, with Fuji's involvement being limited to finalizing Hasselblad's lens designs and producing the glass for the lenses and viewfinders. Fuji was allowed under the agreement to sell the H1 under their name in Japan only.

XPan (1998–2006) (designed and manufactured by Fujifilm)

H-System
The camera used Fujinon manufactured lenses and prisms, thus departing from Hasselblad's long association with Carl Zeiss when it comes to lens manufacturing. Shutter in the lenses was still manufactured by Hasselblad and so is the body. Hasselblad initially invited both PhaseOne and Kodak to develop digital backs for the H-System.

In 2002 Hasselblad introduced the H series of cameras. These were purportedly designed in large measure by Hasselblad's engineers, but are built in Japan by Fuji. The lenses for the H series are all designed and made by Fuji, but specified by Hasselblad. It's interesting to note as well that in Japan the H series cameras are sold as Fuji brand cameras, with no mention whatsoever of the name Hasselblad. (This applied as well to the excellent Hasselblad X-Pan, which was simply a rebranded Fuji product)

When the H1 was first introduced that was much wailing and gnashing of teeth among the Hasselblad faithful. The move from Zeiss to Fuji lenses was the source of concern. The past few years has shown this not to have been an issue. Fuji makes some of the finest large format and scientific application lenses in the world, and Hasselblad claims to have specified the lenses for the H series cameras

GX645AF: the AF Medium Format SLR Camera
The GX645AF was developed in collaboration with the world-renowned Hasselblad camera manufacturer. It is the medium format auto focus SLR camera in the world.

Thanks

Phil
 

Nick-T

New member
Please see below - There is a relationship. - I do think Fuji is competent and there is no dispute that Fuji has MF experience.
No one is suggesting otherwise.
You initially posted that Fuji designed the H System bodies.
They absolutely did not.

In 1998, Hasselblad began selling the XPan, a camera designed and made in Japan by Fujifilm.

In 2002, they introduced the H-System, retroactively renaming their original camera line the V-System. The H-System marked an essential transition for the company. It dropped the traditional Hasselblad square negative format, instead using 6×4.5 cm film and a new series of lenses. The then owners had no confidence in Hasselblad's already advanced digital project returning a profit, and, seeing the relative success in the market of the modern (i.e. fully automated) 645 cameras made by manufacturers like Pentax and Mamiya, closed down Hasselblad's digital department and directed all effort towards making this 645 film camera.
I was not aware that Hasselblad had a digital project when the H camera was conceived. It is correct to say that the camera was initially conceived as a film camera, but Hasselblad soon realised they needed digital and acquired Imacon for their digital knowledge.
The H-System is largely designed and manufactured by Hasselblad, with Fuji's involvement being limited to finalizing Hasselblad's lens designs and producing the glass for the lenses and viewfinders. Fuji was allowed under the agreement to sell the H1 under their name in Japan only.

XPan (1998–2006) (designed and manufactured by Fujifilm)

H-System
The camera used Fujinon manufactured lenses and prisms, thus departing from Hasselblad's long association with Carl Zeiss when it comes to lens manufacturing. Shutter in the lenses was still manufactured by Hasselblad and so is the body. Hasselblad initially invited both PhaseOne and Kodak to develop digital backs for the H-System.
The above is largely correct but then your paste goes on to contradict itself:

In 2002 Hasselblad introduced the H series of cameras. These were purportedly designed in large measure by Hasselblad's engineers, but are built in Japan by Fuji. The lenses for the H series are all designed and made by Fuji, but specified by Hasselblad.
This is NOT accurate.
The H system Cameras are built in Gothenburg Sweden. The backs were until recently made in Denmark (Now Sweden). The lenses are designed by a Swede not by Fuji. The optics ARE made in Japan to Swedish designs. The shutters are designed and made in Sweden.
It's interesting to note as well that in Japan the H series cameras are sold as Fuji brand cameras, with no mention whatsoever of the name Hasselblad. (This applied as well to the excellent Hasselblad X-Pan, which was simply a rebranded Fuji product)
That's because the co-operation agreement specified exactly that. There is nothing unusual or even especially interesting in the arrangement.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Balance my friend!

