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ALPA Rumors 2014

f8orbust

Active member
Not sure how this thread drifted from 'Alpa Photokina rumours 2014' to 'FPS shutter shake' - hopefully we can get it back on track now that Photokina is so close. Personally, I'm intrigued as to whether or not there really is a new version of the S/K 100mm in the offing?

Jim
 

f8orbust

Active member
Not a rumor, but a wish: I'd kinda like a version of the Max that could go to something like +/- 35mm on the 'rear' in order to leverage the large image circles of lenses like the S/K 43, 60 and 120. I know there's the XY (that can go +/-25mm on the 'rear' and 45/25 on the 'front'), but it's kinda bulky and heavy, and I never really liked the shock absorber (now, a shock absorber for my wallet would be really good where all things Alpa are concerned).

Jim
 

greygrad

Member
Remember that with longer lenses like the latest 120, mechanical vignetting is going to rob you of the outer limits of the image circle no matter what camera you stick it on (IIRC it's rated at 150mm, but in Alpa mount it's 'restricted' to something like 110mm). Nevertheless, a smaller camera (than the XY) with +/-25mm of shift would be worth a second look - e.g. just make the Max 14mm 'wider' and expand rear shift to +/-25mm or make it 7mm 'taller' and expand front fall to 25mm (front rise is already at 25mm).
 

markymarkrb

New member
I am curious to see if ALPA will introduce an A7R adapter for their 12 series cameras. Does anyone know if this would even work with the flange distance?
 

gerald.d

Well-known member
It should work with SB34 lenses with a spacer.

jim
I think it would also work with SB17's. I remember when the A7 came out I did some measurements - it's only a couple of mm off working as a back on the FPS (unfortunately the handgrip messes things up).

I don't think it would take much to modify the A7 and get it working as a digital back - "just" remove the handgrip and reposition the battery/card slot somewhere else :)

Kind regards,

Gerald.
 
I hope Sony could develop a chip of 645 size with the same technology of IQ250/D800E, and Rodenstock could update their ultra wide angle lenses to be CMOS-friendly.
 

f8orbust

Active member
None of the current crop of WAs from R/S or S/K are great when shifted on the Sony 50MP chip.

Either the design of the chip has to change (unlikely), P1 has to develop a way in software to deal with the issue (unlikely this can solve 100% of the problem) or there has to be a new generation of WA lenses that are even stronger retrofocus by design, so that the lens is further from the sensor and the light towards the edge of the IC is closer to being perpendicular to the plane of the sensor.

Unfortunately these lenses will be 1) bigger, 2) heavier and 3) significantly more expensive. However, I don't think we'll ever see another CCD sensor again, so if CMOS is in your future, and you need a WA ... start saving now.
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
The smaller version of the 50MP Sony Sensor in the A7r, shows the same problem with wides on shifts past about 10mm. Crosstalk creating quite a bit of loss of saturation on greens and blues. Some seems to come back in C1 with the LCC processing.

What you don't see any of is loss of detail. I was shifting the Rod 40mm HR-W to 20mm and it held up very well at F8. Same for the SK60.

The SK35 works but can't get the same amount of shift maxing at about 10mm and 8mm is where the cross talk problems start.

Paul
 

narikin

New member
However, I don't think we'll ever see another CCD sensor again, so if CMOS is in your future, and you need a WA ... start saving now.
So... keep a firm grip on your CCD back?!

If a 100Mp CCD last hurrah arrives from Phase at Photokina, I might bite, but it would have to add some more features beside that to help make the leap. Quite frankly my IQ180 has been such a reliable workhorse, and the enabling of USB3 has been so very useful, it really gave it a new lease of life.

Along with many others I could see no reason to go to IQ2 series once the Surface Pro tethered via USB appeared, and felt new opportunities for accuracy and precision arrived. Would I like a Base ISO of 100, with clean files up to 400iso, - yes I would. But I do make 4-way stitches on my Max, so if CMOS has problems with that, then its kind of useless to me.
 

narikin

New member
Not a rumor, but a wish: I'd kinda like a version of the Max that could go to something like +/- 35mm on the 'rear' in order to leverage the large image circles of lenses like the S/K 43, 60 and 120. I know there's the XY (that can go +/-25mm on the 'rear' and 45/25 on the 'front'), but it's kinda bulky and heavy, and I never really liked the shock absorber (now, a shock absorber for my wallet would be really good where all things Alpa are concerned).

Jim
+1,

Bring out a Max+ with more 'cross' movement on the back: +/- 25mm at least.

The XY is too big, bulky and overweight for what it does. The Max would be even better with some extra movement, and an increase to 25 or 30mm would make a clearer delineation from the STC with the same +/- 18mm as current Max.

If that could be engineered, then the XY could probably be retired as a product.
 

bab

Active member
If those bottle labels were shot with a MS 200 you would really see how blurry they are. To my eye the the side lighting creating the depth in the image is more what I see, rather then sharpness.
My wish for photokina a smaller titanium linhof m679cs, a rodi 180mm macro mounted with a Schneider electronic shutter and some digital back manufacture to add auto focus stacking to their software.

We can dream can't we.
 

f8orbust

Active member
It would be nice to see a Max with an extended range of movements, but I guess there comes a point when it would impact sales of the XY, so maybe they don't want to do it. Alpa have just updated the XY (Mk IV) so it's obviously going nowhere fast.