I have spent a lot with P1 over the years and do not regret any of it or have an axe to grind.

A forum that has no official Hasselblad representation but is very Phase centric which is possibly partly due to its dominated by a Phase One dealer presence needs some impartiality which I offered. I don't sell digital backs but enjoy using them so have no horse in the race.

That's all. That's ok, right? For me to suggest people try rather than accept half truths and rumour?
Lets be clear here . This is a publc forum and on more than one occasion i have asked Hassy to participate with there dealers the management and anyone that cares to jump in. Nothing and i have also asked several times to do reviews on Hassy and zip, nada, nothing. Please you have any connections with Hassy tell them to get there butts in here and jump in. There more than welcome just like any other OEM or dealer. I dont see canon or Nikon reps here either so please lets not crucify the ones that do participate even if it is bias to some degree. We are all adults here and smart enough to separate the facts from the chaff.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
No one is suggesting otherwise.
You initially posted that Fuji designed the H System bodies.
They absolutely did not.



I was not aware that Hasselblad had a digital project when the H camera was conceived. It is correct to say that the camera was initially conceived as a film camera, but Hasselblad soon realised they needed digital and acquired Imacon for their digital knowledge.


The above is largely correct but then your paste goes on to contradict itself:



This is NOT accurate.
The H system Cameras are built in Gothenburg Sweden. The backs were until recently made in Denmark (Now Sweden). The lenses are designed by a Swede not by Fuji. The optics ARE made in Japan to Swedish designs. The shutters are designed and made in Sweden.


That's because the co-operation agreement specified exactly that. There is nothing unusual or even especially interesting in the arrangement.
Thanks Nick the way i understand it is you have it correctly. In all honesty it means nothing anyway where things are built. Everything is down to computer design and a exact process is in place. Heck this stuff with the proper gear could be built in my garage. The bottom line does it perform to spec is all that matters.
 

alajuela

Active member
Amazing - The post starts off on the "The Future of Hasselblad, and Always Waiting For the Next Big Thing"

The post I made - which has been made of various posts on this forum - is what is the future of Hasselblad as a company. There has been speculation that Sony should buy Hasselblad since they are using a Sony sensor now - that's a different discussion.

My point was and is should Hasselblad be sold - as there is a speculation, Fuji has collaborated with Hasselblad and Fuji is certainly qualified - Your notion that Fuji blindly made some Hasselblad lenses to Hasselblad specs as an afterthought, is ignoring the point. Hasselblad did not buy cable releases from Fuji.

The post does not contradict itself, it states the facts of the relationship and in no way demeans Hasselblad, but quite the contrary, shows there is more that a passing business relationship. So opinionating on these issues is not doing the subject justice.

While I agree it does not matter where things are built, Guy's garage not withstanding, it does matter who built them, At no time have I heard Hasselblad (or Hasselblad users) expressing dissatisfaction, with the products that Fuji built. To speculate - coming from manufacturing - it would naive to think that Fuji was just an OEM with no collaboration from both sides.

Personally I hope that Hasselblad is around for the next 100 years, I am old fashioned in my point of view, products have to be made and not just marketed. But also realistic to know that Companies have to be profitable, I do expect to see some consolidation in the Still Camera field.

In the meantime, as Photography has shown us through out its history, change is the only constant.

So I repeat my post - to agree and diminish this collaboration , would just be wrong.

Thanks

Phil
 

alajuela

Active member
No one is suggesting otherwise.
You initially posted that Fuji designed the H System bodies.
They absolutely did not.

I suggest you read it again - My initial post does not mention the H system



I was not aware that Hasselblad had a digital project when the H camera was conceived. It is correct to say that the camera was initially conceived as a film camera, but Hasselblad soon realised they needed digital and acquired Imacon for their digital knowledge.


The above is largely correct but then your paste goes on to contradict itself:

????????????


This is NOT accurate.
The H system Cameras are built in Gothenburg Sweden. The backs were until recently made in Denmark (Now Sweden). The lenses are designed by a Swede not by Fuji. The optics ARE made in Japan to Swedish designs. The shutters are designed and made in Sweden.

At no time were backs ever mentioned.


That's because the co-operation agreement specified exactly that. There is nothing unusual or even especially interesting in the arrangement.
Interesting is in the eye of the beholder.
 

gazwas

Active member
Lets be clear here . This is a publc forum and on more than one occasion i have asked Hassy to participate with there dealers the management and anyone that cares to jump in. Nothing and i have also asked several times to do reviews on Hassy and zip, nada, nothing. Please you have any connections with Hassy tell them to get there butts in here and jump in. There more than welcome just like any other OEM or dealer. I dont see canon or Nikon reps here either so please lets not crucify the ones that do participate even if it is bias to some degree. We are all adults here and smart enough to separate the facts from the chaff.
I have no connection with any camera dealer. I pointed out an inaccuracy that P1 produce better files than HB cameras amongst other comments. I then in the interests of balance, highlighted some truths that could be of concern to someone purchasing a P1 system - a system I have 14 years experience using. That touched a nerve with a P1 dealer who participated in this thread and I become the bad guy?

Camera manufacturers reluctance to participate is understandable as being the voice of one of these is then reacted to in the manner of my 'trying to be helpful' post.
 

tjv

Active member
Is Steve H. no longer a Hasselblad dealer? His signature says he is, or am I reading it wrong?
 

cerett

Member
Is Steve H. no longer a Hasselblad dealer? His signature says he is, or am I reading it wrong?
I wondered the same thing myself. It looks like CI sells used H stuff, probably taken in on trade. However, Steve H can speak for himself.
 

andrew wuttke

New member
I am always amazed at the amount you guys know about the various companies which make the cameras

and am equally amazed when people post comments based not necessarily on using the cameras but opinions based on tech stuff

lets face it Phase make a great camera which could be better Hasselblad make a great camera that could be better

but the files they both produce are as good as you could want big sharp accurate colour

most of the working guys out there have used most of the brands at one point or another and are now shooting with a system that works for them at the moment

next year, 5 years down the track we will be using the gear that gets the results

so my advice like some of the previous comments is "if you like Hasselblad go buy one... if you are worried about maybe the company going under don't buy one ....... and maybe sell your car too cause the manufacturer may also fold" :)
 

Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
I have no connection with any camera dealer. I pointed out an inaccuracy that P1 produce better files than HB cameras amongst other comments. I then in the interests of balance, highlighted some truths that could be of concern to someone purchasing a P1 system - a system I have 14 years experience using. That touched a nerve with a P1 dealer who participated in this thread and I become the bad guy?

Camera manufacturers reluctance to participate is understandable as being the voice of one of these is then reacted to in the manner of my 'trying to be helpful' post.

Wait a minute G - who ever said you were the bad guy? Who says you touched a nerve with me? You stated what you felt were "truths" and I called you out on it. If you want to say that is touching a nerve, then you would be way off. For the record, I prefer facts, not "truths".

Regardless of any perceived 'bias", anyone who posts information on this forum should be prepared to back up that information. That goes for Hasselblad users, Phase One users, and that goes for you too, Mr G.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
 
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Ken_R

New member
Hi, if you want more discussions about Hasselblad Digital gear THIS is the place to go. GetDpi is more diverse and some topics can be a bit "biased" depending on what the people commenting actually own/use and prefer. Yes a lot of folks that post here own Hasselblad H cameras and backs but a lot also own Phase / Leaf backs and a variety of camera platforms (SLR and tech cameras). That is cool since you can get info on a wide range of gear but also can be overwhelming at times.
 

BANKER1

Member
NickT should write a synopsis of the history of Hasselblad starting with the introduction of the H line of cameras. Then when he sees inaccurate information he could copy and paste it for this and others forums he follows. Heck, I have been using Hasselblad equipment since the late seventies, and he had to straighten me out here a few months ago.

This is a friendly forum, so if we get our feelings hurt, can't we just suck it up and keep it as gentile as possible. The tit for tat gets tiresome. And, we can present facts without making it personal.