As an alternative, perhaps extend the shift on the STC to +/-30mm and call it the STC-P (P=Panoramic)? That said, with longer lenses there's mechanical vignetting due to the rather narrow lens mount Alpa uses, so that just leaves WAs - and WA lenses with large ICs tend to be symmetrical designs - which don't work great with the latest CCD/CMOS sensors … so again, Alpa may feel it's not worth the effort.

OT: 100MP CCD? I can't see it (anymore) in a prosumer grade DB. 100MP CMOS? Who knows. Looking at the MF sections on GetDPI and LuLa it's kinda sad that neither is as lively as they were just a couple of years ago, it seems like the whole segment needs invigorating. Turned out the announcement of CMOS just wasn't enough. All the excitement seems to be with compact system cameras, and with a camera like the A7r it's not hard to see why, especially when matched with the killer glass becoming available. The rumor is Canon has a 75MP (3 x 25MP) foveonesque-style sensor out there being tested - the IQ off that thing could even give 80MP bayer array sensors a run for their money.
 

narikin

New member
It would be nice to see a Max with an extended range of movements, but I guess there comes a point when it would impact sales of the XY, so maybe they don't want to do it. Alpa have just updated the XY (Mk IV) so it's obviously going nowhere fast.

As an alternative, perhaps extend the shift on the STC to +/-30mm and call it the STC-P (P=Panoramic)? That said, with longer lenses there's mechanical vignetting due to the rather narrow lens mount Alpa uses, so that just leaves WAs - and WA lenses with large ICs tend to be symmetrical designs - which don't work great with the latest CCD/CMOS sensors … so again, Alpa may feel it's not worth the effort.

OT: 100MP CCD? I can't see it (anymore) in a prosumer grade DB. 100MP CMOS? Who knows. Looking at the MF sections on GetDPI and LuLa it's kinda sad that neither is as lively as they were just a couple of years ago, it seems like the whole segment needs invigorating. Turned out the announcement of CMOS just wasn't enough. All the excitement seems to be with compact system cameras, and with a camera like the A7r it's not hard to see why, especially when matched with the killer glass becoming available. The rumor is Canon has a 75MP (3 x 25MP) foveonesque-style sensor out there being tested - the IQ off that thing could even give 80MP bayer array sensors a run for their money.
I've looked at adding the XY, but as I already own 4 Alpa bodies, I doubt I'll do it, and its such an ungainly mechanism compared to the Max. I'd just as soon look at the Cambo that offers 25mm lateral shift on its Max competitor, and I feel Alpa should address that as it's maybe loosing them sales, when compared on paper.

To me, 100mp is not 'Prosumer' - forgive me if we have different understandings of that term - but it refers, I thought, to the market between Professional and amateur Consumer. 100Mp backs, or for that matter 80mp and 60Mp, are Pro territory, not Prosumer. (though of course some wealthy hobbyists/'Prosumers' do buy).

I have heard rumors of Canon this and Canon that sensors for over 8 years now, so will only believe it when it comes. Do I hope that Phase, or Canon, release a Foveon style back? Yes I do, it would be awesome, and if I'd been in charge of MF back development, I'd have been right onto Sigma 3 years ago to licence that for MF. I know Hassy were very aware of the Foveon advantages when I visited their factory a few years back.

As for mirrorless, yes that is exciting, but its only a small step to MF mirrorless now. We have the camera bodies (Alpa FPS) we have the CMOS MF backs, we simply need Sony to engineer the chip for EVF readout, and presto. Sony $500 EVF on top of an FPS, plugged into Sony MF sensor-ed back, and wa-la: MF mirrorless. Live view focusing and all. Now that would be sooo great!
 

narikin

New member
I would like to see Rodenstock announce a couple of companions to its amazing 90mm Yellow banded HR-Digaron. That lens is so awesome it makes every other MF lens seem just 'ok'.

A 120 or 135mm version with 140/150mm image circle, for 6 way stitch, would be wonderful.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
I've got to imagine that the real focus of Alpa's attention these days is on the FPS series and accessories and interfaces for that platform. They see this as their universal camera and the way of the future. I could easily see them adding more lens mounts with automation support and more software products to drive the camera too.

I guess we'll find out soon enough!
 

gerald.d

Well-known member
I've got to imagine that the real focus of Alpa's attention these days is on the FPS series and accessories and interfaces for that platform. They see this as their universal camera and the way of the future. I could easily see them adding more lens mounts with automation support and more software products to drive the camera too.

I guess we'll find out soon enough!
Out of interest, which lens mounts are you after Graham?

The existing Canon mount opens up most lenses (albeit, manual control).

I'd love better insight into which lenses cover which sensors. ALPA did a great article a while back on this, but there are so many more lenses of potential interest out there.

I'm still waiting for confirmation on whether the Nikon 14-24 covers the IQ250 sensor at 14mm, but not got a response from Stefan yet on that. (That would be equivalent of the Canon 17mm TSE on IQ180, so very much of interest to me!)

Kind regards,

Gerald.
 

vjbelle

Well-known member
I would like to see Rodenstock announce a couple of companions to its amazing 90mm Yellow banded HR-Digaron. That lens is so awesome it makes every other MF lens seem just 'ok'.

A 120 or 135mm version with 140/150mm image circle, for 6 way stitch, would be wonderful.
Its good to hear such glowing feedback regarding the new Rody 90. I own the 100 Schneider which is my most used lens and is very sharp but probably not in the same league as the Rody. Time to do some comparisons.....

Victor
 
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