Greg
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Totally agree. Folks it is so simple the concept everyone is sitting at a round table in front of you. Act accordingly

I can't tell you how many times I have NOT posted a response to something. You would actually be amazed. Lol
 

alajuela

Active member
NickT should write a synopsis of the history of Hasselblad starting with the introduction of the H line of cameras. Then when he sees inaccurate information he could copy and paste it for this and others forums he follows. Heck, I have been using Hasselblad equipment since the late seventies, and he had to straighten me out here a few months ago.

This is a friendly forum, so if we get our feelings hurt, can't we just suck it up and keep it as gentile as possible. The tit for tat gets tiresome. And, we can present facts without making it personal.

Greg
I am all for that.

It become tiresome when someone come in out of left field with an agenda

That would be a good idea, perhaps he can start with an edit on Hasselblad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

He has a head start since the second post which he had issues which is a cut and paste, as I wanted to only "facts" as I have no dog in this fight. Only to maintain the integrity of what I said.

Thanks

Phil
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Hi, if you want more discussions about Hasselblad Digital gear THIS is the place to go. GetDpi is more diverse and some topics can be a bit "biased" depending on what the people commenting actually own/use and prefer. Yes a lot of folks that post here own Hasselblad H cameras and backs but a lot also own Phase / Leaf backs and a variety of camera platforms (SLR and tech cameras). That is cool since you can get info on a wide range of gear but also can be overwhelming at times.
I agree some maybe biased but I like to think more than not it is more about preferences in what systems you like. I know for me its a preference thing. I like Phase backs but I also like Hassy bodies and lenses too. I honestly have no real dog in this but I do have preferences. But i will say this on a personal level not management level. I think Hassy just gets too beat up sometimes and I don't think they deserve it. To me they are a part of my blood and anyone shooting for many years most likely had a Hassy at one time in there hands to work with. They have a long history in this industry and deserve that respect. Times have changed i know as well as anyone and we have all seen the Bronica's and others just disappear off the planet. I don't care what you shoot but we don't need Hassy doing that either. Thats all I got to say. But we are adults here and we can separate things pretty clearly and more important most people on the MF forums have been around a bit. Now sales folks sure some are bias and some even admit it and some are pretty neutral. Thats something on a open forum we just need to expect. You are the judge if you want to do business with them. They depend on your money to eat, so you have that same preference to deal with them or not.
 

gerald.d

Well-known member
:worthless: AND VIDEO?

The day I would have to shoot video in order to pull a still :eek: , well, I just don't see myself doing that.
But then, I am a real dino as I don't own a cam that can shoot video.
Still very happy with an H3DII 39, despite the apparent :toocool: inferior image quality compared to the somewhat pricy Phase backs. I even bought a secondhand H1 to shoot B&W film again.
The occasional portrait is quite doable, despite the absence of true focus.
Owning a camera is better than waiting for the next best thing, I would say.
Frankly, I think the idea of shooting video to pull a still, rather than shooting stills with MF, is - in almost all circumstances - absolutely laughable. That someone would actually recommend a video camera over a stills camera for stills work is utterly bizarre, and you have to question what on earth their agenda was to suggest such a thing.

I've been shooting some 8K timelapses with the IQ250 lately, and the guys in the office who shoot on Dragons (with pretty much the best cinema glass money can buy) couldn't believe their eyes when they saw a 4K render of one of my timelapses running on a 4K TV, calling it by far the most impressive 4K footage (quality wise) they had ever seen, from any source.

Kind regards,

Gerald.
 

Stefan Steib

Active member
I've been shooting some 8K timelapses with the IQ250 lately, and the guys in the office who shoot on Dragons (with pretty much the best cinema glass money can buy) couldn't believe their eyes when they saw a 4K render of one of my timelapses running on a 4K TV, calling it by far the most impressive 4K footage (quality wise) they had ever seen, from any source.

Kind regards,

Gerald.
This is why I am extremely curious about the video stuff from the Pentax 645Z. And I would also be astonished if Phase wouldn´t at least do a video head version of the chip with according signal output, maybe for industrial stuff in their industrial bodies ? They´d be stupid if they´d miss that opportunity !

Greetings from Germany
Stefan
 
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